Why do we ask for donations so often? Because it’s important! As KDE becomes more successful and an increasing number of people use our software, our costs grow as well: Web and server hostin…
People have put work into this, for free. And the moment they ask for support, you immediately bring the pitchforks out, over a singular pop-up you can permanently disable? That’s just plain disrespectful, at the very least
Unfortunately, there has always been the issue that a not-insignificant percentage of users of FOSS software believe the FREE part means “free as in beer” and take umbrage when asked to contribute.
I’ve long been a proponent (and I know I’m in a minority) that has advocated for a shift in the marketing of FOSS applications from “donation based” to “value based”. Meaning that the expectation is that if you enjoy the software, you pay an amount that you believe is commensurate to your use. This is voluntarily of course…if you can’t pay, than please use it and enjoy it. But those who can pay, should pay…at least a little bit, to offset the costs for those who can’t.
It’s more or less that the wording of FOSS apps needs to change so that you are expected to contribute if you can.
Just my opinion. Like I said, I know I’m in the minority. Just not a fan of the percentage of users that has always existed that (falsely) think that asking for money for your project is somehow anathema to the Open Source ideal and whine whenever they’re asked to contribute.
The full saying is “Free as in Speech, not Free as in Beer”
Basically the “Free” in free means that it’s free to do with as you please, modify, etc… But not free as in “here’s a free product…like getting a free beer”
That’s also confusing and it is not the full saying. The full saying is “free as in free speech, not free beer”.
From the FSF website:
Free software is a matter of liberty, not price. Think of “free” as in “free speech”, not as in “free beer”. Free software is a matter of the users’ freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software.
Maybe donate 50 cents for every hour you used the software and it was useful to you.
That would be 1000 €$ per year if you work with Linux full time.
Let’s see some commercial software:
Microsoft Office 365 is 70 $€ per year. Adobe Suite around 700 $€ per year. IntelliJ IDEA about 170 $€ per year. Affinity Suite is 170 $€ once. Reaper is 60 €$ for a discounted license. Full featured media player like Elmedia costs 20 $€. BBEdit costs 60.
The FOSS windows and Mac FTP client Cyberduck asks for a minimum 10 €$ donation. It won’t prompt you for a donation if you bought a license. The Duck applications are all pretty nice.
While I absolutely agree with what you are trying to say and donate to kde myself already. The issue with a lot of comments like yours is that the examples you use are almost always commercial software that already only see’s limited use. I get value out of non commerical use applications such as dolphin, kate, konsole, and kdeconnect. Finding examples of popular paid versions of those applications would go a long way in my opinion because it would be something that more people can relate to.
The problem I see with the examples you are giving are the same problems I see when someone uses those examples as reasons why they can’t switch to linux in the first place. And that is the fact that while those programs are popular. They aren’t used by the vast majority of people who don’t have a work related need to use them. Half the people that claim it as an excuse probably don’t actually use those programs as well.
Your examples such as Cyberduc, Elmedia, and BBBedit are your stronger examples. Again just my opinion.
I like that terminology. I use some very high quality, high visibility FOSS software and sometimes feel bad that I more frequently donate to smaller projects that bring me value by filling a specific want or need that no one else is working on.
I’m not against the idea, but I do think it’s a bit unfair. There are dozens of projects KDE relies on that never even get the chance to ask for donations this way, simply because they don’t need a GUI.
I believe KDE should at least offer to share the donations with other projects, projects that would otherwise have no voice. Something like the old Humble Bundle donation method would work really well, and let users to choose how their money is allocated.
While I understand where you are coming from. That goes for a lot of projects in general. Not to mention that KDE is literally an example of the thing you are talking about. KDE has an entire ecosystem of libraries that anyone can use called kde frameworks with many examples of these libraries being used on various projects large and small outside of KDE. They don’t see a dime from this either. I recall a conference on TechHut’s youtube channel spotting KDE’s frameworks in the wild being used by companies at the event.
The claim that more users increases costs for the KDE project in any meaningful way is another thing that might be disputed. The examples given do not seem convincing.
