Civilians are going to be gunned down. The media will paint the victims as violent criminals. In the burbs, Frank Freeway and Mary Minivan won’t care, what’s on Netflix?
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming
We’re finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio
Gotta get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been gone long ago
What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
I don’t want to downplay the alarm bells going off over this move. It’s definitely as bad as many are saying. On the other hand, I do want to set some right expectations. National guardsmen are modern professional soldiers and, as such, are far more disciplined than average police officers. Civilian casualties are always a possibility, and might even be what this administration wants, but I think it’s unlikely that we’ll see anything like another Kent State. If anything, I’ll bet most of the guardsmen are pretty frustrated with Trump for being called up for bullshit reasons.
Modern, as in trained for flexible mission parameters in a modern urban environment where earning/keeping the respect of the local civilian population is a critical part of the mission. A step beyond the reactionary notion that Brute force and brutal suppression are always the most effective path. A military where soldiers are trained to question orders and made individually responsible for following illegal orders.
For example, say what you will about America’s ultimate failure in Afghanistan, our soldiers on the ground became experts in local culture and factions and built cooperation to achieve mission objectives without alienating the population. If our political leadership was as professional as our soldiers I think things would have ended a lot differently.
I think the problem though is neither side is going to back down which means clashes between troops/police is going to keep escalating until someone at one of these events pushes things too far and the troops/police end up firing on people. Especially as they are most likely going to start trying to push to end the protests through arrests rather then just focusing on control which will just antagonize people more. Realistically what other end scenario is there to this if Trump keeps throwing gasoline on the fire? It’s either gonna be a brutal crackdown on the protests with “less then lethal” weapons done by the military or end up being a bloodbath. Either way both outcomes would be horrifying to see happening in America, dictators use the military to put down protests and if we let that happen without any kind of severe backlash then we’re pretty much fucked.
Pretty much everyone I’ve even met in the national gaurd are people who re-enlisted after their first stint in the army to get a regular paycheck while they go to school
"Oh, you have a [baby|upcoming deadline|scheduled holiday] in your regular life? Drop everything and harass these protesters while trying not to worry about regular life "
I have trust in the generals, but they keep getting fired by this administration. The enlisted mooks will brainlessly shoot at civilians and call themselves heroes if given the chance.
The grunts and mooks aren’t professional at all. That’s the fucking point.
Police are those who actually study the law. Soldiers at best know they haven’t studied the law. It’s always the generals and officers who step in and protect us from the dumbasses, but the brains of the military are actively being drained right now.
Soldiers don’t have legal training, riot training, or any other legal maneuver. Meanwhile, Police and Police investigators need to actually win court cases if they want their charges to stick.
Police know what they can get away with given the local judges and politicians.
This liberal fantasy where your enemies can just be ‘taught’ habeus corpus and suddenly agree with you is just fucking fantasy. Maybe the dumbass soldiers might learn that but Police absolutely already have legal training and experience in legal matters. They won’t listen to your lectures on legality.
The benefit to soldiers is that they often know they don’t know legal matters and know their ignorance on riot training. But otherwise you have to treat typical soldiers as ignorant. Police on the other hand are pretending to be dumb, they have far more legal experience than typical citizens.
That doesn’t make Police correct mind you. It just makes them more legally experienced.
The police system actively rejects people for being too smart, and ousts people that ask too many questions. I don’t know if the “legal experience” police officers receive is the kind of experience we want them to receive.
But Police are constantly surrounded by lawyers, criminologists and judges. You ain’t convincing them of anything, they have higher trusted authorities on the issue of law and a single officer likely have stood inside of courtrooms longer than you and me and everyone else in this thread combined. (Unless we have a lawyer in the peanut gallery??)
So this idea that you can just call them ignorant of law (and consequently, capable of learning or changing their opinions on these issues give. Am online debate) is… grossly optimistic.
You have to see them as legal professionals. Not necessarily legal authorities (like a judge or lawyer). But as a legal professional, cops almost certainly know more about law then the typical person. Enough to be dangerous.
The average age for active duty enlisted is 28.5yo, not 18.
Yes, active duty law enforcement is more competent at the intricacies of law enforcement, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about things like trigger discipline and doing proper reconnaissance before charging into a situation.
As far as I’m aware, the guard still doesn’t have the power of arrest anyways. They will have to coordinate such actions with local law enforcement. They have no prosecutors or jails store detainees.
Civilians are going to be gunned down. The media will paint the victims as violent criminals. In the burbs, Frank Freeway and Mary Minivan won’t care, what’s on Netflix?
