Yes. It’s certainly less of a problem in an agrarian society where nearly everyone provides simple labour, but in any technical or urban society, being able to focus on complex tasks is going to improve your quality of life. Of course the degree of impact and the nature of the problem is going to vary widely depending on the fabric of that society. It would look different, indeed.
Yes. It impacts people in ways that have negative impacts that don’t vanish if the environment changes. Here’s an expert talking about the negative outcomes. It’s not just career and finance, but also relationships, education, and safety (especially when it comes to driving and sex).
I was just recently diagnosed with ADHD at 34 years old, and medication has had a huge impact on my whole life. While it has increased productivity while at my job, I’ve also been able to complete more personal projects in my free time. A properly working executive function is extremely important in all aspects of life. I’d continue to medicate even if I was living in a Startrek esque socialist utopia. I agree that ADHD can often be over diagnosed, but for those of us who are correctly diagnosed, treatment is lifechanging.
That’s kind of what I’m getting at. I think the complexity and pace of modern society is causing these issues. You don’t typically blame the square peg for not fitting in the round hole.
I think the complexity and pace of modern society is causing these issues.
A double-edged sword. If you lived a life alone in the forest you wouldn’t be beholden to anyone else, and thus something like missing an important date would not matter one bit. However you choose to spend your time is not going to affect anyone other than yourself, so it’s all good.
But, on the flip side, a common trait in ADHD is hyperfocus, which our complex modern society is very amenable to. Letting others help means not having to worry about growing the food to feed you and preparing your shelter to shelter you. That means you can turn all of your attention to something more productive, more complex, that is beneficial to all of society. In fact, many of the people who have done world changing things are considered likely to have/have had ADHD. It seems probable that such pursuits would be impossible for someone who does not have hyperfocusing abilities. There is only so much time in the day.
Perhaps having the ability to change the world is not an issue at all and is actually the ideal state? And if that means you forget to pay a bill and someone gets pissy about it… Oh well? That’s their problem. As with absolutely everything in life, there are tradeoffs to be made. You can never have it all. What would we say is the most suitable trade to make here?
Complexity was never an issue for my ADHD. Lack of interest in things I do not find interesting leading to forgetfulness and the inability to keep small, uninteresting details straight was the issue.
They actually don’t. They create a short term boost to certain aspects of cognitive functioning. While, in theory, this improves performance, in practice, it is often bottlenecked elsewhere.
It’s like giving a rally car more engine power. Without the ability to get that power to the wheels, it’s, at best, useless, at worst counterproductive. It might feel like you have more speed, but your lap times will be worse.
On top of this, you have the body’s homeostasis systems. In a normal brain, they will correct for the effects of the stimulant. This pulls the system back to its original state, leading to things like caffeine addiction. In the ADHD brain, their homeostasis systems are tapped out, they can’t get the brain to an optimal state. The stimulant provides an artificial push, that takes a load off of other corrective systems.
It’s akin to glasses. Someone can learn to see through glasses, when they don’t need them. However, someone who does need them will gain a permanent improvement from them.
Yes. Thank you. There have been plural studies (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.add4165, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/, and many more, these are literally just the first google results), showing that perscription stimulants have a negligible, or even negative, effect on productivity in neurotypical populations. Their reputation as a “smart drug” has been greatly exaggerated.
This is also a valid question, the systemic pressure to “be productive” puts a lot of weight on the side of taking meds despite side effects. Anecdotally though, some ADHD patients do find meds useful for helping them maintain interpersonal relationships and the like, not just focus on work.
Yes 100%, it’s a executive functioning disorder which affects things like emotional regulation and impulse control, it’s not as simple as being easily distracted there’s so much more to the condition.
For me, emotional regulation and impulse control are my struggles, all of which would be a problem even without capatilism. I was late diagnosed at 31, but meds have been the single biggest change for me in combination with therapy, my anxiety and ruminating thoughts basically totally disappeared overnight. Is it a magic cure all? No not at all, I still absolutely have ADHD, it’s just enabling me to handle it without relying on the maladaptive coping mechanisms I developed in the past.
Pre meds, in retrospect, my ADHD was 100% a strain on my relationship, there’s a lot to dive into for details but I know I’m not alone there.
I’m not sure since it would be happening post-capitalism. PTSD doesn’t clear up once the way ends, you know? Would ADHD even exist in a closed, perfect environment where a person’s intellectual and emotional needs are met? Does ADHD exist in small, non-developed villages and communities?
Would ADHD even exist in a closed, perfect environment where a person’s intellectual and emotional needs are met?
Meaning some science fiction post-scarcity world where you can get everything you need by magic? ADHD would exist, but it is likely fair to say that it could easily go unnoticed. ADHD most stands out by its impact to interaction with other people. If you have no reason to interact with other people, then you can likely avoid the impact. It is possible for ADHD to even impact one’s own personal interaction with themselves, but without interaction with other people, you’re not apt to know what you are doing is any different.
But ending capitalism by transferring capital away from private interests to community interests is not that. All it would see is moving the capital to community interests. That capital still needs the exact same human involvement to maintain function. You are still going to go to work like you always did. You are still going to have to remember to pay your bills like you always have. There is no magic in that – just a slightly modified legal system.
Does ADHD exist in small, non-developed villages and communities?
A non-developed village won’t know what ADHD is to diagnose it, but the qualities will be present in some people. I mean, ADHD is thought to be genetic, so if that community doesn’t have the right gene line it might not exist, but I don’t think that’s what you mean.
