I have the Sennheiser HD600, Neumann NDH-30, Audeze LCD-X.
I use these with my SSL2 hp out, and with Qudelix 5K.
I spoke to someone about my impressions and his first question was: which dac/amp? and when I told, he just winked.
So my question is: is the difference this obvious with a more expensive dac/amp combo? Should I spend another 6-800 euro to get one? Do your headphones open up/perform that much better?
Just AB test it when possible, spend a considerable amount of time when testing it, in that way you can objectively make a decision on it.
Get an RME ADI-2 and call it a day. The feature set it has will make it sound like whatever you want. The loudness feature is to die for. Everything is customizable. I freaking LOVE this thing. You have an IEM output in addition to the standard phones jack. If you have a PC with 2.1 it auto-switches PEQ and audio playback when you pop something in the headphone jack. Bass treble knobs to make quick adjustments. Worth every penny.
When people say things like “This dac/amp is warm” or “This dac/amp is analytical,” I cringe. With the RME you just dial it in to whatever you want.
You will get a lot of different options on this.
For me, it’s split.
DAC - no, not after a certain point. they are made so well now you can get a great one for £100. I have tried more expensive ones and heard no difference.
AMPs - yes or no depending on what you want to get from it. Super clean signal - then one with sufficient power will suffice. But Tube amps or one that will colour the music, then yes - if that’s the sound you like. More so for the Tube option.
I’ve never personally noticed an issue with DACs, once you get to ~$20+ the DAC is usually not the issue. I’ve noticed noise and buzzing from interference on cheap amps though, so I second that part. I would get a nice quality amp before investing in a good DAC, they’re much more important.
I’d say buying a DAC is more about features than it is about sound. Some features on an rme DAC for instance wouldn’t be able to cram in a $100 DAC.
As for amps I’m a bit torn. I think it really depends on your headphones more than anything. The amp on my rme sounds a bit thin comparing it back to back with my burson but it very well could be it’s not perfectly volume matched. I did a blind test and had my gf switch it and I could tell, but who knows.
Burson has gobs of distortion, it’s in tube amp territory. RME is the exact opposite, very clean. This could result in a perception of the clean amp being thin vs the sprays of distortion adding more body, this is after all something people tend to say about tube amps as well.
I feel a bit different playing my Focal Stellia on Astell&Kern 3000 or on iFi Blu. Yes, it’s not a fair comparison as one is 200$ portable DAC/amp and one a very expensive player , but I feel the combination of better DAC chips and amplification in Astell & Kern makes it much better . I also btw feel like digital portable players are much too expensive , but it’s also much better to be able to play on the go. I quite regretted my electrostatic headphones purchase (4500$ for the Dan Clark Audio Corina, 1260$ for Stax SRM-D50 DAC/AMP ), because I can’t take it anywhere and it’s always annoying to set up .
It’s really dependent. Amps have more diminishing returns than headphones so jumping from a $50 to a $500 amp is going to be much less of an improvement than a headphone equivalent. On the other hand, with a good enough amp, there can be significant improvement.
Good enough being already in the 100-200 USD range
But if amp make any your headphone better, you basically improve anything in your collection. And you also don’t change headphone. You end up with, let’s say HD600, but better than other HD600.
After all, Audiophilia is about small changes meaning much for a person
Agree completely - it depends on the variables in play.
My experience, for example. I have LCD-X (2021). I can play them on an iPhone dongle, the Qudelix-5K, or my Schiit Bifrost 2/64 + Lyr 3 stack. Does the sound from the Qudelix-5K suffice? In more passive/fun mode listening, for sure!
However, there is a resounding difference (read: improvement) in ALL parameters of sound quality when stepping up to the Schiit stack. The entire listening experience is taken up several notches.
Now, is that to say that the $1,200 price difference is completely justified? Yes and no - it’s in the eye of the beholder, folks. For me personally, I get a massive uptick in overall enjoyment, so it’s worth it (and I’m admittedly fortunate enough to afford it). For others, the 5K would be more than sufficient.
thinking about a Schiit Jotunheim 2 for my LCD-X, but can’t go any further
Can you please describe to me the mechanisms within the amp and DAC that resulted in in the resounding quality, and how they do it, maybe where I could see it measured, how an amp impacts the quality of the audio and then how a DAC does in terms of what they do to the audio and not like “makes it sound like glitter”
I am trying to learn about how sound works and how amps and DACs work and you sound like you really know like how they work inside and what they do and don’t do
I want to resound, please help
For measurements, you’re asking in the wrong place. If I understood you correctly, you’re asking for a differentiation between what amps do versus what dacs do?
