It would be nice if there was a way to rip out any questionable software/electric components from modern cars and replace it with something open source.
Of course, public transport has a limit and we can root for both as well, including protected bike lanes even in the boonies like we successfully see in the Netherlands
i am lucky, my city has excellent public transport, that doesn’t stop people from using cars though. be it because of pure habit, or because public transport is not solution for everything.
so i’d rather if our european car industry wasn’t decimated by the chinese one.
I don’t know that they’re out to make money though. A lot of the Chinese manufacturers are now struggling due to the price war they instigated themselves. Huge production surplus but they pushed down the price so much they hardly make any money
Brand recognition is important, but it’s a dangerous game operating mostly on government subsidies. Once you have established low prices it’s hard to reverse it
i am afraid it is just that most CEOs are sane enough to keep their embarrassing moments for their private life. do you think musk is the only narcissistic psychopath on drugs in the business world?
this is not advocating for musk, but it is important to be grounded in reality ;)
I have no doubt most CEOs are psychopaths, but they also don’t own a global Nazi mouthpiece like twitter, or have more money and resources than several small nations.
Feet firmly planted in reality, thanks. You definitely sound like your advocating for musk.
To be fair, I think most of USA is on recreational drugs, legal, illegal, or “prescription”. That shouldn’t matter as much compared to his other actions.
what he does in his free time is one thing (i don’t care about that), being high when he is working for a government ruining people’s lives and jobs is another.
If you don’t see musk as one of the singular greatest threats to this planet, I dunno what to tell you. It is certainly not just the salute, that was just the most public he’s been about his true self. If I recall those Nazis had some thoughts on the Holocaust as well.
How many of those got up on stage with the seal of the president of the United States and did one of the most identifiable actions of the last true fascist regime? musk was able to spend $250 million to pretend to be president for a few months to kneecap the US government and kill all the investigations into his illegal dealings as well as reward his companies with lucrative government contracts. I’d love to see any of those tinpot dictators and “communist” leaders do that.
Putin is the head of the paper tiger Russia. If they didn’t have nukes the US probably would have steam rolled them back in 2014 when they took Crimea. If the world actually gave Ukraine the weapons and resources to do it, I have no doubt they could be at Moscow’s door in a couple months.
Kim Jung Un is the head of a pariah state who relies on worldwide aide so that his people don’t starve more than they already are starving.
Sure Xi is the head of the state in which there is obviously genocide happening, but he’s not running a car company, which is what this whole article is about.
Riiight. Listen, this isn’t going anywhere. You think a salute is worse than a genocide, musk is a greater threat than dictators with nukes, and there’s no way I’m going to change your mind. I’m going to peace out
In a couple months a drug fueled musk did to the US what Xi and Putin have been trying to do for decades. It most certainly wasn’t just his salute that made me think that.
You could change my mind if you brought any information to the table that shows how those two are worse than musk.
Competition is good for the consumer. More options from more players will encourage more charging infrastructure and (ostensibly) more innovation. It’s not just Elon Musk vs China. Every automaker that wants to sell cars in the USA is on notice. If they want to compete in the EV subcategory, they need to focus on price and performance. People want budget-conscious EVs.
Not super into cars but is there even any reason other than environmental friendliness to get an EV? Where I’m from, EVs are all wildly expensive compared to their combustion peers and they all frankly look really ugly to me. The coil whine of the EVs also drive me crazy.
Others have addressed your other questions, but I want to add that the “coil whine” that irritates you is probably the car’s slow-moving warning system. EVs are effectively silent at slow speeds because there is no engine noise or road noise, so they are required to make an annoying sound when maneuvering to get your attention. While it is an important safety feature, I agree some are very obnoxious.
I’m not sure if we’re talking about the same sound as it’s so high pitched that most people older than me are unable to even hear it while people my age or younger can clearly identify it. If that’s supposed to be a warning system, it doesn’t seem very good?
I mean, it’s also entirely possible you’ve heard a failing magnetic drive, a humming battery, or a squeeky mechanical thing like brakes or bearings. Those are all strong indicators of a significant problem with the car, and should be fixed immediately. But if you hear it every time, as soon as the car starts moving in a parking lot, that’s the safety feature.
Even the cheap ones accelerate faster, ride smoother, and are quieter. You don’t have to get oil changes, and the brakes don’t wear down as fast. Plus I can recharge at home, which is loads cheaper than buying gasoline.
And this is all with a relatively ancient Nissan Leaf, the new vehicles are all far better.
Oh, and let’s not forget that even very small air quality improvements have noticeable improvements in lung health! Humans were not meant to be breathing gasoline fumes or combustion exhaust.
My government just added a controversial extra tax on EVs because they tear up the roads and cause additional particles, because they are really heavy and most of them have a better than usual torque.
You can really see how road quality went to shit after EVs became mainstream.
Making batteries is also a really ugly business and far from environmental.
