I’ve seen people state both that they so not influence the tuning as long as they deliver the same power and others stating that they can make headphones “sound warmer” or “brighter”. I don’t see how that would happen though and a lot of audiophiles just hear things that I feel aren’t there, like some noise difference between the Apple DAC Dongle and a 500 EUR DAC using an off the rack chip.
Take this comment from ASR:
Amps are more likely to make an audible difference than most DACs, but that certainly doesn’t mean there are audible differences between most amps
I’m talking purely about AMPs here, not a DAC combination.
The thing is, human hearing is notoriously susceptible to being biased by small volume differences and non-audible factors, so properly controlled comparisons are non-trivial.
Quality solid-state headphone amps generally reproduce the input signal with a great deal of accuracy when not pushed outside their power delivery capabilities, and have negligible output impedance, so to me the claim that you can tell them apart with human hearing is like saying you can hear 30khz - extraordinary claims require evidence.
With tube amps, audible differences are much more likely.
In regards to the output impedance: What you mean is the damping factor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor
it can make a lot of difference if you have old gear like a receiver with 30 output impedance. (My starter gear)
Most amplifiers over $20 have a noise floor lower than 80 decibels and a distortion level lower than zero and are measured flat from 20 Hz to 20 thousand Hz
thats cap af
Tube amps will definitely have a noticeable difference than solid state amps due to much higher output impedance and the very high 2nd order harmonic resonance (depending on tubes and tube circuit)
Yeah, and that’s why it’s so fun to tube roll. Buy a bunch of different tubes and they will all sound noticeably different.
They can make a difference, but as long as you have enough power you really shouldn’t notice it. Make sure it meets the specifications you need at the price you want and eq for everything else.
Tube amps are different for sure, I run a tube for my verite, but it’s for a particular sound.
Technically they all vary, but in the (probably vast) majority of the cases it’s inaudible.
amps do make a difference and do add their own “flavor” to it. its processing the signal after all.
even while staying on the same type of amp. (Tube Amps drastically alter the sound)
its usually minimal tho.
i recently switches my Schiit Asgard 3 for a Topping A70 Pro and noticed my music sounding different. Friends confirmed it too.
The Asgard did make it sound a bit warmer while also seemingly making low end a bit more powerful.
The Topping sounded much more “reserved” and analytical. I could hear things I didnt notice before. So I traded fun sound for super clean analytical sound in my case.
And yes. using the same DAC (schiit bifrost 2), same cables (pyst rca) and headphone (Hifiman Edition XS)
If we talk about dedicated solid state headphone amps with similar specs, the difference might be difficult to tell apart.
If we compare poor laptop PC audio and dedicated headphones amp, the difference might be in noise level, volume and dynamics.
We need to get some things stickied in this sub, here’s one example
Depends on the headphone, for some higher impedance/lower sensitivity headphone you do need an amplifier. Say HE-6 or LCD-4 for example.
Most amps today have a ruler flat frequency response and distortion products at vanishing low levels. So as long as you don’t drive them into clipping, they will sound the same or better formulated: they don’t have a sound of their own so nothing audible that set them apart.
However, the interaction between the impedance of the amp and the impedance headphone might make an audible difference. If the amp has a impedance of 10 Ohm and you combine it with a headphone having a impedance of 30, you have a damping ration of 3. Way to low and will result in a bloated bass.
Combine at with a 300 Ohm headphone and you have a damping ration of 10, a value considered sufficient.
However the biggest difference is simply us. Most of the time we don’t test properly. We simply listen with our eyes. We see that impressive piece of audio gear, we have read raving reviews, it has a eyewatering price tag so it must be good. And indeed, what we believe, we will hear. Most of these perceived differences are a product of our perception. Not to be mistaken for properties of a product.
There shouldn’t be any audible difference in timbre/tone between competently made solid state amps running within spec
Humans are very sensitive to small changes in volume but often mistakenly attribute this change to other nebulous sound qualities that they might be seeking such as “clarity” “dynamics” “punch” or negative ones such as “veiled” “muffled” “dull” etc.
When people “test” amps in store or at home, they always just use their ears to approximate a consistent listening volume and they will mostly get it wrong.
I have yet to see any compelling double-blind, volume-matched tests where people have been able to consistently distinguish between different models and tiers of competently made solid state amps. If the differences are so pronounced, then it should be trivial to conclusively prove this once and for all and end the debate (ditto cables, power conditioners, DACs etc)
I agree that when you introduce tubes into the mix, they indeed can audibly colour the sound and if you like that colour/distortion, then fair enough!
At the end of the day, amplifiers should *amplify* and not change the tone or dynamics of the signal it is being fed.
I’ve done a ton of reading of opinions since getting into this hobby. I couldn’t disagree more with people who say that all dacs and amps essentially sound the same. For a long time, I had exclusively “entry level” AMPS (Schiit Magni/Modi, JDS Labs Atom+ Stack). I recently pulled the trigger on a topping a9o and the difference was insane. The details on songs that I’ve heard a million times, the sound stage… almost everything sounded different (in a good way).
Unless you can tell them apart in blind, level-matched tests, the differences could extremely easily be imagined due to expectation bias, or due to slight differences in volume. And no, you cannot use your ear to level-match, it’s not precise enough, you need a multi-meter.
I’m not sure why everyone seems to believe that their hearing is so accurate, it’s really not. It’s almost entirely in your brain, making sense of vibrations, but what you EXPECT to hear, or what you THINK you’re hearing changes what you actually hear. All the time.
The McGurk effect is an obvious one, but your entire range of hearing works this way. Human hearing is incredibly unreliable and fallible, this is irrefutable fact. Perceiving a difference doesn’t mean there actually is one.
Sir, Do you have a degree in any STEM field?
I’d put more weight on changing the synergy of my system with a DAC than an amp once the amp meets whatever criteria. It personally bothers me more when I listen to a source that doesn’t sound how I expect.
Anyone who says amps sound the same has probably only tried the same 2 brands of Asian made hyper transparent delta Sigma’s.
It’s patently false.
amps can vary in sound
that variation can be both positive or negative, or give benefits with tradeoffs in other areas
Oamp’s can but usually they can also be changed quite cheap.