Honestly, most non tube AMPS sound the same, let alone DACs. But then you would have to admit that most adults can only hear up to 16kHz, most of the music content you listen to is in the under 10kHz range, SINAD is way past human hearing, vinyl is often transcribed from digital recordings, microphones are often digital these days so no analog version of sound even exists, and a myriad of other uncomfortable truths that audiophiles don’t like.

I AB’ed Adi 2 pro against cheap dongles with no intention to buy it on a few headphones I owned, which suffer from poor imaging. It did sound different.

I think I can hear a subtle difference between my Fiio and the Tempotec Sonata, but it’s not significant and not worth worrying about.

Nope. I used to be a hardcore objectivist. What happened to change my mind was going from a decent budget DAC (Topping D50) to a really nice DAC (Gungnir multibit) and being able to try them both at my leisure in my home. The D50 was rated as audibly transparent and state of the art, only DAC you’ll ever need by Audio Science Review* but after a few minutes of listening it sounded harsh and colored in comparison with Gungnir.

Another thing that changed my mind was going to shows and hearing the super high end DACs from dCS, Chord, Bricasti, etc.

I do think there are audible differences we don’t know how to meaure yet. I also think expectation bias is real and people fool themselves all the time by thinking the expensive DAC is better.

*I like the meaurement oriented approach of ASR but the site’s continued existence contradicts its own philosophy. If the Topping D50 is audibly transparent and impossible to improve upon why bother to continue testing newer DACs that, according to ASR’s philosophy, cannot possibly sound better than it? Isn’t the D90 a waste of money if D50 is already perfect?

No, but I also don’t think a more expensive DAC necessarily sounds better. I’d rather buy a fairly cheap, transparent DAC and EQ to my tastes.

Yes

I’ve heard a few 3000+ dacs and can’t tell the difference between my humble su8 v2 side by side with the same headphones and amp.

I bought a ladder dac and will never go back, more detail, more power, smoother sound. I went with the Holo Audio Spring 2 level 2.

Same amp with multiple DACs connected at the same time, volume matched. Just switch the source and can easily tell differences. Maybe a 1 second gap in doing so. Focus on specific aspects of sound like perhaps a guitar you hear at extremes of left and right. Evaluating 2 R2R DACs that way the lesser one almost eliminated the guitar and what there was of it was in the center. With other comparisons there can be big differences in clarity or even hearing portions of music suddenly gone. Generally a skeptic with a science background so well aware of placebo effects and such. The differences I’ve heard in DACs have ranged from minor to significant. Makes me wonder how others can’t hear these obvious differences. Though if it was 30 seconds or more between switching sources I wouldn’t trust my auditory memory.

DACs, no. DAC/AMP combos however, only slight differences. When I had a Hugo 2 I blind tested it with my PC audio out into some focal utopias and the only difference was a very VERY small hiss from the pc and that was it.

Let me tell you a story. Once upon a time I designed my own DAC. PCM1704 with ultra low jitter crystals and state of the art low noise linear regulation. It used a discrete floating JFET IV stage using now discontinued but much lauded transistors. It was battery powered so there could be no power line noise.

It was. Joy. Such a fantastically wide soundstage. Highly detailed. Great dynamics. A magnificent experience. Like nothing I had ever experienced.

Then I realized that the RCAs going to my amp were still plugged into my soundcard and the ones coming out of the DAC were just dangling.

I’ll say with complete honesty that the DAC changed my life, just not with its audio quality.

If it doesn’t then it isn’t a proper DAC.

It’s hardly a matter of belief: we’re pretty sure of what the limits of human hearing are (and that can easily be tested) so if two devices are performing well above what we’d be able to discern in their performance you won’t notice a difference.

If this was not the case it would be in the best interest of any of the manufacturers of expensive equipment to setup a credible A/B test that would show how a difference can actually be discerned. But they won’t, because it can’t.

If you hear some flaw and you can tell it’s the DAC and not the amp or elsewhere, then that would have to be an absolutely shitty DAC

They were designed to be transparent when I started in the 90s and they’re designed to be transparent today. They just got better at making them audibly invisible as intended and cheaper to make between now and then. As long as companies continue to sit down on day one of creating a DAC with the first order of business making it inaudible, I’ll continue to evaluate and purchase them based on their ability to fulfill their intended purpose - Which costs about $8 in 2023.

I’m thankful people buy them so companies have extra revenue to keep gear that actually matters cheaper. They’ve managed turn a redundant and obsolete product category into an audio requirement thanks to people selling DACs and other audio jewelry for them through confirmation bias on the forums and assorted internet mediums. Companies were able to eliminate huge portions of their advertising and marketing budgets when customers started selling gear for them by telling anyone who would listen about how great what they just bought sounds regardless if it was possible for it to do it or not. They didn’t have to pour any snake oil on it, the communities did it for them. Not only did they sell gear for them, they made it into literal tribal warfare defending the products against criticism and objective data on their behalf. Unpaid labor is pretty sweet, you can sell a lot of things a lot cheaper with that kind of workforce and customer base.

That all contributed to what we have modern day, which is an era where what was unobtainable audio gear and levels of quality are now affordable for just about anybody. ASR came about and altered the market to make measurement standards for even entry level gear and anyone who knew how to interpret them and research how sound and audio equipment actually worked reaped the benefits people who didn’t paid for.

These days I just try to help new people save money entering the hobby by providing information so they can become informed consumers and count my lucky stars people who opt not to be still buy this stuff for higher and higher prices the cheaper it gets to make them. Audio used to be a really expensive hobby, now it’s pretty much just natural selection.