Zoom’s updated policy states that all rights to Service Generated Data are retained solely by Zoom. This extends to Zoom’s rights to modify, distribute, process, share, maintain, and store such data “for any purpose, to the extent and in the manner permitted under applicable law.”, including AI and Machine Learning.
The real trouble here is got vague the term “user generated content” is.
Does that include recordings of meetings? Does that include files or messages over chat during calls? Does it include names of those attending calls?
With it being so vague, you have to assume the worst possible case, which sucks for anyone who uses Zoom.
yeah I think it means … ALL OF IT.
also double sucks because a lot of people have no choice but to use zoom. jobs require it.
They wont for long if their legal departments see that. We already arent allowed to record meetings with zoom where i work, and are going to teams.
Its the people who lose in this one
If you have to use it for work, it is not your issue, but your employer’s.
Still, I will be surprised if zoom will apply this rule to corporate customers.
Yeah, but if you’re interviewing for a job, it IS your problem, no?
Good point: n this case it is 50/50, I would say. Interview is unlikely, your private discussion. Not sure to what degree interview discussion “belongs” to the interviewing company.
Moreover, if you think that company uses wrong tools, you can simply reject interview.
But doesn’t this term of use mean that you don’t own anything, zoom owns everything?
I think zoom do not want to own everything, it simply wants to be able to use this data to improve their services and stay relevant. Ms teams had a lot of ml bases features already.
But how is this related to the contents of my comment?
They can’t be that stupid. Many companies that use zoom do it to discuss with clients, in conversations that are expected to be private and confidential. Training an ai might mean leaking some of this content, unless it’s an AI used exclusive internally at zoom. They better not use recording of meetings, unless they are ready to pay lawyers for years
Who the fuck is dumb enough to use zoom for anything classified and confidential.
Soldiers were sharing nuclear secrets in flash card apps.
Just because someone has a secret clearance, doesn’t mean they’ve ever been told that the entire Internet is siphoning their data in any way possible.
Department of Defense
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Unrelated, you’re my favourite game ever and I love you and miss you and I’d pay so much for a pre-re server without a cash shop at maybe 2-5k total players.
I love you too and each winter I make a habit of hopping on a p-server and enveloping myself in nostalgia. I’m still waiting for an RO Lemmy community.
Let me know if you ever start playing again and I’ll be your buddy.
Ugh I would love that soooo much. Did you play iRO back in the early ‘00s?
I did! I played it for 3-4 years around the mid-to-early 2000s.
So many great memories of LoE and going on MVP hunts with my monk. Not to mention the super fun holiday events. I still haven’t had a game hit the same spot as Ragnarok during Christmas 2004.
SAAAAME
I started on Chaos, but my home was Sakray.
I WAS ON CHAOS TOOOOO! Were you in any particular alliance (or guild or clan or whatever they called it)? I was only in a small one called “Phenix Rising”. But it didn’t last super long.
I was a guileless roamer Wizard on Chaos, because it felt soooo big! I didn’t get deep in guilds and community until moving over to little Sakray.
Sakray was my high school life. I made friends I still love today. It honestly probably saved my life. I wouldn’t be where I am, wouldn’t be married to the person I’m with, and might not even be alive if not for Ragnarok and the connections I made there.
I’m getting an RO tattoo shortly. I haven’t decided exactly what, yet. I don’t want a pantless fox girl on my flesh or I’d get Moonlight, easily. Possibly Eddga? Maybe Bapho, I love the way it is stylized. Maybe a Sting, because I spent more time SD’ing Stings than probably any other grinding spot in the game… aside from Elder Willows, I suppose.
Maybe just a tiny image of a card on the floor.
During the early part of 2020 I moved my classes onto Zoom. Because of this change, I’ll be moving my video conferencing elsewhere. What’s with companies destroying themselves while attempting to maximize profits. Just another reddifugee on kbin.social. SMH.
