God, thank you. Arguing with libs is exhausting. They are completely unable to imagine that there are people who (due to social forces/their upbringing) can not be reached and just need to be silenced.

The reason Nazis and the KKK rally is partially the same reason the Westboro Baptist yell incendiary remarks: because it’s legal

Cool, shouldn’t be.

It gets recorded, then their recruitment surges and that person gets thrown in jail for battery charges while they bait lawsuits for damages. Being taken down physically doesn’t do jack shit.

Only because not enough people punch them. The fear that they instill in others should be instilled in them. Every time they say some shit they should be thinking “will this get me punched if i say this right now?” Every time.

Sorry, that’s not how it work. Again, review Brandenburg v. Ohio. Someone saying mean things to you that doesn’t amount to an imminent violence or a direct threat doesn’t warrant punching

I don’t care what the law says. It is wrong. “Bury the removeds” is inciting violence. I don’t care what a bunch of old fucks in 1969 said. They were wrong. You deserve to be punched if you call a black dude a “dirty removed”. If you disagree then we are at an impass. Law isn’t morality, it was illegal to take slaves to free states, it was illegal to hide Jews from nazis, it was legal to rape your wife till the 90s, it is illegal to punch bigots that call you a slur, and it’s legal to steal someone’s home in the west bank. The law is wrong in this case.

The problem is that you’re going about fighting fascism the wrong way. If you didn’t put the cart before the horse, then it should already be self-evident that fascism is wrong. So this requires going backwards and analyzing why your messaging strategy is failing. Why there is a vector into this radicalization in the first place. Is it genetic predisposition? (hopefully not or at least the bar for evidence is enormous, lest you’re a racist yourself). Is it simply a matter of environmental factors from low education to toxic parenting and diminished opportunity? No differently than the inner-city violence to the white Appalachian poverty & crime, this is probably more likely. So instead of going, “hur let’s punch nazis!”, perhaps we need to assess what are better strategies, from satire & mockery, to actually tackling the key vectors into which a “normie” gets radicalized in the first place. Is this as exciting? No. It’s the harder, more constructive work.

Did i ever say we should only punch them? All of the reasons they turn into Nazis need to be addressed, it’s social/economic, not genetic.

First it starts with, “punching an Israeli occupier to our land is okay!” and steadily progresses

Actually first it starts with being kicked from their homes and being forced into apartide. Were the slaves who killed their enslavers wrong for doing so?

Congrats, you discovered what feels good isn’t necessarily effective in your end goal.

Okay so I shouldn’t feed the homeless because the end goal is to fix homelessness and poverty and that requires systemic change? Fixing fascism requires systemic change but in the meantime we need to make them fear spreading their ideas. Fixing homelessness/hunger requires systemic change but in the meantime we should feed the homeless.

I love how this was completely and entirely deflected with a modicum of substance. Once again, proving the point that you’re in the “Punch a nazi” thing based on how it feels good to you — not because it actually yields productive results.

You literally said time is better served arguing online lmao. If you would have said canvassing or something (like you did in another comment) I would have agreed with you, but also. You can do both.

That’s how THEY would frame it, wrong though it may be. They then justify their actions because of this perceived preemptive intolerance. Naturally it’s total bullshit and what they’re really fighting for is the maintaining of their historically privileged positions in society. Still, that doesn’t change the underlying point I’m making. Both circumstances justify preemptive physical violence via ends-justify-the-means mentality.

Dude they frame it that way anyway so if changes nothing. It doesn’t matter. How many of the past few shooters have they accused of being trans based on nothing just so they can frame it like they’re fighting for their existence. Like they scream white genocide at every turn they get.

I mean fuck, man, we teach our kids the same shit: That crossing the verbal-physical barrier of aggression is a no-go with your siblings. Now if they throw the actual first physical punch, then sure.

Because kids aren’t mature enough to grasp nuance and fully understand when words are violent. And frankly? I’m going to teach my kids that it’s okay to punch people that call them or someone else a slur. Maybe not until they’re early teens (because again nuance), but it’s not okay to call someone a “dirty removed” like the old white fucks (and one old black fuck) who decided your coveted Brandenburg v. Ohio thought. Because unlike them and unlike you I do not tolerate the intolerant

The justice system is failing by allowing them to spew and spread their intolerance. They are creating a society that make minorities fear (look at Springfield with literal kkk fliers going around). We should create a society where the intolerant are fearful of spreading their message.

And nobody suggested carte blanche except you and the person you’re supporting (aka a strawman). A punch isn’t a gunshot, it isn’t a stabbing, and it isn’t torture. Their violent rhetoric should be met with violence to make them fear spreading their message.

When the law doesnt align with what’s right then relying on the law is pointless. The law will defend their ability to spread intolerance because the law is tolerant of the intolerant.

Some of you here sound really young — like under 20 — and you’ve just recently learned about this concept and it’s blowing your mind and so you repeat for lack of a better, deeper understanding.

Wrong. Not giving my age on here but you’re way off the mark here

Yet I say again the untouched point: It does not give you carte blanche to react however you see fit.

Here is the biggest strawman, I never said you could do whatever. Don’t rape them, don’t torture them, hell even killing is too far 99% of the time. Fascists thrive on being viewed as strong men and nothing is more humiliating to them than being taken down physically. Words mean nothing to the antisemite

Across the globe we’ve sustained tolerant societies for quite a degree of time without a law that says, “to maintain civil order, we must all punch Nazis, or worse.”