That is not even remotely why they added a tax on EVs. The reason they added the extra tax is because they make a ton of money by taxing gas and as EVs are gaining popularity they’re starting to see their tax revenues plummet. There is a nugget of truth in that some of those tax revenues are used to pay for maintaining the roads and that EVs do still put wear and tear on the roads, but it’s not that they’re destroying roads any more than any other car does.
If you’re seeing a drop in road quality it’s because your government isn’t paying to have the roads maintained like they have in the past, not because there are more EVs driving around.
With my cheap over night tarrif (UK) I pay approximately 2p a mile, I’m planning a road trip to Europe soon and have calculated with a pay for discount EV charge card, I’ll average about 14p/mile. I’m saving between £60-£80 a month compared to my old diesel car, which pays off the charger install ~£900 in a year. Diesel price have dropped in the UK since I got mine.
For servicing it’s coolant every 3 years or so, and that pretty much it. We have a MOT in the UK, for every vehicle over 3 years old, then yearly, that covers more than what is needed on the yearly services for my car. Only thing it doesn’t cover is lubricate the charge port, but I think I’m ok with that
Also the cabin noise is almost silent, no gears, constant predictable acceleration, and I can plug anything I want in to the 240v outlet in the back seat
I mean I’m personally a public transport kinda person. I live somewhere where a car is really just a status symbol since even the cheapest car costs at least roughly 90k USD and most people take public transport.
They make decent “point A to point B” cars, but that’s about it. They take a long time to charge, and when that battery is due for replacement, it might just total the car.
They manufacture everything, they are just people chilling in their country. Say what you will about their form of government but BYD havent invested in hurting people for no reason.
unless you for some reason like leftist dictator who would like to rule the world more than the right one, there isn’t really practical difference in this
China would love so much to rule the world, that’s why it hasn’t entered any war in the past 40+ years, and that’s why all countries in the global south are happy to enter the comparably advantageous economic deals and infrastructure investments that China offers in comparison with the magnificent western democracies.
How many countries has China bombed in the past 40 years? Let’s now make a list for the USA, see who wins!
As for “dictator”, look at the approval rates of Xi in China and compare them to those of Kid Starver in the UK, Trump in the US, or Macron in France. I guess democracy is best represented by the system that lets you choose which hateful ghoul will apply social austerity policy and invest 5% of GDP in NATO.
I agree until the last part. Democracies have more freedoms allowing for more accurate polling. There is also less fear of consequences for being open. Countries should be able to defend themselves, 5% is a step toward peace. The cold war never became hot because of the investment in defence.
Tell that to the millions of people the west murdered through bombing of Korea, Vietnam or Laos, the millions more murdered though US support of military dictators such as Suharto or Pinochet, or the millions who died through the de-stabilization of their countries such as Mosaddeq’s Iran, Guatemala or the outright invasion of Iraq. Ask those people what they think of the west’s military expenses over the past century.
Democracies have more freedoms allowing for more accurate polling. There is also less fear of consequences for being open
Literally two days ago Mamdani won the mayoral elections against all polls, polls in the west are heavily manipulated. And literally last week a man was denied entry in the country due to having a picture of bald Vance. I happen to be Spanish, and in our super-democratic state we have literal political prisoners who had to free the country such as Carles Puigdemont due to political persecution and risking their lives in jail. The west is NOT more democratic than China at this point, and the trend is towards openness in China and towards fascism in the west.
Telsas total european market share this month is 1.2%, down from 1.8% last may. The chinese market share is 5.9%, not 5.6%.
5.9% vs 1.2% is a 5x sales rate for chinese cars versus Teslas. According to the article, china doubled its EU market share in the last year, while Tesla lost 30% of its market share in the same time period.
The title is not sensational. If anything, your comment is a bit misleading by not listing the tesla EU market share.
You are comparing Tesla, a full electric car maker to « Chinese cars » which includes multiple brands and all engine types.
Only one-third of the cars that the Chinese carmakers sold in Europe during the first quarter were electric.
i hate musk, but i am not wild about our dependence on china either, so i am not really sure who to root for in this fight…
It would be nice if there was a way to rip out any questionable software/electric components from modern cars and replace it with something open source.
Buy european? I mean if that’s an option.
There are lots of EVs by European car manufacturers. The problem is that they have trouble competing on price with the Chinese ones.
Root for better public transport and active cities instead of car dependency :)
Living in the boonies, I’m never going to get a bus going by every ten minutes so a solid market for good EVs is still what I root for.
Of course, public transport has a limit and we can root for both as well, including protected bike lanes even in the boonies like we successfully see in the Netherlands
The public transport bus I take to and from work is a Chinese made electric. It’s a Yutong E15.
I remember that one getting tested in my hometown.
How common are these in Denmark? 😮 don’t feel like I’ve seen one, but then again it’s not like I study the make before I get in the bus
i am lucky, my city has excellent public transport, that doesn’t stop people from using cars though. be it because of pure habit, or because public transport is not solution for everything.
so i’d rather if our european car industry wasn’t decimated by the chinese one.
I don’t want to be like China though /s
I would say go with whatever company that doesn’t have a CEO throwing Nazi salutes.