The point I’ve heard was that while with full blown headphones it makes a different, it’s nowhere that big or at all noticeable with IEMs.
My X2HRs distort when plugged into my laptop. Plugging them into an amp removes this distortion.
No
Try different sources. Test it. There are differences (especially with amps) but only up to a certain range (for reasonably drivable headphones), and after that the margin of error between performance diminishes a lot.
I could absolutely, 100% hear differences from my old analog mixer (BX-8) headphone outs vs any audio interface. The headphone out was mega powerful, but was also just weird (tho operating properly). FR definitely got a bit wonky with the mixer headphone out.
From my Presonus Audiobox iTwo to Schiit DAC/Amp. I believe there were differences, but it was very hard to tell. Easily placebo, I have to admit. I did trial after trial.
From my Schiit to RME, I believe I could not hear a difference.
I did a small blind test with a friend between iPhone 5s, 2021 Macbook Pro, and RME across 3 song intros. I volume matched each source with a test tone, mic, and calibrating volume. Findings were 100% inconclusive even after numerous re-listens/comparisons.
I would love to see these folks who say “It all just opened up after I bought this $1000 amp to replace my $500 amp. 🤯” do a blind test and fail repeatedly.
Where’s that openness? 🤷♂️ Where’re the obvious differences? 🤷♂️ Where’s the incredibly better soundstage? 🤷♂️
I see you have the LCD-X too. I was thinking about a Schiit combo for that too.
I did a small blind test with a friend between iPhone 5s, 2021 Macbook Pro, and RME across 3 song intros. I volume matched each source with a test tone, mic, and calibrating volume. Findings were 100% inconclusive even after numerous re-listens/comparisons.
I loved playing with the Loki in my Schiit stack, but honestly, the RME has everything I want/need.
Can’t say the same for you, but yes a new dac amp really transformed my headphone to an almost entirely new headphone. It’s a clear improvement, though I do miss the fun I get from the old Fostex amp.
Get a bang for the buck DAC like Gustard X18. I had many DACs ranging low to mid from Topping D90LE, RME Adi-2, and SMSL. X18 was the best one of them all. It was hard to differentiate between Topping and RME. But I was able to tell X18 sounded the best. It had noticeably bigger sound stage.
Amps didn’t particularly improve the sound for me past $1k-1.5k USD. Some amps give you a thicker body while some give you leaner sound. It’s just preference at that point.
That depends. DAC wise, unless you want to nitpick about details no human being can hear unless they measure it, then they do. Amp wise, you have to ask yourself if the quality improvement is actually real or just the Fletcher-Munson Effect making you think like so because the amp can give you more volume.
You just have to reach a level of competency and avoid the utter crap. I was driving my Audeze LCD-2 with a JDS Atom and it was fine, until I started to use EQ. Then it was missing just a little bit of headroom, so I got the THX789. That was fine except for a couple quiet tracks that I had to max out volume. Then I switched to a balanced DAC, the SMSL DO100 and now everything is just peachy keen. I’m getting reference level performance and the DAC/AMP stack did not cost a lot. Only the cans were a fairly large expense, but that’s how it should be.
(everything i say is my opinion and none of this is a fact)
as an owner of lots of dacs/amps/headphones … is a $400 amp much better than a $100 one? no.how about $100 and $700 - the amplification part? no…
how about a $200 amp and a $1500 amp - surely, the $1500 amp … amplifies the signal “better” than the $200 one - no… no it doesn’t
when listening to my hipdac, which was $200 - music sounds amazing and perfect… nothing sounds wrong. there is no compromise.
this is the same for music coming out of the apple dongle…
rme adi? which cost 5x as much as my hipdac - everything sounds exactly the same, until you start hitting xbass or fiddling with eq.
my cambridge dacs/amps are also perfect - smsl… perfect - schiit - perfect… etc etc etc.
i don’t have a piece of equipment that is “better” than another from the pure dac and pure amp standpoint - the difference is in the inputs, details, features, smell… touch… etc.
but that’s from my point of view - other people have valid and valuable input on the matter.
I’m fairly sure it wasn’t placebo. I went to a local store and got to try the HD600 with a Hugo TT 2 and with a Fiio K9 pro. In comparison, the second one was trash
No
That 5K is something special. It’s swinging way above its price class. I’ve compared it to ifi, fiiO, Questyle, and it’s no contest. Then I compared it to my $2400 desktop setup and damn… it’s at least playing in the $1000 class in terms of quality (not in terms of power output of course). So it’s a definite “audio hack” in my opinion.
The shit people pay up for is in the “time domain”, “psychoacoustic” realm. I think the 5K has some of that magic