So the reason it makes me uneasy is that at the same time as I do want KDE to succeed, I do not want this tactic of begging for money in annoying little on-screen pop-ups to succeed. If it does, then perhaps it might spread to other free software projects. If all of the hundreds of them that go into a linux distribution start feeling free to make their demands it will be a real mess. As some old philosopher said: To judge the morality of an action, consider what would happen if everyone did it.
I remain an Xfce user. They also accept donations.
And its mere presence will ensure I don’t give them any more money. The core concept of inserting any ad in an OS is not behavior I am willing to reward.
So, asking you to VOLUNTARILY donate IF YOU WANT to with a pop-up you can simply ignore and/or disable is advertising? I don’t understand… I mean, they give you a product for free, full of good features and updated regularly, and the moment they ask you to donate, again, IF YOU WANT to, it’s considered advertising…
Those assholes! They should make an OS for free!!! How dare they ask for support?!?!
No one forces you to support them, if it’s so annoying just disable it. I wonder if makes you happy work for someone for free… Hope it will happen to you so you’ll understand how bad it is :)
That’s an interesting logic. You do realise that at least 50% of the groceries in your local store are likely to have been advertised somewhere. Guess you should stop buying groceries too…
You pretty clearly don’t know what a call to action is, or an ad is, because “please give money” is very obviously a call to action, and many ads make no effort whatsoever to sell any product.
A lot of people here have such a bizarre stance.
People have put work into this, for free. And the moment they ask for support, you immediately bring the pitchforks out, over a singular pop-up you can permanently disable? That’s just plain disrespectful, at the very least
Unfortunately, there has always been the issue that a not-insignificant percentage of users of FOSS software believe the FREE part means “free as in beer” and take umbrage when asked to contribute.
I’ve long been a proponent (and I know I’m in a minority) that has advocated for a shift in the marketing of FOSS applications from “donation based” to “value based”. Meaning that the expectation is that if you enjoy the software, you pay an amount that you believe is commensurate to your use. This is voluntarily of course…if you can’t pay, than please use it and enjoy it. But those who can pay, should pay…at least a little bit, to offset the costs for those who can’t.
It’s more or less that the wording of FOSS apps needs to change so that you are expected to contribute if you can.
Just my opinion. Like I said, I know I’m in the minority. Just not a fan of the percentage of users that has always existed that (falsely) think that asking for money for your project is somehow anathema to the Open Source ideal and whine whenever they’re asked to contribute.
Also what the hell is up with everyone saying “free as beer”?
Beer isn’t free!
The full saying is “Free as in Speech, not Free as in Beer”
Basically the “Free” in free means that it’s free to do with as you please, modify, etc… But not free as in “here’s a free product…like getting a free beer”
That’s also confusing and it is not the full saying. The full saying is “free as in free speech, not free beer”.
From the FSF website:
I have over €1500 donated to opensource projects.
I have only once bought a commercial software license worth €7/lifetime.
Maybe donate 50 cents for every hour you used the software and it was useful to you.
That would be 1000 €$ per year if you work with Linux full time.
Let’s see some commercial software:
Microsoft Office 365 is 70 $€ per year. Adobe Suite around 700 $€ per year. IntelliJ IDEA about 170 $€ per year. Affinity Suite is 170 $€ once. Reaper is 60 €$ for a discounted license. Full featured media player like Elmedia costs 20 $€. BBEdit costs 60.
The FOSS windows and Mac FTP client Cyberduck asks for a minimum 10 €$ donation. It won’t prompt you for a donation if you bought a license. The Duck applications are all pretty nice.
While I absolutely agree with what you are trying to say and donate to kde myself already. The issue with a lot of comments like yours is that the examples you use are almost always commercial software that already only see’s limited use. I get value out of non commerical use applications such as dolphin, kate, konsole, and kdeconnect. Finding examples of popular paid versions of those applications would go a long way in my opinion because it would be something that more people can relate to.
The problem I see with the examples you are giving are the same problems I see when someone uses those examples as reasons why they can’t switch to linux in the first place. And that is the fact that while those programs are popular. They aren’t used by the vast majority of people who don’t have a work related need to use them. Half the people that claim it as an excuse probably don’t actually use those programs as well.
Your examples such as Cyberduc, Elmedia, and BBBedit are your stronger examples. Again just my opinion.
They make more apps than just Cyberduck?
