Just wondering about this.
I have a friend who sometimes just specifically craves a certain dish from a certain food chain. (Like wicked wings from KFC or something)
Or they suddenly feel like watching a specific show (Like Boston Legal)
How does that work?
I never seem to experience something similar to that.
Is it common to feel like that?
There’s a… “activation potential” for each need and want. If it get’s over the inhibitors (like, you lazing on the couch), you’d get to it.
And the wants are mostly fed by relation and wishes.
While in the case of food, it’s mostly the chemical lab in your belly telling you from experience, that you need something (with more weight on calories-dense stuff (evolution), so, careful).Well, it’s a bit more complex than that (with “levels” of channels, mutual influence, etcetc), but that’s the gist of it.
Put your hand on a hot stovetop. You’ll rapidly become overwhelmed with the desire to remove it.
Ha, that’s definitely the case for me. I would even say that I’m more sensitive than other people in that sense.
But that’s more about avoiding or disliking something (which I can tell relatively easily) I don’t seem to crave or desire specific things though.
So most of my life is decided by things I want to avoid, rather than things I actually want myself.
I think even my choice of studies and work was made that way, and now I realise that I don’t really like those either, and I don’t know what to do instead.
…Do you never know what you want? 🤨
Pretty much.
I can tell when I don’t want something though. Usually because of pain or fatigue.
Well, to quote the Fallout TV series:
“I feel like I’m hungry, but not for food.”
They were talking about drug addiction, but it kinda applies to everything just not necessarily as intense as an addiction.
* Not a doctor or professional, just rambling as a lay person *
Brains are complex, but seem to boil down to input in, output out. The inputs are sensory stimuli (sights, smells, etc) as well as various hormone and other chemical levels in your body and brain. The outputs are things you think and do.
The brain will use chemicals like dopamine and serotonin to encourage behaviors. Dopamine acts like the “remember that thing? ohh that would be really good right now” messenger chemical, and serotonin is the feel good reward messenger chemical when the task completes.
Those chemicals have to actually attach to receivers in cells to work, and other chemicals can take their spot under certain conditions (this is why caffeine keeps most people from getting sleepier — it takes up the space that the “we’re getting tired” messenger chemical would otherwise attach to).
* Again, not a doctor or professional, just rambling. *
But If I had to guess, some part of that process is not working as expected in your brain. Dopamine not being produced when it should be, or serotonin not attaching when it should be, or something like that. If you also experience symptoms of ADHD or depression and/or your symptoms impede your life or otherwise bother you, you should consider seeing a psychiatrist to narrow down what’s actually happening and find possible solutions.
I’ve been to a psychiatrist and many psychologists, but I never seem to be able to communicate my problems with them. They just see a person that seems fine and is friendly.
I have tried medication in the past, but they always make me feel more overwhelmed and at some point I have to stop. I haven’t really tried much though.
Only meditation seems to help a bit, but I need to do 2-3 hours per day to notice a small change.
… it sounds like the concept of remembering something? And that you liked that thing, and it’s entirely possible to just do it again? Pretty normal stuff
I suppose it’s normal for most people. Somehow it’s difficult for me to remember what I like? Is that strange?
One example is that I don’t like pants with sideways pockets, I prefer them to be straight. I can remember this now, but when I actually go out and buy pants (which might be in a year or so) I will likely not remember at that time and buy the ones I don’t like again.
Pretty normal stuff
For humans it is normal. The “simple” function as you call it, is actually the foundation for consciousness.
For me it’s not simple though. Does that make me non-human? I’m really surprised this is considered a basic thing.
Obviously you have memory. Which is a foundation for consciousness.
I do have memory, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to give my own personal experiences in these comments.
But I also know that in a few days I will have forgotten that I even made this thread.
Not saying this is OP specifically or anything, but I have long suspected that some fellow humans just aren’t as…conscious/sapient as the rest of us. Like literal NPCs. It would explain a lot. No I’m not talking about anything race or eugenics related, not going there at ALL. Just sometimes I’ve met people and wondered “…did we grow up on the same planet?”
It’s strange. I’ve been in a state of shutdown and disconnect for most of my life. Only recently with lot’s of meditation, I’ve reached a point where I (sometimes) am aware of my own needs and emotions.
When I look at other people I’m amazed by the capacities they have.
- They can think about their needs and desire while having a conversation
- When sitting still and not doing anything, they automatically start thinking about a bunch of things they still want to do or things that happened in the past
- They can hold their preferences in their head in any circumstance
- At any given time they have an idea of their priorities or needs.
