It was a total mess of a situation with no 100% morally correct solution. I think she did the closest to the right thing though.
Related…I don’t understand the hate this episode gets. Treck is at its Treckiest when it’s weird future moral dilemmas.
People argue about it instantly decades later. That proves it was effective.
All it proves was that the dilemma itself is effective.
The episode and its resolution are crap, because they don’t justify her decision. They leave it to the viewer. They do a disservice to everyone involved.
People don’t hate the episode, they hate the “debate.”
It’s clear to me that if a sentient crewmate says “please don’t kill me” you should not murder them, no matter how grief stricken you are.
Tuvok and Neelix were dead.
(I do like this episode)
‘Dead’ is a very fluid boundary. More so than usual, in this case.
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They was a voyager episode too.
There is no morality or immorality in it, she is responsible for her crew, tuvix wasn’t crew but the other two were.
You didn’t murder anything, we have several examples of transporter patterns living out their lives in holodeck simulations.
If someone’s heart stopped in a hospital, then an alien possessed their dead body and said “I was just born, this is my body now, your guy was dead” I don’t think anyone would argue that the person’s heart could very much be restarted (assuming otherwise healthy) and the alien has no right to use someone else’s bits.
A better analogy would probably be, if an alien used the body of a cryogenically frozen person that we KNEW could be revived with 100% certainty.
Tuvix wasn’t some alien body snatcher who possessed the bodies of the deceased. He was literally Tuvok and Neelix living on in a new form, which comprised a third entity.
In killing Tuvix, Janeway also murdered both Neelix and Tuvok.
What she did, in essence, was to murder three people to bring back two.
They were not dead in any way, that is like a major issue if the episode.
There being a method of resurrection doesn’t make a person any less dead. They were dead, but Janeway the necromancer knew how to bring them back to life. All it took was a sacrifice.
They never died, ever.
Patterns merged, both wholes remained whole they just mingled together in such a way that created a third party. Tuvix is quite literally a schizophrenic fever dream for both originals…
Janeway made the right call, no one wanted that Tuvix weirdo around, that’s why no one came to his defense.
It’s okay to murder people who are unpopular.
The gigachad viewpoint has arrived.
And you’re next!
Tuvix was 50% Neelix which qualifies him for the death penalty. The real travesty is that Neelix was allowed to exist afterwards. /s
Janeway made the right call, Tuvok and Neelix had their own lives and families and they could be saved. Tuvok was also a majorly important member of the crew and his skills could easily have been instrumental to their salvation.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Tuvix needs to continue existing.
Tuvok and Neelix need to exist again outweighing Tuvix’s need
The crew needs to be saved from Neelix’s cooking and general incompetence, which have proved to be a more consistent threat than the borg. Thus, Tuvok and Neelix’s needs are outweighed.
Janeway needs Tuvok to be there to talk her out of doing impulsive things like starting wars, causing civilizations to fall, buttfucking the timeline, or murdering crew members. This effects whole worlds, so the needs of the crew are outweighed.
They once showed Neelix taking a bath, and there is a chance (however small) that he might do it again. The audience’s need to not risk seeing that outweighs all the previous needs.
Duplicate Tuvix, divide the duplicate at the moment it is formed and before it achieves self awareness, execute Neelix. What’s the issue?
Janeway gets to “execute” someone and we get both Tuvok & Tuvix, win win win
I was reflexively mad reading the start of this comment but by the end you had me 100% sold on your analysis.
Your mom outweighs the needs of the many
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Of course Janeway made the right choice. Anyone who says otherwise is either trolling or sexist. No one would care if it was Picard splitting Guiker or Sisko splitting Quira.
Can you imagine an episode where Picard doesn’t agonize over this decision for 22 minutes and ultimately not do it? The guy spared the Borg.
Picard would have justified his choice. Janeway didn’t even try.
That’s not an indictment of Janeway, but of the lazy writers of that episode.
It’s the No Stametses Club, we’re allowed to have one.
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Tuvix was an atrocity and extinguishing it would have been morally correct even if it had not resulted in numerically more living beings.
That and, specifically, Tuvix probably suggested promoting Ensign Kim.
Manpower is crucial when you’re stranded, definitely the right choice, a two for one deal!
Is this Quark’s account? 100% Ferengi thinking you got there.
Look, there’s no way Tuvok didn’t have “under no circumstances is my body, my mind, my soul, my organs, my DNA, or any products thereof to be integrated into any form, permutation, or byproduct of Nelix” in his last will and testament. Therefore, Tuvix had to go.
If only they could recreate the transporter accident that makes a perfect copy of a person. Then all that has to happen is to take the clone and split it before it realizes anything.
That way EVERYONE could exist together.
That’s exactly what I’ve been telling people for ages regarding the Tuvix issue. Simple, yet effective.
Somebody made a full video explaining why that would make stuff twice as bad https://youtu.be/17cbC1AR7FE?si=StNEBon_i88Pt1hm
I didn’t realize that Allison Pregler was still making videos post Channel Awesome fiasco. I always liked her movie and show reviews back in the day. Thanks for the recommend!
I can now see how I could be VERY clearly wrong in every way on the Tuvix topic from another perspective…
Most of the crew dies offscreen, they just keep duplicating them all the time.
I could see Janeway being based and using it that way
It could also solve the need for clones of the Vorta. The Dominion could just pop another one out of the buffer and not have to depend on cloning facilities.
God I didn’t even think of that. Instant army. Altho, for that matter, you could also just use a replicator to fabricate an instant army of killbots.
I wonder if killbots would be better than the Jem’hadar. Certainly a Jem’killbot cyborg would be better than both.
I’m sure the Dominion put that to the test at some point.
Though with the power of the dominion, it wouldn’t shock me if they invented the borg that way and the time shenanigans happened
She’s just following Spock’s wisdom.
2>1. The needs of the many, yadda yadda…
Bye dear Stamets, it’s been lovely knowing ya! /s
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Lol, so given the basic trolley dilemma, you just gon run over as many as you can. In this case 2.
It’s called multitrack drifting.
I think tuvix was asking for it. Remember that time he swapped out Janeway’s bra for a slightly smaller one. And it irritated her to the point she committed genocide on the breegans. He knew what was coming.
Ha yeah. Classic Tuvix. He got the whole section on double secret probation for that one.