Mountain Duck and Cryptomator
I like that terminology. I use some very high quality, high visibility FOSS software and sometimes feel bad that I more frequently donate to smaller projects that bring me value by filling a specific want or need that no one else is working on.
I’m not against the idea, but I do think it’s a bit unfair. There are dozens of projects KDE relies on that never even get the chance to ask for donations this way, simply because they don’t need a GUI.
I believe KDE should at least offer to share the donations with other projects, projects that would otherwise have no voice. Something like the old Humble Bundle donation method would work really well, and let users to choose how their money is allocated.
While I understand where you are coming from. That goes for a lot of projects in general. Not to mention that KDE is literally an example of the thing you are talking about. KDE has an entire ecosystem of libraries that anyone can use called kde frameworks with many examples of these libraries being used on various projects large and small outside of KDE. They don’t see a dime from this either. I recall a conference on TechHut’s youtube channel spotting KDE’s frameworks in the wild being used by companies at the event.
And KHTML! Basically, KDE work is the foundation of the browser engines behind Chromium and Safari.
The one change I would make would be adding a “never” button to the notification so you don’t have to disable it in the settings if you don’t want it
Or actually “Don’t show again” would probably be better phrasing
From experience with Windows “freeware” some of us have seen what happens when such pop-up notices become commonplace. It is not pretty.
This isn’t Windows, and this isn’t freeware
This isnt freeware.
“Free” in free software is free like free speech, not free as in beer.
This is one of the places where english fails. Libre vs gratis
Sorry, I was assuming everyone knew that. Should’ve said “nagware” instead.
If you don’t like it, don’t use it.
Then you also don’t cause any more cost to the KDE project.
The claim that more users increases costs for the KDE project in any meaningful way is another thing that might be disputed. The examples given do not seem convincing.
So the reason it makes me uneasy is that at the same time as I do want KDE to succeed, I do not want this tactic of begging for money in annoying little on-screen pop-ups to succeed. If it does, then perhaps it might spread to other free software projects. If all of the hundreds of them that go into a linux distribution start feeling free to make their demands it will be a real mess. As some old philosopher said: To judge the morality of an action, consider what would happen if everyone did it.
I remain an Xfce user. They also accept donations.
It’s not complicated.
It’s an ad.
There’s no version of advertising I will ever be OK with.
Not an ad. No one is trying to sell you anything.
(If you get the notification) you’re already using their product.
Yes, it is an ad. Any call to action is an ad.
And its mere presence will ensure I don’t give them any more money. The core concept of inserting any ad in an OS is not behavior I am willing to reward.
This is not an OS behaviour. KDE is a desktop environment.
If it bothers you so much, remove the DE and use the command line, full time
So, asking you to VOLUNTARILY donate IF YOU WANT to with a pop-up you can simply ignore and/or disable is advertising? I don’t understand… I mean, they give you a product for free, full of good features and updated regularly, and the moment they ask you to donate, again, IF YOU WANT to, it’s considered advertising…
You’re so sad, dude.
Yes. It is literally impossible for an organization asking for money not to be an ad.
And yes, showing me a single ad once means I never give them money again. I am not OK with ads.
Don’t use KDE then🤷♂️
Those assholes! They should make an OS for free!!! How dare they ask for support?!?!
No one forces you to support them, if it’s so annoying just disable it. I wonder if makes you happy work for someone for free… Hope it will happen to you so you’ll understand how bad it is :)
Cya
so lemmy on their join-lemmy.org site have this, https://join-lemmy.org/donate
Goodbye?
lmao, good one!
and then he down votes my comment
That’s an interesting logic. You do realise that at least 50% of the groceries in your local store are likely to have been advertised somewhere. Guess you should stop buying groceries too…
Drink some water!
…was that an ad?
Stop it, you’re scaring him!
Ads try to sell you something, there is no “call to action”. Here, there is nothing to sell, so by definition it’s not an ad.
They are just asking you if you’d like to help them in providing you the product you’re already using.
You pretty clearly don’t know what a call to action is, or an ad is, because “please give money” is very obviously a call to action, and many ads make no effort whatsoever to sell any product.
Then just not use it? You could even ask for a refund, I’m sure they’ll give it to you.
Your entitlement is Karen level.
You’re advertising your opinion here, is that okay?