It’s not so much a myth, as an unobtainable goal that should be strived for. Like perfection. One can never be perfect, but one can always be better. There are such things as facts, and accuracy in describing them.
To say objectivity is a myth, seems to suggest nobody has any responsibility to try to accurately represent any facts. If someone claims blue light has a wavelength of 150nm, is that a perfectly valid opinion? Do lies exist?
You’re being a little too binary about this. The point isn’t that if objectivity is a myth then lies don’t exist, the statement is meant to challenge the idea that there is one side to a story. Hell in the US we basically say “there are two sides to each story,” when that isn’t true either.
Example: when did WWII start? Well, depends on who you ask. The Polish will tell you one thing, the French another, the Chinese will definitely tell you something different, because for them it began when Japan invaded Manchuria and had basically nothing to do with Germany. No one is wrong, but there isn’t one objective answer. That’s the point here. We have to consider multiple, sometimes somewhat competing narratives that still somehow don’t contradict each other. They can be acknowledged and integrated into a complex narrative. But we often want to reduce things, it’s a natural human tendency.
So whenever I see someone say something like “well Wikipedia is biased,“ well yeah, no shit. But that doesn’t mean anything. You account for the different narratives and perspectives people have, the different lenses through which they view the world, and you come to a conclusion. Going “I won’t be satisfied until I have an unbiased source” is not productive, and you would be surprised how many people act like that is the bar.
There’s a dry but still interesting work called That Noble Dream that is a pretty seminal historiographical work which covers “the objectivity question.”
But a lot of things are facts. You can’t say for a fact WW2 started at this date and time, because WW2 itself is just a convenient (though undefined) label for a collection of event’s. As you pointed out, you can pick a specific event, and place a factual time and date for it happening though. That would be objective. Or you could factually state that WW2 started in the 20 century, and avoid having to choose any more specific time.
While it might not be possible to be unbiased, it is always possible to be less biased. The way to do that is to understand the difference between facts and judgements, and avoid judgments where ever possible.
Wild might not be possible to be unbiased, it is always possible to be less biased
I agree sort of. We shouldn’t attempt to be “less biased,” we have to “account for bias.” I know that sounds like I’m just being picky with words, but the semantics really do matter here. It’s why I’m bringing the subject up at all! Awareness of the problem is how we reduce its impact and increases the quality of our work.
I have a bias against certain political ideas. Nothing I do will ever remove that. But if I am transparent about it and find ways to counter balance it when possible, that is incredibly productive. See what I mean?
As for the 20th century example the issue is that’s just too broad to be useful for much meaningful discussion. You’re incredibly limited by that.
I’d also like to point out that I never said there’s no such thing as a fact! “Historical fact” is not “history.” “WWII occurred” is an historical fact. But it’s not history until you discuss the who, what, when, where, why, and how.
It’s not so much a myth, as an unobtainable goal that should be strived for. Like perfection. One can never be perfect, but one can always be better. There are such things as facts, and accuracy in describing them.
To say objectivity is a myth, seems to suggest nobody has any responsibility to try to accurately represent any facts. If someone claims blue light has a wavelength of 150nm, is that a perfectly valid opinion? Do lies exist?
You’re being a little too binary about this. The point isn’t that if objectivity is a myth then lies don’t exist, the statement is meant to challenge the idea that there is one side to a story. Hell in the US we basically say “there are two sides to each story,” when that isn’t true either.
Example: when did WWII start? Well, depends on who you ask. The Polish will tell you one thing, the French another, the Chinese will definitely tell you something different, because for them it began when Japan invaded Manchuria and had basically nothing to do with Germany. No one is wrong, but there isn’t one objective answer. That’s the point here. We have to consider multiple, sometimes somewhat competing narratives that still somehow don’t contradict each other. They can be acknowledged and integrated into a complex narrative. But we often want to reduce things, it’s a natural human tendency.
So whenever I see someone say something like “well Wikipedia is biased,“ well yeah, no shit. But that doesn’t mean anything. You account for the different narratives and perspectives people have, the different lenses through which they view the world, and you come to a conclusion. Going “I won’t be satisfied until I have an unbiased source” is not productive, and you would be surprised how many people act like that is the bar.
There’s a dry but still interesting work called That Noble Dream that is a pretty seminal historiographical work which covers “the objectivity question.”
But a lot of things are facts. You can’t say for a fact WW2 started at this date and time, because WW2 itself is just a convenient (though undefined) label for a collection of event’s. As you pointed out, you can pick a specific event, and place a factual time and date for it happening though. That would be objective. Or you could factually state that WW2 started in the 20 century, and avoid having to choose any more specific time.
While it might not be possible to be unbiased, it is always possible to be less biased. The way to do that is to understand the difference between facts and judgements, and avoid judgments where ever possible.
I agree sort of. We shouldn’t attempt to be “less biased,” we have to “account for bias.” I know that sounds like I’m just being picky with words, but the semantics really do matter here. It’s why I’m bringing the subject up at all! Awareness of the problem is how we reduce its impact and increases the quality of our work.
I have a bias against certain political ideas. Nothing I do will ever remove that. But if I am transparent about it and find ways to counter balance it when possible, that is incredibly productive. See what I mean?
As for the 20th century example the issue is that’s just too broad to be useful for much meaningful discussion. You’re incredibly limited by that.
I’d also like to point out that I never said there’s no such thing as a fact! “Historical fact” is not “history.” “WWII occurred” is an historical fact. But it’s not history until you discuss the who, what, when, where, why, and how.