In some states refusing the circus act is an automatic DUI. Even if you ask for a blood test. We have the technology to just do away with it. And dyslexic people can drive just fine while fucking up the numbers and alphabet. It just needs to go.
that is pretty silly, though idk much about the specifics of it, really it should only mean you get arrested/detained, it shouldn’t be possible to charge you with something that isnt proven.
It shouldn’t. And yet it is. That’s not even the worst use of that though. Cops can beat you up and arrest you for resisting arrest at any time. And that generally comes with jail time.
well i mean resisting arrest is quite literally illegal, so that would make sense, considering that if you’re evading arrest, you probably have a reason to be doing so.
Though you also have to resist arrest for that one to happen. Otherwise it’s unlawful use of force.
in reality they can roll up to you and tell you that you’re under arrest, which means you have to comply legally. The actual proceedings of being arrested and charged take place later, so that’s where that would be disputed.
If you were to resist, that’s literally illegal. Therefore police have the right to use reasonable force against you (which is often defined as a proportion of your resistive force)
If you don’t resist, and they do use force on you, there is almost definitely a case that you can hold against them for unreasonable force.
Mmhmm. Sure. And the second that cop gets on the stand and swears they did nothing wrong you’re going to jail.
If the only charge is resisting arrest then it’s a corrupt abuse of power on its face. What you’re saying sounds reasonable as a thought experiment but in reality we have warrants for a reason. We have constitutional rules about due process explicitly because these powers were already abused.
Allowing police to just declare you’re going to jail for a year is a massive fucking breach of our rights.
If the only charge is resisting arrest then it’s a corrupt abuse of power on its face.
i mean, kind of? Like sometimes i’m sure it is. But fleeing in it of itself, is a crime. That’s illegal. Maybe it should be legal, or highly contestable in court i suppose, but if fleeing wasn’t illegal, you could just run from police, they can’t stop you.
I mean yeah sure there’s potential for abuse, that’s why body cameras are a thing now. Every cruiser to my knowledge is fitted with a dashcam as well as a rear seat cam. It’d be pretty fucking hard to bullshit that one unless you’re actually resisting. And by this point we’re in a court of law and the only thing that matters here is what’s proven, And even if they do lie, they can still get bit in the ass later because it’s literally a fucking crime. (or at least, that should be the case.)
This happened fairly recently even.
They’re not declaring that you’re going to jail, they’re stating that you’re under arrest, which means that you are until dismissed, under the jurisdiction of the state, or specifically here, the officer arresting you.
Though to be clear here, if this is a thing that does happen, which i’m sure it does, yes that is a bad thing, and it is wrong, and it shouldn’t be possible or legal. I’m just reiterating what the law is here. Even then literally all you have to do to not get hit with these charges is to comply. Which in most cases, super trivial.
In the case of a DUI here, in the event that you can’t perform field sobriety, you’re either brought back to the station where you can have a blood test done, which will demonstrate your sobriety pretty well. Like it’s important to remember here that there are many factors to a DUI traffic stop specifically.
Usually you pull someone over for erratic driving (on account of being drunk) which is already, not legal to a degree. Usually they’ll have some sort of alcohol on their breath (to be fair, you can just lie about this) generally there is an alcoholic beverage near them, empty or partially full. Having full unopened cans, as well as empty cans isn’t in itself illegal to my knowledge. Signs of impairment, which SFST usually works to elaborate on. Breath testing, which inaccurate is another factor, and notably, blood draw.
We’ve seen similar cases to this before, there was a recent one where a kid got stopped due to a tagging issue on his car, insurance or something or other. Officer initiated a traffic stop, as is common practice, dude didn’t know what the fuck was happening, and the officer was like “bro i think ur drunk” TL;DR he got pulled into the station, had his blood drawn, wasn’t drunk, and then left. That officer was just a dumbass. (though to be clear here, i don’t see anything saying he was jailed, just that he was arrested, not charged with any time or anything)
Are there problems with the system? Yeah probably, is there a good solution to this problem? Maybe. That’s not my jurisdiction here. My point is there there are multiple places here where this issue gets caught, and fixed appropriately, and this does happen, routinely.
But fleeing in it of itself, is a crime. … but if fleeing wasn’t illegal, you could just run from police, they can’t stop you.
Well that’s not true. Obviously the police can chase you and arrest you. We’ve already established they can place you under arrest at any time for any reason. Why does it matter if they get a workout first? Why is fleeing a crime in and of itself? Shouldn’t the actual crime be the crime? Trying not to have your life exploded is just a human reaction. Burglary is a crime. Fleeing is human. Criminalizing humanity is just another way to abuse power.
Body Cameras are nice. When they’re aimed correctly, or turned on, or even exist in that police department. But the problem remains that a police officer need do nothing but accuse you and rough you up. Even with a body camera that gets a conviction. Unsurprisingly 5 guys pretending to wrestle a 100 pound drug addict sells to a jury. Compliance does not matter. You can be the most compliant person in the world. They can accuse you of letting your body become dead weight. If you try to help them then you’re actively resisting. Either way gets you face down with a taser in your ass.
And yeah the Brady list, for cops caught lying in court. A good district fires those cops. An average district just has a different cop go to court and lie for them, and a bad district just puts them on the stand anyways. I’m not sure what you thought the punishment was but for many police forces in the US the “punishment” is not having to put on your dress uniform to go to court anymore.
Having empty cans is “open containers” in every state I’ve lived in.