- They feel it automatically when they have a certain need, like water, food, connection, etc…
I suppose this is normal for most people? But for me it has been only a very recent experience, and most of the time I still can’t
An example of this is meditation. When I sit down to meditate and focus on my breathing, and do this for 1-2 hours, I don’t experience any thoughts about future plans or things that happened before.
However, with consistency, this seems to be happening occasionally for me now from time to time.
A few years ago just talking was already pretty hard for me. Nowadays I manage, but it’s mostly talking in a way that I’ve learned from patterns in how other people talk, and i’m not necessarily able to communicate my own state of mind to other people that easily.
Yes, all those things are normal. I imagine you have went through some very difficult things to exist as you have been for so long. It’s very interesting that you find meditation is helping you. Thanks for sharing. I send you love and wish you success on your journey and happiness in your life!
Thank you.
I’m looking into what might have happened to me. But I don’t really remember much from before I was like 15 years old. I even have difficulties remembering things from the day before. Probably related.
Meditation seems to be somewhat different for me than others. I don’t really think of anything, just feel physical sensations, mostly discomfort.
Over time, if I practice very consistently, some thoughts start popping up in my head.
I’ve heard from others that usually their head is full of thoughts and meditation actually helps them to calm it down.
Maybe another type of meditation rather than breathing meditation would be more helpful for me, but I’m not sure.
Have you had an MRI of your brain done?
Yeah, had one last year, nothing special to see on it. I did have a traffic accident a long time ago. Got hit by a car while biking. They never did an MRI at that time though.
There are absolutely degrees of consciousness.
Plus memory, and probably some chemical trigger (like dopamine or some other).
I’ve noticed the specific food craving thing around my period. It needs to replace iron or whatever, so I suddenly want a hamburger.
But how does that connection happen? Is my body releasing hormones in a specific way that my brain understands before and after the burger, and then in the future, the “give me iron” hormone is translated into fantasizing about hamburgers by my brain?
https://www.parents.com/what-to-know-about-pregnancy-cravings-7507166
I figured pregnancy was when people get weird cravings the most. Hormones go so wild then, it really makes me think hormones are the culprit here, with the brain translating them as best it can.
The like three articles I looked at on this all warned about how pica (craving for nonfood items) might mean you have low iron.
https://www.mdpi.com/2673-6357/6/3/26
The connection with iron and pica makes me think there is something concrete going on here (don’t eat concrete. go see if you need iron supplements). But your hormones and brain are both flailing around trying to keep you alive, so it can get weird.
Outside eating, the craving is probably the desire to return to some feeling. Music especially seems to get associated with times and people who were around then, and specific states of mind. I permanently associated one song with a cool scene from a story I was reading, and now I get an echo of the feeling from that scene when I hear it. And when I want that reading a cool action scene feeling, I can listen to that song on purpose.
TLDR; probably brain translating desire or need by making us want things it associates with filling those needs. With food, hormones seem involved.
I rarely listen to music because I can’t really concentrate on anything else while music is playing.
I do like music though, and sometimes I have a random song playing in my head. Makes me wonder whether that is also related to some moment or memory then. I can’t tell though.
Regarding activities, I usually find I crave certain activities when I get burnt out on other activities and need a break from that activity while staying occupied. For instance, if I’m doing a lot of writing at work, I may crave a spatially stimulating activity at home. It is my mind signaling I’m doing too much of one activity and I need a different one to keep from wearing out.
How do you experience this craving?
Like what do you feel that makes you realise you want to do a spatially stimulating activity at home?
To me it’s amazing you can tell something like that!
It’s hard to describe as a physical sensation. Best I can do:
If I’m craving a hamburger, I get a very strong, vivid memory of the feel and taste of biting into a burger, and a strong belief that eating a burger would make me feel very satisfied right now. The same way that, when I’m thirsty, I instinctively know with certainty that drinking is what would make me feel better.
I am not able to do something like that…
I can remember things, but usually it’s kindof like a list of facts:
- I know there is a KFC nearby
- I know it’s on the corner towards the main street
- I know they sell burgers.
sometimes I can even visualise kinda in my head what a burger looks like, or what the place looks like. But very vague. I cannot remember things like feelings, emotions, taste, smell, those kind of things related to the thing I’m thinking of.
If I’m craving a hamburger, I get a very strong, vivid memory of the feel and taste of biting into a burger, and a strong belief that eating a burger would make me feel very satisfied right now. The same way that, when I’m thirsty, I instinctively know with certainty that drinking is what would make me feel better.
