- cross-posted to:
- linux_gaming@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- linux_gaming@lemmy.ml
A set of merge requests were opened that would effectively drop X.Org (X11) session support for the GNOME desktop and once that code is removed making it a Wayland-only desktop environment.
Going along with Fedora 40 looking to disable the GNOME X11 session support (and also making KDE Plasma 6 Wayland-only for Fedora), upstream GNOME is evaluating the prospect of disabling and then removing their X11 session support.
Some concerns were raised already how this could impact downstream desktops like Budgie and Pantheon that haven’t yet fully transitioned over to Wayland. In any event we’ll see where the discussions lead but it’s sure looking like 2024 will be the year that GNOME goes Wayland-only.
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Time for Nvidia to step up their driver game… shrugs
I think they already have. I held off on Wayland on my main machine for a long time due to Nvidia issues. For example, I was getting rendering issues where some windows/popups would be totally invisible until I moused over them. Those issues are now gone, and I’ve been running Wayland for the last few months with no problems at all.
yeah, it got better, but still not good enough
i still have issues here and there, i hope they step up.
Oh hey, it’s this months regularly scheduled Wayland drama!
They still haven’t solved the problem of a Gnome Shell crash taking down my entire session with it. I need to be able to restart the shell independently of the Wayland compositor for me to switch.
KDE Plasma will get this feature soon, I hope GNOME Shell will follow their approach.
I feel like if Gnome Shell is crashing enough for this to be a problem then it crashing is the actual problem.
Yep. I’m not even using Wayland. Every other day its “Oops, there was a fucky wucky!” And I have to log out. I’m on Cinnamon for now.
ubuntu already compile gnome with the fix(edit: i confused it with triple-buffering, that ubuntu compile gnome with, idk if ubuntu compile gnome with the fix to don’t take down the entire session), but the merge request is there, and it work, idk with gnome didn’t merged it still, maybe other priorities?Do you have a link to this?
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Well let’s hope that massively improves the Wayland experience then. I tried it last week and still had flickering screens, laggy windows, and crashing games. In the current state it would be unacceptable for me to switch
depends if nvidia care about improving wayland, they don’t really have any reason to care today. Maybe if people start purchasing hardware from their competition enough.
I’m having a perfect time on intel at least. Though I have no video game requirements.
My problem is that I’m kinda tied to CUDA and thus Nvidia. If AMD’s ROCm would’ve been a bit better and supported on consumer GPUs I would’ve went for that.
But having a non-NVIDIA card in order to use the latest GNOME doesn’t seem reasonable to me. Then again, maybe the pressure will finally make NVIDIA get their shit together
considering how willing they were to throw vendors like EVGA under the bus, trying to figure out what pressure Nvidia listens too might be a challenge in of of itself …
I’m gonna assume you can use Cuda, without driving the display with nvidia. You just need a motherboard with onboard Intel
That seems like a rather extreme work-around for Wayland proponent delusions. Buying an nvidia card and then not using it for graphics at all.
I was offering solutions to ops problem, is that not allowed?
Funny that people are downvoting when this is what hybrid graphics in laptops do. The iGPU to drive the display and heavier tasks get offloaded to the dGPU
That’s gonna make gaming a lot harder though. And I’m on an AMD CPU. I’m not sure whether it has an internal GPU even. My point is that they’ll lose a lot of users by forcing Wayland. I’m not dure Nvidia will care for such pressure
Yeah, but kde is also heading down the same path. The world can’t keep maintaining a legacy stack forever just because a private company doesn’t care about the problem.
I know people want things to just work and don’t care about the rest but the reality is that unpaid volunteers do 99% of the work and I don’t really think they should have to do extra work just because of nvidia. Maybe nvidia users get left behind, that would suck. I hope nvidia choose to fix their shit instead.
I agree that volunteers shouldn’t have to maintain legacy just because a private company doesn’t have their shit together. But the reality is that a lot of people have Nvidia hardware. If GNOME and KDE will not work on the most popular gaming GPU brand, we’re going to push away a lot of people who are trying to start with Linux but encounter a broken mess.
The solution is: stop making yourself dependent on proprietary companies. You always loose if you wait for someone else rather than taking action. If GNOME wants to improve then it’s pointless for them to wait for Nvidia. Even if that means loosing some Nvidia fans
Sounds like you don’t agree that
“volunteers shouldn’t have to maintain legacy just because a private company doesn’t have their shit together”
you think they should, to avoid pushing people away.
I had the same problems until I switched to an AMD card. Since then it’s been smooth sailing in Wayland.
I had those issues with an old nvdia driver version, bun on the recent ones it works better.
Fix the issues with Wayland and everyone will happily make the switch.
Maybe this will help people finally make their apps work on Wayland. I hate so much to install a “privacy-friendly” software or even something related to security and discover it only works under X.
Seems to me that “nothing I try works with Wayland” is not a good point where you want to cut off support for X11. That only means the software doesn’t work with either. Software doesn’t magically gain support for something else just because you cut off the old stuff.
That’s why I said this will help developers consider making their app work under Wayland, not magically gain support.
So what is the name the new GNOME that supports X11?
Edit: I appreciate the alternative desktops, and they are a great reminder (feel free to keep them coming.)
My point was that open source projects tend to fork every time a less than popular decision is made. Often, removing support for something is seen as a less popular decision. I anticipate GNOME will fork over this. I have no inside knowledge and will not be leading the charge.KDE, I suppose.
For now, they’re also slowly weaning off of it.
mate?
Guys, am I the only one?
I dont care about X11. But some weird things just dont work.