Your thought experiments are nice, but the police aren’t acting in good faith. The laws and thought experiments assume police act in good faith and it’s just not true.
In some states refusing the circus act is an automatic DUI. Even if you ask for a blood test. We have the technology to just do away with it. And dyslexic people can drive just fine while fucking up the numbers and alphabet. It just needs to go.
that is pretty silly, though idk much about the specifics of it, really it should only mean you get arrested/detained, it shouldn’t be possible to charge you with something that isnt proven.
It shouldn’t. And yet it is. That’s not even the worst use of that though. Cops can beat you up and arrest you for resisting arrest at any time. And that generally comes with jail time.
well i mean resisting arrest is quite literally illegal, so that would make sense, considering that if you’re evading arrest, you probably have a reason to be doing so.
Though you also have to resist arrest for that one to happen. Otherwise it’s unlawful use of force.
Sure. Technically. In reality they can literally just punch you and arrest you.
in reality they can roll up to you and tell you that you’re under arrest, which means you have to comply legally. The actual proceedings of being arrested and charged take place later, so that’s where that would be disputed.
If you were to resist, that’s literally illegal. Therefore police have the right to use reasonable force against you (which is often defined as a proportion of your resistive force)
If you don’t resist, and they do use force on you, there is almost definitely a case that you can hold against them for unreasonable force.
Mmhmm. Sure. And the second that cop gets on the stand and swears they did nothing wrong you’re going to jail.
If the only charge is resisting arrest then it’s a corrupt abuse of power on its face. What you’re saying sounds reasonable as a thought experiment but in reality we have warrants for a reason. We have constitutional rules about due process explicitly because these powers were already abused.
Allowing police to just declare you’re going to jail for a year is a massive fucking breach of our rights.
i mean, kind of? Like sometimes i’m sure it is. But fleeing in it of itself, is a crime. That’s illegal. Maybe it should be legal, or highly contestable in court i suppose, but if fleeing wasn’t illegal, you could just run from police, they can’t stop you.
I mean yeah sure there’s potential for abuse, that’s why body cameras are a thing now. Every cruiser to my knowledge is fitted with a dashcam as well as a rear seat cam. It’d be pretty fucking hard to bullshit that one unless you’re actually resisting. And by this point we’re in a court of law and the only thing that matters here is what’s proven, And even if they do lie, they can still get bit in the ass later because it’s literally a fucking crime. (or at least, that should be the case.)
This happened fairly recently even.
They’re not declaring that you’re going to jail, they’re stating that you’re under arrest, which means that you are until dismissed, under the jurisdiction of the state, or specifically here, the officer arresting you.
Though to be clear here, if this is a thing that does happen, which i’m sure it does, yes that is a bad thing, and it is wrong, and it shouldn’t be possible or legal. I’m just reiterating what the law is here. Even then literally all you have to do to not get hit with these charges is to comply. Which in most cases, super trivial.
In the case of a DUI here, in the event that you can’t perform field sobriety, you’re either brought back to the station where you can have a blood test done, which will demonstrate your sobriety pretty well. Like it’s important to remember here that there are many factors to a DUI traffic stop specifically.
Usually you pull someone over for erratic driving (on account of being drunk) which is already, not legal to a degree. Usually they’ll have some sort of alcohol on their breath (to be fair, you can just lie about this) generally there is an alcoholic beverage near them, empty or partially full. Having full unopened cans, as well as empty cans isn’t in itself illegal to my knowledge. Signs of impairment, which SFST usually works to elaborate on. Breath testing, which inaccurate is another factor, and notably, blood draw.
We’ve seen similar cases to this before, there was a recent one where a kid got stopped due to a tagging issue on his car, insurance or something or other. Officer initiated a traffic stop, as is common practice, dude didn’t know what the fuck was happening, and the officer was like “bro i think ur drunk” TL;DR he got pulled into the station, had his blood drawn, wasn’t drunk, and then left. That officer was just a dumbass. (though to be clear here, i don’t see anything saying he was jailed, just that he was arrested, not charged with any time or anything)
Are there problems with the system? Yeah probably, is there a good solution to this problem? Maybe. That’s not my jurisdiction here. My point is there there are multiple places here where this issue gets caught, and fixed appropriately, and this does happen, routinely.
Well that’s not true. Obviously the police can chase you and arrest you. We’ve already established they can place you under arrest at any time for any reason. Why does it matter if they get a workout first? Why is fleeing a crime in and of itself? Shouldn’t the actual crime be the crime? Trying not to have your life exploded is just a human reaction. Burglary is a crime. Fleeing is human. Criminalizing humanity is just another way to abuse power.
Body Cameras are nice. When they’re aimed correctly, or turned on, or even exist in that police department. But the problem remains that a police officer need do nothing but accuse you and rough you up. Even with a body camera that gets a conviction. Unsurprisingly 5 guys pretending to wrestle a 100 pound drug addict sells to a jury. Compliance does not matter. You can be the most compliant person in the world. They can accuse you of letting your body become dead weight. If you try to help them then you’re actively resisting. Either way gets you face down with a taser in your ass.
And yeah the Brady list, for cops caught lying in court. A good district fires those cops. An average district just has a different cop go to court and lie for them, and a bad district just puts them on the stand anyways. I’m not sure what you thought the punishment was but for many police forces in the US the “punishment” is not having to put on your dress uniform to go to court anymore.
Having empty cans is “open containers” in every state I’ve lived in.
Your thought experiments are nice, but the police aren’t acting in good faith. The laws and thought experiments assume police act in good faith and it’s just not true.