Drug addiction can be described this way as well.
It isn’t a conscious choice, but something where I’ll identify that I want to do a certain activity when I have free time or I find myself coalescing around a set of interests. I’ll make the choice or find that I’m changing what I picked based on different tasks at work.
I don’t think of the reasons when I make the choice, but I do recognize the trend after I’ve made the choice. It has also helped me recognize when to park certain hobbies that I’m working on because I know I’ll come back to them, but I know my mind needs something else and it is better to let my mind go for something different than to burn out completely on one hobby because I killed the joy I had in it.
I have this happen often that I would choose one thing and just keep working on it until I’m completely exhausted and cannot work on anything anymore. Then I usually drop it and never return to it.
It’s almost like other people have this compass to guide them what their priorities should be, but I don’t seem to have it.
For me i think it’s your brain giving you an incentive to eat something you need nutrient wise, most of the time it’s bog standard hunger you need calories to function and that’s the fuel gauge light coming on.
But if you are needing iron maybe you want meat and you want something that fills that particular need. If a dish covers multiple bases with veggies meat and carbs it may be more generally desirable because it meets several criteria.
It’s still not something i feel very strongly but i think some people experience it more because they are more in tune with the needs of their bodies.
I wonder if there is a way to improve this faculty of knowing what you are missing. Perhaps some kind of elimination diet where you would eat enough calorie wise, but stick to only a few ingredients. Then you might be able to feel like you still want to eat something, but it will be more specific?
I was a vegetarian/vegan for a few years, and the specificity of my cravings increased dramatically. I wasn’t ever just “hungry”, I had specific cravings for specific foods.
That’s interesting actually. I’m interested in eating more vegetarian. I am already doing it for about half of the days, but maybe when I do only vegetarian I would be able to tell more!
I think this is the general formula:
The Serotonin decides (expected reward). The expectation of biggest reward in the shortest span of time with the least amount of effort and sacrifice of other things.
If time is prolonged, the reward needs to be bigger.Being hungry moves you towards the food, not being hungry will move you towards the TV show.
If he is not that hungry he might choose the TV, but if he gets hungry while watching he might change his mind and go for the food, despite being in the middle of the show.If money is short the dish will decline in priority, especially for people with functioning frontal lobes.
But there can be many many factors that are weighed not consciously but emotionally. Research shows we are way more guided by emotions than we think, we do what our emotions tell us, and then we rationalize it afterwards to convince our consciousness that it was in control all the time, despite it wasn’t.
A significant part of our emotional state is actually controlled by bacteria in our stomach! So it is not entirely the brain alone as another comment claims. But it is signals that are sent to the brain, so in that way the brain remains the ultimate decision maker.So what is going on when people don’t get the right signals?
Like if I don’t drink for a full day, I don’t experience thirst. But sometimes I do. Not sure what makes the difference.
Once, I tried to just drink a specific amount every hour or something. But I also had a situation where I had to vomit (just water) presumably because I drank too much in a short while.
Is there some way to train yourself to be aware and able to tell these signals correctly again? Nowadays I usually drink something when I feel a headache because apparently that is also typical for dehydration.
If you don’t get the right signals, it definitely is detrimental to having the right behavior.
Regarding thirst it is well known that elderly people don’t feel thirst to drink as much as they should.
This harms the kidneys and people may actually die earlier from such a thing.I am not aware that this can be trained. You should ask a professional, if you urine is dark yellow you should definitely drink more water.
Somebody told me to check the color to know
Problem is that, since I don’t drink that much, I also don’t go to the toilet often.
Especially when I was still working. I would forget to go to the toilet.
I would typically only go once per day or maybe once per two days.
If my memory was better I could probably just remember to drink often enough.
For me, the food I eat and stuff I watch on TV do two things: they either provide novelty and stimulation (new stuff) or comfort (old, familiar stuff).
As a person who is AuDHD (autism and ADHD), I really need both to thrive (or sometimes just exist).
So, if I feel under or overstimulated, my brain will crave whatever will help get me to equilibrium.
At least that’s how I see my system when it comes to cravings and whatnot.
I was also diagnosed with both autism and ADHD.
But my experience seems to be a bit different. I’ve spent a lot of time playing games or watching shows, but I never seem to be able to stick with something for long.
It’s almost like I’m trying to avoid thinking, and I need something new to keep working as a distraction.
I’ve never rewatched a movie or show, and also never really replayed video games after finishing them.