Would ADHD be considered a problem if capitalism wasn’t in charge of society?
Yes. It’s certainly less of a problem in an agrarian society where nearly everyone provides simple labour, but in any technical or urban society, being able to focus on complex tasks is going to improve your quality of life. Of course the degree of impact and the nature of the problem is going to vary widely depending on the fabric of that society. It would look different, indeed.
Yes. It impacts people in ways that have negative impacts that don’t vanish if the environment changes. Here’s an expert talking about the negative outcomes. It’s not just career and finance, but also relationships, education, and safety (especially when it comes to driving and sex).
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
expert
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I was just recently diagnosed with ADHD at 34 years old, and medication has had a huge impact on my whole life. While it has increased productivity while at my job, I’ve also been able to complete more personal projects in my free time. A properly working executive function is extremely important in all aspects of life. I’d continue to medicate even if I was living in a Startrek esque socialist utopia. I agree that ADHD can often be over diagnosed, but for those of us who are correctly diagnosed, treatment is lifechanging.
That’s kind of what I’m getting at. I think the complexity and pace of modern society is causing these issues. You don’t typically blame the square peg for not fitting in the round hole.
A double-edged sword. If you lived a life alone in the forest you wouldn’t be beholden to anyone else, and thus something like missing an important date would not matter one bit. However you choose to spend your time is not going to affect anyone other than yourself, so it’s all good.
But, on the flip side, a common trait in ADHD is hyperfocus, which our complex modern society is very amenable to. Letting others help means not having to worry about growing the food to feed you and preparing your shelter to shelter you. That means you can turn all of your attention to something more productive, more complex, that is beneficial to all of society. In fact, many of the people who have done world changing things are considered likely to have/have had ADHD. It seems probable that such pursuits would be impossible for someone who does not have hyperfocusing abilities. There is only so much time in the day.
Perhaps having the ability to change the world is not an issue at all and is actually the ideal state? And if that means you forget to pay a bill and someone gets pissy about it… Oh well? That’s their problem. As with absolutely everything in life, there are tradeoffs to be made. You can never have it all. What would we say is the most suitable trade to make here?
Complexity was never an issue for my ADHD. Lack of interest in things I do not find interesting leading to forgetfulness and the inability to keep small, uninteresting details straight was the issue.
Stimulants improve the productivity of everyone.
They actually don’t. They create a short term boost to certain aspects of cognitive functioning. While, in theory, this improves performance, in practice, it is often bottlenecked elsewhere.
It’s like giving a rally car more engine power. Without the ability to get that power to the wheels, it’s, at best, useless, at worst counterproductive. It might feel like you have more speed, but your lap times will be worse.
On top of this, you have the body’s homeostasis systems. In a normal brain, they will correct for the effects of the stimulant. This pulls the system back to its original state, leading to things like caffeine addiction. In the ADHD brain, their homeostasis systems are tapped out, they can’t get the brain to an optimal state. The stimulant provides an artificial push, that takes a load off of other corrective systems.
It’s akin to glasses. Someone can learn to see through glasses, when they don’t need them. However, someone who does need them will gain a permanent improvement from them.
Yes. Thank you. There have been plural studies (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.add4165, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/, and many more, these are literally just the first google results), showing that perscription stimulants have a negligible, or even negative, effect on productivity in neurotypical populations. Their reputation as a “smart drug” has been greatly exaggerated.
This is also a valid question, the systemic pressure to “be productive” puts a lot of weight on the side of taking meds despite side effects. Anecdotally though, some ADHD patients do find meds useful for helping them maintain interpersonal relationships and the like, not just focus on work.
Yes 100%, it’s a executive functioning disorder which affects things like emotional regulation and impulse control, it’s not as simple as being easily distracted there’s so much more to the condition.
For me, emotional regulation and impulse control are my struggles, all of which would be a problem even without capatilism. I was late diagnosed at 31, but meds have been the single biggest change for me in combination with therapy, my anxiety and ruminating thoughts basically totally disappeared overnight. Is it a magic cure all? No not at all, I still absolutely have ADHD, it’s just enabling me to handle it without relying on the maladaptive coping mechanisms I developed in the past.
Pre meds, in retrospect, my ADHD was 100% a strain on my relationship, there’s a lot to dive into for details but I know I’m not alone there.
A good question. If, say, ownership of the capital was transferred to community interests, what do you see changing for those struggling with ADHD?
I’m not sure since it would be happening post-capitalism. PTSD doesn’t clear up once the way ends, you know? Would ADHD even exist in a closed, perfect environment where a person’s intellectual and emotional needs are met? Does ADHD exist in small, non-developed villages and communities?
Meaning some science fiction post-scarcity world where you can get everything you need by magic? ADHD would exist, but it is likely fair to say that it could easily go unnoticed. ADHD most stands out by its impact to interaction with other people. If you have no reason to interact with other people, then you can likely avoid the impact. It is possible for ADHD to even impact one’s own personal interaction with themselves, but without interaction with other people, you’re not apt to know what you are doing is any different.
But ending capitalism by transferring capital away from private interests to community interests is not that. All it would see is moving the capital to community interests. That capital still needs the exact same human involvement to maintain function. You are still going to go to work like you always did. You are still going to have to remember to pay your bills like you always have. There is no magic in that – just a slightly modified legal system.
A non-developed village won’t know what ADHD is to diagnose it, but the qualities will be present in some people. I mean, ADHD is thought to be genetic, so if that community doesn’t have the right gene line it might not exist, but I don’t think that’s what you mean.