Lately since covid has begun, there has been a high job insecurity in multiple fields , while the logical thing to do would have been improving job security laws, at least our govt( the name does not matter really) has brought laws , that gives power to the capitalists to abuse labour laws , or to fire employees more easily! I dont understand how does it even help the state or people , except the capitalists ?
I think in the US, national laws require corporations to maximize shareholder profits at all costs. It’s disgusting, but Friedman economists still have the ear of Congress, so there’s not much to be done about it.
Most business ethics stuff I’ve seen from the past 10-20 years directly rebukes stakeholder theory and the Friedman purist view of “profits are all that businesses should care about”.
Although… how many CEOs have read books on corporate ethics?
Business is not my specialty, but I do have the sense that the ethical viewpoint is shifting away from Friedman. Unfortunately, the law is not. Shareholder supremacy is still mandated in the US, by my understanding, and ethics be damned.
But the ethics arguments do get into that a bit. For example, if you want to maximize value for shareholders (note that is a distinct term from stakeholders), do you give employees more benefits? That encourages retention. Turnover is super fuckin expensive, so you can make the argument that higher pay and increased benefits add shareholder value.
Basically, it’s not such a black-and-white legal argument
Although everything you say is true, most businesses believe that it’s better to hold on to that money, just in case they “need it more” than the people that make it for them.
There’s business, and there’s ethics.
Pick one.
It’s not hard to run a business ethically. I own a business myself, and I know a number of small business owners that do the same. The problem is when you have shareholders, especially as a publicly trade corporation, then you’re legally required to put shareholder demands above your personal operational philosophy.
Neo classical economics is a cult and this is a hill I’m willing to die on.
Can you elaborate? I’m interested to understand this better, both what neoclassical economics exactly is what characteristics make it a cult.
It’s hard to summarise in a comment but I’ll give it a go. I should also note that this is just my understanding and opinion so I encourage you to seek out more information and formulate your own views where possible.
Neo classical economics is the technical term I guess but you might be more familiar with a similar concept known as neoliberalism. As it’s associated with Reagan and Thatcher it’s also referred to as Reaganomics or Thatcherism. At the heart of neoliberal ideology is free market fundamentalism or the idea that unregulated, profit-motivated, markets are the best way to distribute resources. Doesn’t matter what these resources are (health, food, housing, iPhones etc), neoliberalism tends to see things as products and not human rights. If you’re in America this will sound pretty normal to you, but for us non-americans who have things like universal healthcare, it’s a strange way to distribute a human right.
Another key part is this idea that when rich people get richer it benefits society because wealth trickles down (you may be familiar with the term ‘trickle-down economics’). Therefore economies work best when those with the most capital (the rich) are left alone to do what they do best and government’s role is essentially to facilitate this. There’s a lot more to it than this and encompasses a range of issues.
Why do I think it’s a cult? Because we have all the data now to show that trickle down economics is not a thing, that equality is getting worse, that people are suffering because their human rights are not being met. And yet we are still using this approach. Sure, this is a situation where the powerful don’t want to give up power. But I also think the rich and their servants (governments) do actually on some level believe in the ideology. It’s very much a church of capitalism. The pandemic rely illustrated this on such a visceral level.
Right there with you. I’d even go further and say that it’s the application of lessons the rich learned from the failures of their ancestors in the Guilded Age. This time, they intend to keep workers in their place by any means necessary.
I think a declaration that corporations should be making money primarily is a good one. But it must be coupled with legislation that gives them guardrails and promotes competition. Without these things the economy doesn’t function as it should.
Unfortunately, that latter part is full of disagreements.
That’s not exactly true.
What is true is that the officers of the company have a duty to act in the best interest of the company, as they evaluate it. That might mean more pay hikes and stock grants. It might mean cost cutting and job losses while executives get bonuses. It might mean offshoring jobs or keeping them local. If the board disagrees with the leadership vision or execution, they can fire people. But there’s no law that governs what a ceo can or can’t do with regard to profit or success, as long as they can show they were acting in the best interest of the company. That’s not hard to do if they managed to not break other laws, like embezzlement.
For instance, if Musk answered to a board of directors at twitter, he would have been fired a while ago, but they couldn’t have him arrested for tanking the company.
But there’s no law that governs what a ceo can or can’t do with regard to profit or success, as long as they can show they were acting in the best interest of the company.