I have a stupid AMD mobile GPU which seems to neither support virtualization, nor Wine games.
Also, I only had one keyboard/mouse input at a time, so either shift or running for example. People told me thats because of XWayland.
Is that a thing? This would be a total dealbreaker
AFAIK wine requires no special hardware support. It isn’t virtualizing anything, it just translates directx calls into OpenGL/Vulkan calls executed by your normal driver. If wine doesn’t work I suspect it’s something else
Yes I know. Not sure what it was, installed rocm-opencl, maybe that is helping??
I have to growl at someone
Until barrier/synergy works on wayland, I’ve got to stick with X
Input Leap? Now that Barrier is no longer being developed, Input Leap is the main fork, and GNOME 45 just added support for it on Wayland.
Hadn’t heard of this. The Readme says not to use this as it isn’t stable?
give it a try, maybe the devs aren’t confortable to call it stable, but it can work, only testing to know
For me at least, waynergy doesn’t solve my issues, as I host my kb/m on Linux and share with a Windows PC (no builds for windows, and I can’t get it to work with barrier for some reason) I ended up just buying a USB switch which works, but it’s way slower … but I love hyprland so it’s a net gain I guess
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A set of merge requests were opened that would effectively drop X.Org (X11) session support for the GNOME desktop and once that code is removed making it a Wayland-only desktop environment.
Going along with Fedora 40 looking to disable the GNOME X11 session support (and also making KDE Plasma 6 Wayland-only for Fedora), upstream GNOME is evaluating the prospect of disabling and then removing their X11 session support.
This merge request would remove the X11 session targets within gnome-session: "This is the first step towards deprecating the x11 session, the systemd targets are removed, but the x11 functionality is still there in so you can restore the x11 session by installing the targets in the appropriate place on your own.
That was followed by this merge request that would land later on – more than likely, one cycle later – for actually removing the X11 session code.
Some concerns were raised already how this could impact downstream desktops like Budgie and Pantheon that haven’t yet fully transitioned over to Wayland.
In any event we’ll see where the discussions lead but it’s sure looking like 2024 will be the year that GNOME goes Wayland-only.
The original article contains 254 words, the summary contains 193 words. Saved 24%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I thought Wayland still didn’t work with nvidia cards?
Its the opposite
Pretty sure Wayland does not just work with nvidia cards.
No its Nvidia that doesnt work with wayland, they need to fix their drivers.
Honestly don’t care who needs to fix something but “works with” is not that kind of relation. Either A works with B and B works with A or neither do. There certainly is no “opposite” involved here.
I think what youre looking for is do they work together
I think they mean Nvida cards don’t work with Wayland - i.e. it’s Nvidia’s fault.
I honestly don’t really care whose fault it is but it is a rather large part of the potential user base that would be cut off by this change.
It works, nowhere near as good as AMD but it works.
https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/Wayland/NVIDIA
https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Wayland/Nvidia somehow supports it even better
According to https://arewewaylandyet.com/ nouveau has support for wlroots and sway
Unpopular opinion but
WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE! Seriously. How hard is this rule to understand?
- Linus Torvalds
Forcing Nvidia to update drivers by breaking your system otherwise us not the correct way to do it.
That’s for the kernel. Userspace often breaks userspace.
Well, there are better reasons for getting rid of fossil software… Like xorg being a giant clusterhack :)
Still not convinced Wayland won’t end up the side-line fossil to be perfectly frank. It just isn’t compatible enough considering how long it has been developed and the “every compositor needs to essentially implement the whole protocol itself” model seems like a huge design flaw.
every compositor needs to essentially implement the whole protocol itself
This is also how X11 works if you choose not to use x.org… wayland is a protocol, the equivalent you’re looking for is wlroots.
If you use wlroots, you don’t have to do any of that.
As for why kde/wlroots/gnome are separate… x.org used to have multiple implementations too, until one took over and became used everywhere. Wlroots is the equivalent to x.org, and shares many implementation details with kde, gnome is the only odd one out, and both kde and gnomes implementations only exist because they came before wlroots.
the “every compositor needs to essentially implement the whole protocol itself” model seems like a huge design flaw.
It’s amazing that wayland have been developed for so long (even though work on the desktop ecosystem is more recent) and this misconception still exists, lemmy need to try to do something to solve Brandolini’s law .
Well, it would certainly help if you explained in what way that is a misconception. I mean obviously they can share part of the implementation via libraries but where else do you see that as a misconception?
Because X11 works the EXACT SAME WAY
That’s the kernel apis. Those have to be stable. Userland always changes much faster.
User space is not breaking often enough for nvidia users. If it’d break regularly maybe users would either buy something with proper support, or force nvidia to open their stuff so it can be maintained like the rest, and no longer is a roadblock for progress.
nvidia has open-drivers, it’s shit, but they have
(sometimes i go there to laugh)
maybe these push can make nvidia fix the problems
Sounds good!
That’s a hard work to try to be compatible with X11 and Wayland.
I hope that could simplify that.
They could just drop Wayland support if it is too much work.
But wayland is actually getting development and security updates and every single X11 dev moved onto it… that’s like saying we should drop electric cars for gas because there’s more gas stations right now.
It is more like saying we should drop hydrogen cars because they are a fundamentally flawed concept.
Except you can’t explain any fundamental flaws with wayland that don’t also apply to X11.
FOSS linux gods will bring it back the first week, change my mind
They haven’t brought it back by supporting x11 itself, I don’t see how this will be much different.
Effort is better spent making Wayland the X11 replacement it’s supposed to be.