FOSS Zoom Alternatives -
https://itsfoss.com/open-source-video-conferencing-tools/
https://www.makeuseof.com/open-source-video-conferencing-software/
The term “enshittification” comes to mind.
Cory Doctorow is a smart man and I’m glad he’s around to educate us.
The term “enshittification” is as common on Lemmy as “play stupid games…” is on Reddit.
It’s a much less stupid word/phrase, though, so that’s fine with me.
thanks for sharing, looks like some good alternatives here.
Man the modern internet is a privacy nightmare.
I’m sure companies will be interested in hearing this, especially those with regulatory requirements.
Yeah WTF? Companies that have medical data, other PII… they’re going to have to cancel their Zoom contracts right? I guess that’s up to their lawyers to interpret/decide.
As someone who works at a company with relevant regulatory obligations, I plan on forwarding this article to our infosec team tomorrow.
Considering courts have been using Zoom since COVID…I am dying to see what happens. Will Zoom clarify that it doesn’t collect/utilize meeting recordings to train AI? Is it going to exactly that and force anyone conducting sensitive business to find a new platform?
This feels like a remarkably bad move, both for privacy and for Xoom’s own business concerns, unless I’m missing something.
Xoom
Ha ha not yet!
Wait till Elon Musk buys it…
Wat
Won’t be an issue for courts. In fact, the original text prediction software came from the Enron Corpus - a trove of emails gathered by the FERC during their lawsuit against Enron.
Now, companies will absolutely not be friendly about this. The number one reason most companies are hesitant to AI is because they don’t want to risk giving sensitive data to an outside company.
Host yourselves
Do you know if they support disabling things like auto-equalization of audio or changing the bitrate? I use zoom for music lessons because they’re the only one I’ve ever found that will let me do that, which sucks because zoom really isn’t that great of an app
As a user, I liked webex more than any other video conferencing software. But IDK how much adjustment it allows.
I looked at them too but couldn’t find an obvious way to get it from Cisco without buying a license big enough to share with everyone I know lol
My understanding is that my employer dropped webex because it was more expensive than others. I think we only use Teams now which works but not as well as webex.
Yeah and that’s my problem I only need one 2 person conference a week and webex is like using a nuclear bomb to go fishing price wise
Just a thought: Explain your needs to Jitsi devs. Or other software linked here. Maybe they could cater to a niche market to get more market share. Or offer a free music lesson for their trouble.
Must be an email address on their site somewhere.
Update: they have a very active github for the desktop app, and they had a fix almost immediately. There are webAPI calls that can be appended to the end of the meeting link before starting. If your link for example is “https://meet.jit.si/myLesson” you can append the following string:
#config.disableAP=true&config.disableAEC=true&config.disableNS=true&config.disableAGC=true&config.disableHPF=true&config.stereo=trueand this will disable all the audio processing that could harm the meeting. You will probably want headphones though as it will cause a lot of echoes if it can hear anything from the meeting.
Figured I’d leave this here in case anyone else was looking for a similar solution.
EDIT: Lemmy keeps adding “amp;” after each & symbol. Those are incorrect but so far I’m failing to get the thing to stop doing it every time I hit post. Those should be removed for a working link. Try this link to see how it should look.
That is a good idea I’ll hunt around for where to request it later today!
Yay Jitsi!!
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It’s not that easy, because you are dependent on the person / organization setting up the conference. Privately I would never use it, but I often follow webinars and information sessions hosted by an multinational organization, and these are always held via Zoom. So it would be a “take it or leave it” approach. I would not even know to whom to refer to ask for an alternative option.
I havent used zoom in like two years. Every meeting I’ve attended has been either MS Teams or Google Meet.
I should just tell our CEO then that I refuse to use Zoom and fail to show to any and all meetings as well as tasks which require Zoom? That’s it then. Privacy is saved.
Well, if you’re in the EU you could tell your DPO and they should take action to prevent your company from using Zoom from now on.