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming
We’re finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio
Gotta get down to it, soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been gone long ago
What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
I don’t want to downplay the alarm bells going off over this move. It’s definitely as bad as many are saying. On the other hand, I do want to set some right expectations. National guardsmen are modern professional soldiers and, as such, are far more disciplined than average police officers. Civilian casualties are always a possibility, and might even be what this administration wants, but I think it’s unlikely that we’ll see anything like another Kent State. If anything, I’ll bet most of the guardsmen are pretty frustrated with Trump for being called up for bullshit reasons.
There’s plenty of modern professional soldiers doing the worst shit imaginable with a smile on there face.
Frustrated, modern (whatever that means in this context), professional, and yet, still willing to point a gun at peaceful civilian protestors.
The jackboot is coming down on your head, but at least it’s polished, neatly tied, and only coming down hard enough to knock you out, not kill you.
Modern, as in trained for flexible mission parameters in a modern urban environment where earning/keeping the respect of the local civilian population is a critical part of the mission. A step beyond the reactionary notion that Brute force and brutal suppression are always the most effective path. A military where soldiers are trained to question orders and made individually responsible for following illegal orders.
For example, say what you will about America’s ultimate failure in Afghanistan, our soldiers on the ground became experts in local culture and factions and built cooperation to achieve mission objectives without alienating the population. If our political leadership was as professional as our soldiers I think things would have ended a lot differently.
I think the problem though is neither side is going to back down which means clashes between troops/police is going to keep escalating until someone at one of these events pushes things too far and the troops/police end up firing on people. Especially as they are most likely going to start trying to push to end the protests through arrests rather then just focusing on control which will just antagonize people more. Realistically what other end scenario is there to this if Trump keeps throwing gasoline on the fire? It’s either gonna be a brutal crackdown on the protests with “less then lethal” weapons done by the military or end up being a bloodbath. Either way both outcomes would be horrifying to see happening in America, dictators use the military to put down protests and if we let that happen without any kind of severe backlash then we’re pretty much fucked.
I agree for the army. National guard? Nope. As redneck as it gets.
Pretty much everyone I’ve even met in the national gaurd are people who re-enlisted after their first stint in the army to get a regular paycheck while they go to school
"Oh, you have a [baby|upcoming deadline|scheduled holiday] in your regular life? Drop everything and harass these protesters while trying not to worry about regular life "
I’d be frustrated, too.
deleted by creator
No, I never heard of Kent State. If I had I might have mentioned it in my above comment. Oh, wait.
Oops haha thanks.
Lulz. The bulk of the military is 18Y old chumps.
I have trust in the generals, but they keep getting fired by this administration. The enlisted mooks will brainlessly shoot at civilians and call themselves heroes if given the chance.
The grunts and mooks aren’t professional at all. That’s the fucking point.
Police are those who actually study the law. Soldiers at best know they haven’t studied the law. It’s always the generals and officers who step in and protect us from the dumbasses, but the brains of the military are actively being drained right now.
Funniest thing I’ve read all week
You may laugh but it’s the reality.
Soldiers don’t have legal training, riot training, or any other legal maneuver. Meanwhile, Police and Police investigators need to actually win court cases if they want their charges to stick.
Police know what they can get away with given the local judges and politicians.
This liberal fantasy where your enemies can just be ‘taught’ habeus corpus and suddenly agree with you is just fucking fantasy. Maybe the dumbass soldiers might learn that but Police absolutely already have legal training and experience in legal matters. They won’t listen to your lectures on legality.
The benefit to soldiers is that they often know they don’t know legal matters and know their ignorance on riot training. But otherwise you have to treat typical soldiers as ignorant. Police on the other hand are pretending to be dumb, they have far more legal experience than typical citizens.
That doesn’t make Police correct mind you. It just makes them more legally experienced.
The police system actively rejects people for being too smart, and ousts people that ask too many questions. I don’t know if the “legal experience” police officers receive is the kind of experience we want them to receive.
I’m not saying it’s what we want them to receive.
But Police are constantly surrounded by lawyers, criminologists and judges. You ain’t convincing them of anything, they have higher trusted authorities on the issue of law and a single officer likely have stood inside of courtrooms longer than you and me and everyone else in this thread combined. (Unless we have a lawyer in the peanut gallery??)
So this idea that you can just call them ignorant of law (and consequently, capable of learning or changing their opinions on these issues give. Am online debate) is… grossly optimistic.
You have to see them as legal professionals. Not necessarily legal authorities (like a judge or lawyer). But as a legal professional, cops almost certainly know more about law then the typical person. Enough to be dangerous.
Trained enough to be stubborn.
The average age for active duty enlisted is 28.5yo, not 18.
Yes, active duty law enforcement is more competent at the intricacies of law enforcement, but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about things like trigger discipline and doing proper reconnaissance before charging into a situation.
As far as I’m aware, the guard still doesn’t have the power of arrest anyways. They will have to coordinate such actions with local law enforcement. They have no prosecutors or jails store detainees.