This is very troubling, and I’m not even sure where to start. I recently received an email message from my ISP which alerted me to an incoming update. I didn’t worry too much since this is obviously not the first update they’ve ever pushed through.
However, after this update, I noticed that my guest connections and some other things had changed / disappeared. I logged on to my router, and I immediately noticed my custom password had been reset to the default. No problem, I entered it.
At this point, I saw that all of my options were greyed out. I could change the password, which I did, but nothing else. I immediately called my ISP.
I was told that I would have to use their app now, so as much as I dislike using proprietary phone apps, I conceded and installed the app through the Play store.
However, the agent was not entirely honest with me. I still can’t bifurcate my 2.4g and 5g connections, nor can I add or remove any guest connections. I immediately enabled “privacy mode” via the app, which purportedly prevents information from being collected by something called “HomePass,” and I “Delete[d] Guard events” whatever the hell that means, but this seems really troubling. I can no longer access my modem/router settings via the normal interface, but have to use an Android app?
There is only one other ISP in my area. They have much worse/slower service, but should I switch, or is this just the “new normal”? Does what I’m describing even make sense? I’m not a tech expert, but I feel like I’ve self-taught myself how to navigate these settings, and learned from others in online forums, but now … an Android app?
I’d appreciate any advice. I’d even be willing to purchase my own modem/router instead of using the one from my ISP, if that fixes this mess.
Edit: So I need my own router, at least. I did some research, and these are the ones I can get locally that are within my budget:
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TP-Link Archer AC1900 Dual-Band Mu-Mimo Wi-Fi Router with Gigabit Port
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Linksys AC1200 Dual Band WiFi 5 Router
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TP-Link Archer AX1500 WiFi 6 Dual-Band Wireless Router | up to 1.5 Gbps Speeds
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TP-Link Archer C54 | AC1200 MU-MIMO Dual-Band WiFi Router
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NETGEAR - Nighthawk AC1900 WiFi Router, 1.9Gbps (R6900) I’VE BEEN WARNED AGAINST NETGEAR THOUGH IN OTHER FORUMS
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TP-Link | AX1800 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 1.8 Gbps Speeds
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TP-Link Archer AX3000 | 4 Stream Dual-Band WiFi 6 Wireless Router | up to 3 Gbps Speeds
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Linksys E7350 AX1800 Wi-Fi 6 Wireless Router
Am I right in thinking the TP-Link AX3000 is best?
Edit 2: At first, I bought the Netgear AC1900, which seemed like a great deal. Turns out it was unusable without creating a netgear account, so I returned it in exchange for the TP-Link Archer AX1500, and it appears to be working! I got everything set up pretty close to the way it was before, except even better.
Once I save money, I’ll also invest in a different modem and return this one to my ISP.
This was a big wake-up call for me in terms of privacy. I never listened to people saying not to use your ISP’s equipment because I always trusted my ISP (it’s not one of the big name ones). Never trust a company. Lesson learned. I appreciate all the responses I got! This community is great!
Use that shit as a modem and get another device for your internals.
So I just got off a chat with an agent who tells me if I provide my own equipment that I will be able to use the settings as normal and delete the phone app, but that I have to use one from their supported modem list.
I’m thinking about the Arris SBG8300.
Arris makes good stuff. But that is just the cable modem. It will NOT provide any router protection for your home network. Your network topology should look like this:
ISP -> your cable modem -> your router -> everything else
Honestly, if you don’t have need for many ethernet connections, just get a wifi router with good reviews and the arris cable modem. Make sure the cable modem you pick up has the right DOCSIS version for the speed you are getting or plan to upgrade to. Your ISP will be able to tell you what version they are on.
Arris makes good stuff.
Except when they hardcode the challenge for logging into the admin console into their web frontend. To call the firmware code quality subpar would be an exaggeration.
Please forgive my ignorance, but this would need an additional wireless router? Isn’t it built into the device?
I do understand your flowchart, but it seems to me that this model covers both the modem and router aspects.
(To be clear, this might be my own ignorance. I do remember before they had modems with wireless built in, I would connect an additional wireless router, but I might be behind the times again.)
I would advise against a combo unit, what’s your provider, speed tier, and how much are you looking to spend? By the way, if you have a larger home/area you plan on covering, you’ll likely need to spend more.
So I’m not disclosing my provider’s name since I live in a sparsely populated area, and I try to avoid accidentally doxxing myself, but: https://librespeed.org/results/?id=085pib3
I could spend $50 - 100. Anymore than that, and I’d be scared of not making ends meet for the month.
I was mostly asking for the provider since they almost always have a small list of acceptable modems. Unless you can copy and paste the ones you know they’ll accept, it’ll be hard to know if they’ll allow it. Plus, buying a combo unit is usually a big mistake, as they tend to be garbage and overpriced. Buying separate sounds like extra steps, but from experience it’s the way to go.