And yet here we are in 2024 with the far right rising globally and “counter protesting harder and voting harder” has done nothing to stop the spread of their messages

Yes, people should be intolerant to intolerance; but there still requires a degree of proportionality at play here. Punching a Nazi violates countless other laws of society we’ve identified for ourselves that help to also maintain a tolerant society, and until that Nazi punches someone themselves, then there is no reciprocation.

Their words are violence. Physical is not the only form of violence. They make minorities fear going outside. It is proportional to make them fear spreading their message through the only means they understand. They are violating the social contract they are no longer covered by the contract

It’s a bait that often leads to martyrdom and increased recruitment. They take said video and go, “look at the tolerant left! Look at their hypocritical ideals about free speech!”

When was the last time you heard from Richard Spencer in a serious/public manner? For me it was not too long after he got humiliated by a fist in the face.

The bar for evidence of vigilante justice is tenuous at best, and you may attack someone innocent, or more importantly someone who may escape from the propaganda in time but now may simply double-down

Or, more likely, the someone who git hit now thinks twice about saying that shit publicly because the remember the feeling of fist on skull. Also innocent? Its not hard to tell when someone is spreading intolerance so that’s not likely to happen

This doesn’t hold up in court. You will get charged with battery and receive a felony while the nazi goes free.

Congrats you discovered law isn’t morality. I will happily give the homeless food in cities where that is illegal.

Your time is better served dismantling the rhetoric online.

Lol, lmao even

Don’t become what you hate. Ironically the rhetoric you use here is also the logical loophole for which right-wing extremists rationalize their violence as to why they are the good guys.

Really? They believe you should only attack the intolerant? I thought they wanted to attack me a trans person for existing in front of society, or interacting with children, or because I’m simply an abomination.

contact the police and allow actual justice to take place

And when the police are KKK? When the police are the Nazis? This is such a privileged perspective it’s not even funny. “Cawl the poweeeeccee” as if they haven’t historically sided with the intolerant. You have so much faith in the justice system. Law isn’t morality it’s an enforcement of what those in power want.

This is also ignoring that intolerance isn’t illegal. So cops won’t do shit and might even arrest you for wasting their time. Fucking libs I swear. Don’t worry about it someone will do the punching for you while you stay back and call the cops for them to shoot a nearby dog or arrest the black person in the situation.

Also I said why other than law because I assumed you knew that law doesn’t function to enforce tolerance. Clearly I overestimated you.

The social contract only applies to the tolerent. By allowing the intolerant to spread their hate you allow them to spread their ideas. Physical violence isn’t the only kind of violence. Allowing the intolerant to speak intolerance you are being tolerent of the intolerant.

intolerance to intolerance does not grant carte blanche reaction.

Intolerance of intolerance is the only way to maintain a tolerant society.

If you see a KKK person expressing free speech, one cannot simply shoot them.

Give me a reason you can’t other than law (and I’m ignoring you jumping from punching to shooting)

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>naïve people on Jan 5th 2021

What game? Love me some old HL/source mods.

Blanks won’t kill from the distance the shooter was positioned

“We go high you go low”

And when they dismantle the government and march people off to internment camps you’ll be able to smile proud and say “at least I didn’t stoop to their level”

Right?

If people were convinced by facts and logic we wouldn’t have had trump as president and the ADF wouldn’t have any power in Germany. Snappy soundbites are necessary. Why do you think you heard 13/50 everywhere? Because it’s easy to remember and it sounds good. Same thing with 41%. You’ll be hard pressed to find someone that’s willing to do a whole bunch of reading to understand why ACAB unless they are already predisposed to believe you. 40% is a potential gateway in, and when they are along that path and see all the problems with cops, it won’t really matter when they find out that the 40% wasn’t true.

So go ahead, be disappointed, go ahead downvote, or whatever. But if you think winning only involves playing fair and honest you have another thing coming and it’s very far right from what you want.

Like I said, I’m gonna be that person.

don’t belong in civilized society.

It’s not like we’re ever going to reach that civilized society with the way everything is sliding to the right. It’s also not like they don’t already plan on removing me, so feel free to remove me once you have your civilized society, until then I’ll be here.

I’m gonna be that person right now, but i really don’t care if it’s a misleading or misquoted stat. If they get to throw around 13/50 or that trans suicide number without any care to the actual reasons I’m gonna throw around 40% self report to domestic abuse. Just like you can’t stop them, you can’t stop me. It’d be different if I had a platform of some kind, but I don’t. If someone finds out misrepresented something oh well, they’ll fine the correct info eventually and by that point they may have been swayed to our side by doing further digging. Go ahead and down vote internet numbers mean nothing to me.

BTW did you know that 40% of cops abuse their spouse?

In what way are both sides unhappy?

Except her pre-transition fastest 1000 free was faster than the record for female 1000 free.

To add on to that. Her pre-transition time was ~24 seconds slower than the male record and post transition her 1000 free was about 32 seconds slower than the female record. So if anything she was preforming better in her categories before she transitioned.

My family is black you ding dong that’s not “having a black friend” that’s having people related to you that are effected. But i guess people like you literally only care about things that personally effect them

And only self inflated idiots care that much about grammar

Oh my god your mor pathetick then i thoght. Corecting grammer online and folloing my replys

Following my replies lmao you’re literally pathetic. It doesn’t matter if i do or don’t, you don’t need to be personally effected to be an ally, but I do have black relatives and mentally ill relatives if that makes you feel better