I’m in Asia. Idk how our company is going to handle this (or if they care) but we do have a meeting this week so I may mention it again (if I get a chance to).
Tell your IT guys that zoom permanently records all meetings and they will use it for financial gain in the future, potentially including corporate blackmail. Ask the people in charge if price is worth continued business with using the software.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I probably won’t add the blackmail stuff. I’m still thinking how to go about it, tbh. Last time I brought it up was when they were thinking of switching due to cost and I mentioned the privacy issues. I think Zoom recording meetings would at least give them pause (I hope), but I still need to make it as believable as possible and give an alternative that’s already widely used (for customers and clients).
Sure.
Interestingly, it is illegal for any party to record a phone call in my jurisdiction without notifying all the parties. Zoom would be in violation of this law.
Prolly look for another 9-5 gig before you stop showing up in meetings .
Went to Infocomm this year, the audio / video trade show, to get the lay of the land on next generation conference systems.
The two main elements at almost every booth were zoom and teams. Those two platforms have completely replaced IP based conferencing, and when the tide turns like this, no matter how bad the idea, we’re stuck with it for five to ten years.
On both the hardware and software level, there just isn’t an alternative for corporate scale conferencing.
I may be able to make the argument against zoom for privacy reasons, but I suspect teams isn’t going to be any better.
Have you tried Cisco Webex?
It’s not so much a function of try, and yes, I’ve used it. It’s the fact that during lock down the whole company used Zoom and Teams, and changing systems now would take an act of God far above my paygrade.
Historically, Tandberg, later acquired by Cisco, was hands down the best video conference codec. I have no doubt their new line is just as good.
I can try forwarding this info to network security and see what they think.
I’ve always liked Google Meet better anyway. Hopefully Google don’t decide to scrap it too, because while it seems like it is going to stick around, they do really like scrapping projects…
edit: Nevermind, I forgot people aren’t allowed to have preferences. I understand Google is evil, and their web extensions is literally going to kill the Internet, but you can’t tell me that millions of people aren’t using Gmail.
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But Google takes their security super seriously, and the only person they’re sharing our data with is the government.
That’s not a good thing, but if you need a chat app that pretty much everyone already has installed, for non-sensitive conversations, you could do much worse than Google Meet.
Lol who uses google meet now? Try jitsi meet
Last year, my whole company switched to jitsi.
Solves 90% of our use cases and open-sourced enough to expand on it.
do you host it in house? what compression does it use?
@skilledtothegills would be forbidden for them to train on actual content from calls under EU law, as it would be in breach of the ePrivacy Directive (read alongside something called the European Electronic Communications Code, which gives similar obligations to ‘over-the-top’ providers as to classic telecoms). Not that US tech firms have a great history of adhering to EU law.
That’s a very zoomy thing to do given what we’ve seen the company do so far. If they can figure out a new way profit from stabbing you in the back, they absolutely will go for it.
This is terrible for privacy, but not surprising at all. For enterprise, the target market for Zoom, I imagine this doesn’t matter much.
I don’t know anyone that uses Zoom for personal use. And if you do, why?
It matters more. Nobody wants trade secrets being used to train some ai.
I used zoom for some hobby online meetups. The majority used zoom. I’m assuming that it’s organizer’s choice, which they’re familiar at work. I’d love to spread a word for FOSS alternatives, but sadly I’m not the person organizes events.
The thing is for most people zoom is equivalent of video conference. Zoom has soared its publicity in WFH era, and Zoom decides to (like every corporation does) utilize it, milking every possible profit from it.
I’d wager enterprise customers wouldn’t want this either, and I won’t be surprised if they demand to explicitly remove that clause on their contracts. Imagine all the highly confidential info and trade secrets being exchanged on company zoom meetings that can be harvested for AI use.
Does anyone know if that’s ok with the DGPR in Europe?
Holly shit and people and companies even pay for this pos?