Oh, I see! Here is the list. I don’t want to pressure you for advice, but if you have any, I’d sure like to hear it!
That would do both, but I wouldn’t buy that personally. Make’s troubleshooting a connection problem more difficult, and also if the device fails there’s two things you have to replace instead of just one. I’d go with a separate cable modem and router.
I know you’re on a budget, but avoid Intel puma based modems. The raw specs look good, they’re the only 8x32 channel docsis 3.0, but they have a big that causes a serious jitter.
https://lookgadgets.com/articles/intel-puma-modems-list/
Personally, I have an Arris S33. The 8200 is good too, those are both docsis 3.1 and more future-ready but $150+. The 8300 you mentioned is an Intel puma, so maybe keep looking. You might be stuck with a 24 channel modem.
Bookmarking this for reference when I’m ready to buy a modem
Run your own router. NEVER rent a router lol
If I gave you a list of the names of routers that are available to buy in my town and that are within my budget, do you think you would be so kind as to recommend one for me? There are so many and I really don’t know where to start
I promise I wouldn’t hold you accountable for my decision :P
Those “lists” are likely non-exhaustive. Virtually any combo will work given it works with the internet-protocol your ISP offers. My team prefers TP-Link routers for their update times, but ASUS/Netgear are both solid options as well.
I use a $250 VPN router because of my team’s interest in the dark web. I find it more helpful to put the entire network behind a wall than w/ each individual device. Imho?.. $250 was overkill for how much I pay my ISP for speeds. But this bad-boy is very future proof. https://www.tp-link.com/us/home-networking/wifi-router/archer-gx90/
Future-proof with at least a router (> WiFi 6) AND a modem. The combo-style ones are almost all bad (ymmv).
Many, many ISPs will lock internet to ONLY the mac-address of the modem/router, so make sure you change the address in settings. For instance, if a company ships you a router, the MAC of that router will be the only one that can connect from your address.
For TP-Link: 192.168.0.1 -> “Internet” Settings -> “MAC Clone” (Set the MAC address of your router. Use the default address unless your ISP allows internet access from only a specific MAC address)
Edit: Feel free to post any “options” from your ISP and what speeds/price they offer :)! If you’re only paying for <100Mb/s, a $250 router will be stupidly-overkill.
Edit2: TP-Link AX3000 WiFi 6 Router is my vote because it also has VPN capabilities if you need that in the future.
If you can, look into Ubiquiti. Their Unifi package is pretty comprehensive, and self-hostable.
If not, get an RPi with two Ethernet interfaces. Run raspbian, and learn IPTables/netfilter with masquerade. Put the WiFi in AP mode. Yes, it’ll suck but at least it’s not their router.
Save up a little bit and upgrade to a NUC with 2x Ethernet or some older HTPC with two Ethernet interfaces, it doesn’t need to be much. If it can run VMs, maybe you could run even run pfSense or DD-wrt on it. Get a managed switch that understands VLANs. Look into upgrading your WiFi to Ubiquiti Unfi APs with a local controller in a VM.
This is the way…
That looks nice, but ubiquiti is way outside what I can reasonably afford, unfortunately
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The AX3000 is actually on sale for $89, down from $130
Never use their router. Obviously for the issue you’re having now, but also for financial reasons. They charge ridiculous fees for renting their shit routers when buying one for like $120 will be a significant upgrade over there’s and will start saving money like 6 to 8 months in. Also it’s not tied to the company, so you get to keep it.
I even had the tech try to install their own router after I’d told them I’d be using my own hardware, and then he ARGUED with me that theirs was better and faster. Didn’t ask for your opinion, install the service the way I asked, I know what I’m talking about in this space.
I spent about $200 on a router and modem when I moved into my last apartment, they have already paid for themselves based on the fees that Xfinity would’ve charged to “rent” the equipment. Plus they’re significantly better than the equipment that isp’s provide
Never use the ISP provided equipment on your network. Even if you must use their modem and router, have them turn of the wifi, and connect your router to their garbage using the WAN port to connect from their LAN port with nothing else connected. If they refuse to turn off their wifi and you can’t do so through the admin, cover their crap in a Faraday cage to kill the signal. Always enter your own DNS settings on your router, never use their DNS. Make sure to use an encrypted DNS to avoid them hijacking it.
I’m pretty sure they can’t refuse. At least in the US. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I never saw a router without an Ethernet port
RJ45 isn’t the only connector.
You should out the ISP by name. Fuck those guys
I know, but like I’ve said before, that would also be a bad choice for me regarding my own personal privacy.
If I felt comfortable doing so, I would have named them immediately because I’m utterly disgusted with this shit.
OP, people often mention openwrt, but you can also buy a FreshTomato compatible router and also try that. It’s super user friendly, regularly updated, and has a significant amount of features you would likely never find on average routers, just like openwrt.
I really like using the VPN functionality and running an openVPN server and dynamic DNS setup so I can always connect my phones to a trusted VPN and backhaul my connection through home while I’m out and on a risky open connection.