This may be technically true but it doesn’t play out like that and can’t due to structural reasons. The situation arose from Henry Ford paying his workers substantially above what was deemed necessary because he wanted the workers to become consumers, preferably Ford consumers, and the shareholders instead wanted the extra bit in those pay packets to go to them instead. The shareholders took Ford to court and won. Now shareholders for the most part aren’t even people or small groups who can be persuaded by things like growing a healthy consumer base in the economy, they’re various large funds trying to simply maximize the amount of money they generate independent of any thought about overall economic health.
Maybe not accounted, but certainly they could sue him.
I can see blatant disregard of the anti trust laws and big corps going monopolistic without any actual caps , idk when will it stop !
Didn’t you hear? What benefits the corporations benefits the people! It’s trickle down prosperity.
Read a report two days ago , that trickle down does not seem to work ! Ik ur sarcastic !
It’s been 40 years since that crap was spouted and the readout has determined that was a lie.
Trust me bro, it’ll totally work this time!
Depends which country, the countries laws and ruling party. In, most western countries capitalists do have alot of sway.
One thing to keep in mind regarding the USA is that it’s not a proper democracy (gerrymandering + indirect votes for president + money lobbies). That by itself skews the political game in favor of the rich and power holders.
I can speak for my country, Brazil, which also has lobbies for stuff that’s bad for workers (temer and bozo’s years immediately come to mind), like allowing companies to hire MEI (individual micro entrepreneur, basically a company of yourself) instead of “real workers”, thus bypassing most labor related laws and taxes, which all become optional for the MEI to pay.
Bottom line is: people with fuckloads of money spend their money to ensure laws that help them keep said money are passed. Fucking workers is a side bonus for them, most of the time.
Yes. A rich persons assets are protected by law. Whilst your life is considered secondary at best. Laws are primarily written to protect assets of the rich. It’s always been that way. From the Roman senate to the US senate. They are/were all rich land owners. Land which they stole from the natives, and enslaved them. There is nothing strange about this. This is just how we do things as a species. So a better question would be. How do we break this destructive cycle that has plagued our (human) civilization since its inception?
The rich are allowed to borrow billions from banks just on a letter of understanding and no actual proof , they may later be rescued by govts as well if they fail , while the othet than 1% , are scutinised for a few hundred thousand dollar loan too !
There are a couple of different ways of looking at this but I think either way the answer is yes.
Firstly, capitalism as an economic system requires a government of some sort to maintain it. If we accept this (and outside of a small minority of extreme right wing libertarians and anarchocapitalists, most of us do), then there’s a fairly simple answer to your question: without a supportive government, there is no capitalism and therefore no capitalist interest. So, yes.
But I think the question you’re asking is perhaps more like, ‘Does the government make a deliberate effort to keep capitalists, i.e., shareholders, in control of the economy, as opposed to some other group?’
I think the answer to this rephrased question is slightly more complex, although it does also boil down to ‘Yes’. Businesses are required by law to prioritise shareholder returns. Insofar as the government could change the law, but doesn’t, the answer to your question again must be ‘Yes’.
But, while that law does exist, it’s not the only law. All governments do, in practice, constrain what businesses can and can’t do, and therefore do effectively restrict the theoretical profits a shareholder can make. Many governments also protect the existence and activities of groups like trade unions, which are often seen as running counter to the interests of shareholders. In this case, while I still think that basically the answer to your question is ‘Yes’, we can safely add a ‘but’, as in, ‘… but that’s not ALL that governments do’.
There’s another angle here, which is that many or even most people in the developed world are at least partially or indirectly shareholders and, therefore, capitalists. If you have a savings account or a pension, you own shares through your bank/pension provider. So, some might argue that keeping capitalists/shareholders ‘on top’ actually benefits nearly everyone. I don’t quite buy this, but it’s worth considering.
I think I could probably add further points and caveats here (e.g., tax policy might benefit ‘the rich’ who tend largely to also be ‘the capitalists/shareholders’) but I think I’ve said as much as I can without repeating myself.
Of course. That’s who the government works for. That’s who pays them, lobbies them. Gives them sweet luxury vacations. Laws are written by the ultra wealthy.
Can you share some examples of the laws?
For example , increase in the percentage of the employees companies can hire and fire , without serving a notice or any amount paid to them , increased the work week hours here close to 50, made policies so that companies can save money at expense of employee health etc !
“the government” can be referring to many groups unless you believe in a secret world order.
Well yes , the govt means govt of respective country / states , although they are so similar that I dont want to name specific country !
Mostly so.
Hahahaha umm yeah it does. This is kind of why a lot of people have some issues with the whole capitalism thing. It’s not good for anyone but capitalists.
