I often see watch enthusiasts here and on YouTube forgetting some essencial things:
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Watches are an object in which “The beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. It’s not brand name or bragging credentials that make a watch good or even the design. It’s the personal taste of each of us
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The price doesn’t make a watch better. The variety and styles of watches can appeal to everyone regardless of their budget. Despite this, people buying fashion watches or less expensive brands, still face backlash
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Mechanical watches are not always better than quartz and quartz isn’t always better than mechanical. They cater to different types of audience. Usually the community acts like mechanical is always inherently better.
All things considered, it’s wonderful that there’s a brand of watches out there that provides finish and quality that matches a Longines or JLC for a quarter of the price and it makes its own movements for mechanical watches: Seiko.
Seiko, is what the entire Swatch group no longer is. It’s a independent watchmaker. Their Grand Seiko models, rival and even surpass Rolex watches in finish, quality, dial textures and more.
If Seiko was a Swiss brand, it would be the world’s biggest and most valued watchmaker
Having said that, why is it then that there’s so so many complaints about: the glass type they use, the Quality control which fails slightly in like 1/1000 watches? Why does anyone think Citizen can beat Seiko when Citizen’s movements are now a long way from those of Seiko?
Why aren’t more people grateful that a brand like this even exists?
Brings me to the final point: - Watches don’t have to say “Swiss made” to be good. Something that despite true the community also acts like isn’t true.
Seiko isn’t an independent watchmaker.
Really? Explain that to me. They’re a group on their own
Seiko Watch Company is owned by Seiko Epson (the electronics and printer company), which also owns Orient and some other watch brands.
Ah. Well that definitely changes things to me. I mostly know that corporation for printers not watches believe it or not
First: I love seiko. Great products, incredible history, fine watches across the board.
Regarding fashion watches, I just think they are, for the most part, a rip off and that’s why people look down on them. They look like what they’re not (a quality product). The classic argument is that you could get a much better seiko for the price.
The mechanical/quartz debate doesn’t exist in my mind. There are fine examples of both at any price range and they’re ultimately very different things doing the same thing… very differently. You buy a quartz for simplicity and accuracy, you buy a mechanical because you have a fondness for intricate machines, you buy a super quartz because you love technology… they all deserve love.
Now seiko finished like JLC? Nowhere near. A luxury item stands miles away from a consumer good. Yew, grand seiko does rolex quality and finish, but they are their own entity now - I’m not sure you can just throw them under the seiko umbrella.
But again, seiko is amazing. They do ALL their parts in house. Crystals, quartz and batteries included.
I don’t think a lot of watch enthusiasts look down on the brand, it’s got everything a good watchmaker should have.
Yew, grand seiko does rolex quality and finish, but they are their own entity now - I’m not sure you can just throw them under the seiko umbrella.
This isn’t true, Grand Seiko is just a Seiko brand name, like Presage, or Prospex.
It was spun off by seiko in 2017. It has been effectively an independent company for some time now.
Grand Seiko isn’t a company, so it can’t be spun off. It’s a brand name owned by Seiko Watch Corp. In 2017 Seiko changed how they marketed the GS brand, and dropped the co-branding on GS watches.
Around that time, Seiko also created new companies to distribute GS watches in some markets, like GS USA, which might be what you are thinking of.
No, it’s an independent brand since 2017.
It’s now related to seiko the same way omega is related to swatch.
No.
Omega is a company with its own leadership, HQ, and production sites.
Grand Seiko is not a company, it doesn’t have its own Leadership, and it doesn’t have any production sites.
Longines and Omega have different CEOs. Grand Seiko doesn’t have a CEO, because, like I’ve said, it’s just another Seiko brand.
Grand Seiko watches come out of the same Epson and SII factories that make millions of cheap quartz movements. The high watch division in charge of assembling GS watches also assembles the high end Seikos and Credors (JDM jewelry watch brand).
Nothing changed in 2017, besides the words on the dial.
It’s very annoying how I’ll patiently explain something, and then people will be like “nah” and not even try to support what they’re saying.
You’re right, source is important.
I think you’re confusing the Seiko brand with the Seiko Watch group.
Here is how the Seiko group is organised. The Seiko brand and the GS brand are separate entities.
For the record, here is how the swatch group is organised.
Even Shinji Hattori says GS lives a truly independent life
So again, Seiko and GS are both part of the same group, but they are independent from each other.
Great comment dude. I think you got where Im coming from for the most.
I edited the JLC paragraph because I was trying to imply obviously that the comparison was with Grand Seiko, it’s a semi independent sub brand but it very much is still on the same umbrella.
GS itself is seen poorly vs Rolex or JLC and you can see this from comparing value retention rates. It’s not Swiss even if it’s as good or sometimes better
I hope that the community doesn’t look down on them because…point of this comment is, it’s better than some Swiss brands actually. For example I think many Seikos look far better than a Formex watch.
The argument for the fashion brands is actually completely valid as I found out after even a Casio lasting more than a fashion watch
Both Seiko and Grand Seiko have a enormous amount of fans and apologists so I’m not sure why you’re getting upset about some other peoples opinions on the brand.
I’m always slightly baffled how many people still think Seiko is good value with their current prices and the rise of microbrands. The Seiko group overall is just a confused mess of different brands, model lines, pricing and limited editions.
It’s not so much their opinions but a really weird perception that they’re not a good value anymore.