I also never crave playing or watching something specific. So I tend to go by whatever I have in my list or what’s new at the moment.
its a craving. it just is. maybe something stimulates it but from my experience it can be pretty random.
Is it possible for somebody to not experience such random cravings then? Probably it’s still based on some experience you had in the past no?
I dunno. Maybe chemicals or random firings of neurons.
Some people aren’t picky at all in my experience. Like my cousin Jack. He’s always ready for a meal and doesn’t care what it is as long and someone else is buying/cooking!
Evolution explains it. Hunger = need food. As we evolved, our needs got more complex and it’s no longer trivial to identify specific needs from behaviors. If you crave KFC, maybe your system needs sodium, protein, and 11 other herbs and spices. Boston Legal is a popular show because it makes many people’s brains produce some of the neurotransmitters they need at the moment. If you fall in love, your brain might think the person would maximize opportunities for reproducing over time. Different humans will fall in love for different reasons as their body attempts to satisfy different combinations of needs.
Makes sense that your body would let you know you need food when you are hungry. But can it really be that precise?
Does that come with experience, or with certain experiences of deprivation? I’ve heard something about pregnant women craving dirt because they don’t have enough iron or something?
But for me, I’ve never experienced it like that. Even if I don’t drink for a full day, I don’t even feel thirsty. I do feel hungry, but rarely for something so specific.
It’s not specific or precise. You cast a wide net to meet needs based on what your brain thinks you need and where you can get it. The part of your brain that says I’m thirsty might not work well but some other part convinces you to drink anyway, otherwise you wouldn’t be alive. Your nutrient needs can get met by a variety of sources. Maybe your system adapts well to just the basics. If it gets x proteins and y carbs, it’s happy. The part of a brain that develops cravings in other people hasn’t needed to develop in you. Or maybe stomachs needs a certain nutrient that yours produces naturally while others have to seek it out.
I usually drink when I have to take medication. Or when my friend who takes care of me tells me to drink.
I actually wanted to try to not drink anything for a day (or maybe two) just to see if there would be a specific feeling that pops up that makes it clear that i’m thirsty.
Haven’t tried that yet though, because it seems kinda dangerous maybe.
On my commute I like to play a game “what Iam in the mood for?” - I usually have to discard the first three things, then focus on foods I usually don’t think of.
First three if interested: fried chicken, tenders chocolate bar (Milka) and cake. Tho sometimes I do play what kinda cake I would want.
Usually I end up not eating anything ftom the list - but I have fun without gaining back weight.Probably your friend has a ‘background process’ that supplies him with what in the mood answers all the time.
I wouldn’t even be able to come up with 3 things.
I would just think, seems like I’m hungry or something. What should I do? Just go home and look at the fridge I suppose
It is more active thinking than conjuring out of thin air. Like when I pass by an Italian restaurant i will ask: carbonara? (Pizza is on the too easy answer list) Meatballs? Canolis? Passing a burger joint would make me think of which burger would I get… like do I want a chicken sandwich (then I would realize that it is again on the too easy list) or do I want the burger from Shake shack? Or in a mood for InnOut?
Who knows maybe if you try this method it will work for you. It doesn’t hurt or vosts money :D tho if you have bad impulse control I can’t guarantee that you won’t gain weight!That still sounds difficult. But maybe it’s just a skill I never practiced?
When I think of some specific place, I don’t really come up with example dishes, unless I check the menu.
Maybe that’s also the reason I never really needed impulse control to prevent me from indulging in something. I’ve always been somewhat underweight, and never smoked or drinked. Don’t drink caffeine either
Maybe you have a different trigger.
How about thinking about… Getting a 3d printer part, getting some new tool from a hardware store, getting a new game, trying a new table game, getting a new book, getting new equipment for … Sports / computing / gaming?
Edit: some more: getting new make up, trying a new sport or hobby, thinking of upcoming projects for yourself, hone decoration, gardening, getting a new kitchen gadget, looking for a new sourdough/beer/wine/cocktail recipe…Not really.
I mean I do like trying new things, but usually I don’t have energy for it. And when I think about something, I don’t really feel much, just analysing whether it would be useful for me.
I used to spend more time gaming. But recently I realised I didn’t really want to play any specific game, I was just gaming to avoid feeling uncomfortable. Focusing strongly on anything basically has the same effect.
I haven’t played any game for months now.
I understand it as “brain hunger” rather than actual hunger. Ideation around food noise, you know?
Brain hunger is a very good description IMO for what is probably a conditioned unhealthy dependency.