As a Cybersecurity professional, I feel like it’s got a lot of good things going for it that I really appreciate, and you can control it without the ISP being able to intrude on your network.
I run my wired connections through that and use the router for DHCP, and then also have a separate mesh system for my wireless. I can set up separate virtual networks as needed and have them separated/isolated altogether, or allow specifically how I want them to see each other, etc.
You can even set up entirely different networks by port on the back of the router. Cool stuff. Openwrt is good too, but most people don’t know about FreshTomato I don’t think, it spun off of Tomato several years ago when those devs quit updating it.
Ooo, this is open source too? I’ve got to be honest, I’m a bit out of my depth, but I’m going to try to learn and understand.
Thanks for the recommendation. Kind of a bummer that my router isn’t supported by either this or openwrt.
Yep! It’s open source, which I really like. It’s updated almost monthly so is very active. I like how they quickly patch new vulnerabilities, IMO FreshTomato, and OpenWRT projects are exponentially better from a cybersecurity standpoint protecting you, the router manufacturers are so much slower at putting out updates to their stuff.
Never ceases to amaze me just how awful US ISPs are. Why do they get to behave like this? Are they local monopolies or something?
There’s one other big provider here, but it’s not nearly as fast or reliable, nor as easy to work with. Up until today, I always praised my ISP, but this is absolutely bonkers!
By comparison, I live in a small town in rural south east England. I could choose from any one of at least 12 different ISPs, all of whom offer gigabit fibre. And we’re relatively backward compared to mainland Europe.
We’re aggressively backward where I live.
@hedders @LinkOpensChest_wav if US citizen migrate to Europe for that reason, does that make them technical refugees? :)
Name and shame, dude. Your post is great and we need some proper nouns.
That’s unacceptable. I agree get a dumb modem from them and use your own Router/firewall/ access points
Not worth the hassle, replace the stupid router with an openwrt one
I was about to comment that I don’t know how to do that, but it looks like openwrt actually has its own forums.
Still not ready to do this on the spot, but this is another thing worth educating myself about, thanks
I got a MikroTik router and never looked back. That thing is amazing.
Edit: typo
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I just got off the chat with an agent who told me as much. If I provide my own modem/router, I will not have to use the app. I can change it via the normal way.
I’ve heard that Netgear isn’t good anymore, but I saw Arris SBG8300 on the list. I’m going to check prices and features before I decide for sure, but even though I’m poor, I’m not so poor that I’m just going to accept this. This is utter bullshit, and I’m considering switching ISP, even though the alternatives are slower and not as stable.
Sadly that’s how it works if you rent their eq. Your bill should drop if you drop their rental. Usually around 10 dollars for a rental most places.
Depending on your needs, you could get an older Netgear model (just check that it still gets firmware updates)
Talk to your ISP about getting a modem only, without a built-in router, then purchase a separate router of your own. All-in-one modem/router combos are generally kind of crap anyway, and one that your ISP can control directly is obviously a problem on top of that. I get why they’d do that: most users don’t know a damn thing about how to properly set up their network, and being able to change settings without walking the users through it would simplify things. Still crap, but I get why.
Even if you have to buy your own modem, definitely go for a modem-only device and a separate router. Personally I go the extra length of having a modem, a separate wired-only router, and a separate wireless access point for wifi. Combo devices have a habit of not managing memory well and needing to be reset more often.
I saw your edit are you able to get an asus router in your budget? Check Facebook and Craigslist. That’s gonna be the best brand you can buy with the most features. I got a little usb drive hooked up and it has a built in encrypted torrent Downloader. Mine is pretty expensive but I’m sure you can find a used one.
Another user recommended an ASUS. I’m probably not going to find one here on Facebook or Craigslist unless I travel to a bigger city, but I’ve had good luck on ebay. In fact, one of the reasons I lack money is that I just bought a laptop off ebay. I … kinda wish I hadn’t done that now, but who knew?
Like I told someone else, I’m probably going to prioritize getting my own modem now, but whenever I decide to upgrade my router, I can get an ASUS and then give this to a friend or neighbor and help them get set up.
Change iSP if you can, ans un any case you should use your own router running OpenWRT to have full control over your own network
It sounds like what you want is to either get a modem (either rented through the ISP or bought 3rd party, if your ISP supports it) and then ensure that this modem is in bridge mode without any sort of router features. That said, most places will just give you a dumb modem if you have no intention of using their router.
Then the other gear would be a router with the feature set you want. I personally am quite fond of my Mikrotik hap ac2 but the ac3 looks good too. I don’t use the Mikrotik for the wifi either (I use unifi for that), but it’s decent enough for a small space in a pinch.
Basically you would need to find out from your ISP if they allow you to bring your own gear – modem and/or router, with the router being the more important of the two and get their help to either swap your existing device into a bridge or getting you something that can.