Where else exactly are you going to find a watch that can take on some more expensive Swiss brands head on for the price a Seiko 5 costs? Tell me. And excluding microbrands because those aren’t for everyone
Look if you enjoy your Seikos then good for you don’t let the opinions of others upset you.
If you truly believe that a Seiko 5 is comparable to say a brand like Longines in terms of build quality, case finishing or quality control there is really nothing further to discuss.
I don’t have a single Seiko. All my watches at the moment except one are Swiss. This isn’t your typical post. I don’t look for validation. I’m just testing stereotypes of the watch community
I feel seiko has tried to break through into the more mid tier level, over entry, and for me personally has lowered my love for the brand.
The SARB line was the pinnacle of value for me. Now $500 doesnt even get you sapphire crystal.
This is actually true, they started closing in on things like Tissot or even Frederique Constant lately and that isn’t exactly as much of a sweet spot value wise as where they were before. But there’s still good offerings for their watches at the same time. In fact I would say it’s the ideal time to still manage to sweep some nice mechanical models by them…after this decade they’ll get real pricey. It just blew up in terms of popularity. But I’m also glad it did as it also is nice to see them getting better and better
To be honest though I don’t see what’s the deal with glasses in any brand…it’s not like you’re gonna be using your watch as a hammer everyday anyways
Well if the competition is offering sapphire at that price point, why cant seiko?
I find my hardlex get scratched often enough for it to be annoyance to me. In a sub 300 dollar watch, no problem.
Not to rattle on, but seiko did offer sapphire in their sarb line, at a great price point. Sarb033 is my daily and I love it.
If they offered it before and stopped that’s not ok honestly
As a newbie shopping for watches, I’ve actually found Seiko to be mostly… meh to terrible. All their <$500 watches are Hardlex. The exact watch line that once was $200 is now $600. They’ve discontinued popular models like the SARB for god knows why.
None of their watches are very good value in comparison with the rest of the market, considering microbrands and chinese homages are selling watches with sapphire crystal for $200-300.
I’ve found Citizen and Orient to simply be better in that price point.
Grand Seiko however, huge fan. I was blown away by their watches and they’re easily worth *more* than their price. But they are also slowly increasing their price over the years too so who knows how long this will last.
Hardlex at the ~500€ price point isn’t great. However, I wanted a small-ish quartz diver, and am really (really!) happy with my Seiko SNE:
- Beautiful dial design (admittedly reminiscent of the Submariner)
- Suitable for smaller wrists (38,5 mm diameter)
- The bezel insert actually has good typography (which the Tissot Seamster doesn’t, unfortunately, and even brands like Omega don’t always get right; this is subjective, however)
- Solar, so no battery/capacitor changes for at least a decade
- Sapphire crystal
- Excellent Lumibrite lume typical of Seiko
- Thin! (10,7 mm thickness)
- Standard 20mm lug width
- In mine, the seconds hand lines up with the markers, as does the bezel
The marked 529€ price is too high for it but I got it for under 285€ shipped, and it can be had for about 300€ pretty much at any given time. I say it’s excellent value. I’m not sure I know a comparable quartz diver.
I want to contradict you but I have a Tissot diver with sapphire glass that costed less than any comparable Seiko so that’s fair. Grand Seiko…good as it is. In that tier level I have a brand I’m crazy for which is called Omega that I would prefer. It comes down to innovation
Why invest time and thought worrying about any of this?
Arguing with Reddit is like banging your head against a brick wall. Who cares if there are detractors. Everyone is different.
I have at least 8 Seiko’s, a King Seiko, a GS, and numerous other watches from many different brands and price points. I quit caring what other people say and do. I’m happy with my choices, not going to let people knock me down for it.
I gave up worrying about what people say. I have zero need to defend a brand because someone said something that someone thinks is offensive. Who cares?
I don’t care what people say. I was just seeing their opinions
I stop reading when you compared the finishing and quality of Seiko to Jaeger LeCoultre.
Lol same, dead stop for me reading any further
That one was a deliberate exaggeration. The fact that it matters that much to you incidently proves my other points
No, it just tells me that you’re being unreasonable.
I love my Seiko, but no way they are close to JLC.
Why people are obsessed with seiko, to the point where half their collection is seiko, I’ll never understand. Their designs are all derivative and far as I can tell their quality unremarkable and fully reflective of their price point. I am considering one as a beater since i dont want to daily wear a $2k+ watch, but I don’t get their followng.
That’s what I’m reflecting on here. I think that it’s exactly because they deliver a quality product for less than the Swiss alternatives
But then again I have a Tissot that costed the same or less as some Seikos and its better
Never in the world Seiko is as well finished as Tissot or Longines.
Have you ever handled those watch ???
Maybe GRAND Seiko is but we talking big budgets.
Seiko is not a bad brand at all but they tends to become less and less of a price to quality ratio every year.
They cant even make good alignments on their prospex diver even on the limited editions… they dont beat swatch group at all.
But yes If you like Seiko good for you, it is a good brand, not my favorite, but a good one !
Op is using seikos large range to justify positions that are nonsense. Seiko does have watches that are a quarter of the price of a Longines or a more expensive Tissot. They do have watches that are comparable in finishing to both. They’re not the same watches.
I don’t have a single Seiko so I don’t really know but from having held one from a friend that’s the impression I got…then again at the time I was using my Casio.
What I do have is a Tissot diver that costs less than any Seiko diver and I actually…there…don’t feel like Seiko will match the quality for the same price.
I just wanted to see what is the general perception of the brand these days as they’re not exactly the killer deal they used to be for many and…why not then