Yeah, the Chinese manufacturers are out to make money, and at least we know what to expect from them.
Besides, being profitable usually means making a better product than your competitors.
I don’t know that they’re out to make money though. A lot of the Chinese manufacturers are now struggling due to the price war they instigated themselves. Huge production surplus but they pushed down the price so much they hardly make any money
I think a lot of it is also growing their market share and establishing their brand.
Brand recognition is important, but it’s a dangerous game operating mostly on government subsidies. Once you have established low prices it’s hard to reverse it
GASP!
You mean… Proper capitalism!?
Okay there’s a ton of spyware in the car, but - just . . don’t . . . connect it. Or whatever.
I suspect you know this, and your post is sarcastic. But just in case:
Most cars have their own embedded SIMs nowadays. They’re already connected. You can’t disconnect them.
Which of them are you talking about?
Yes
Right.
i am afraid it is just that most CEOs are sane enough to keep their embarrassing moments for their private life. do you think musk is the only narcissistic psychopath on drugs in the business world?
this is not advocating for musk, but it is important to be grounded in reality ;)
I have no doubt most CEOs are psychopaths, but they also don’t own a global Nazi mouthpiece like twitter, or have more money and resources than several small nations.
Feet firmly planted in reality, thanks. You definitely sound like your advocating for musk.
So did you mean “CEOs not throwing a Nazi salute” or “CEOs whose Nazi salutes don’t show up on your twitter feed”?
It seems you forgot what your argument is in a span of two rebuttals
You should work on your reading comprehension then
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To be fair, I think most of USA is on recreational drugs, legal, illegal, or “prescription”. That shouldn’t matter as much compared to his other actions.
what he does in his free time is one thing (i don’t care about that), being high when he is
working for a governmentruining people’s lives and jobs is another.So support the country committing a genocide against the uyghurs? Because you think a salute is worse than a Holocaust, got it.
If you don’t see musk as one of the singular greatest threats to this planet, I dunno what to tell you. It is certainly not just the salute, that was just the most public he’s been about his true self. If I recall those Nazis had some thoughts on the Holocaust as well.
I really don’t. Putin, Kim Jong Un, Xi Jinping, all are actual threats. Musk doesn’t even register.
How many of those got up on stage with the seal of the president of the United States and did one of the most identifiable actions of the last true fascist regime? musk was able to spend $250 million to pretend to be president for a few months to kneecap the US government and kill all the investigations into his illegal dealings as well as reward his companies with lucrative government contracts. I’d love to see any of those tinpot dictators and “communist” leaders do that.
Putin is the head of the paper tiger Russia. If they didn’t have nukes the US probably would have steam rolled them back in 2014 when they took Crimea. If the world actually gave Ukraine the weapons and resources to do it, I have no doubt they could be at Moscow’s door in a couple months.
Kim Jung Un is the head of a pariah state who relies on worldwide aide so that his people don’t starve more than they already are starving.
Sure Xi is the head of the state in which there is obviously genocide happening, but he’s not running a car company, which is what this whole article is about.
Riiight. Listen, this isn’t going anywhere. You think a salute is worse than a genocide, musk is a greater threat than dictators with nukes, and there’s no way I’m going to change your mind. I’m going to peace out
In a couple months a drug fueled musk did to the US what Xi and Putin have been trying to do for decades. It most certainly wasn’t just his salute that made me think that.
You could change my mind if you brought any information to the table that shows how those two are worse than musk.
Enjoy your day.
Since you proudly champion the rights of Uyghur people, you are aware that the reeducation camps are closed since about 2022, right?
Hahaha.
As opposed to supporting a country that… (fill in the blanks, there is an infinite supply)
With that level of indirection gymnastics, you can accuse anyone of anything.
(This comment written in the language of a brutally colonizing and genocidal empire.)
Canada?
They speak English too
Competition is good for the consumer. More options from more players will encourage more charging infrastructure and (ostensibly) more innovation. It’s not just Elon Musk vs China. Every automaker that wants to sell cars in the USA is on notice. If they want to compete in the EV subcategory, they need to focus on price and performance. People want budget-conscious EVs.
Not super into cars but is there even any reason other than environmental friendliness to get an EV? Where I’m from, EVs are all wildly expensive compared to their combustion peers and they all frankly look really ugly to me. The coil whine of the EVs also drive me crazy.
Others have addressed your other questions, but I want to add that the “coil whine” that irritates you is probably the car’s slow-moving warning system. EVs are effectively silent at slow speeds because there is no engine noise or road noise, so they are required to make an annoying sound when maneuvering to get your attention. While it is an important safety feature, I agree some are very obnoxious.
I’m not sure if we’re talking about the same sound as it’s so high pitched that most people older than me are unable to even hear it while people my age or younger can clearly identify it. If that’s supposed to be a warning system, it doesn’t seem very good?
I mean, it’s also entirely possible you’ve heard a failing magnetic drive, a humming battery, or a squeeky mechanical thing like brakes or bearings. Those are all strong indicators of a significant problem with the car, and should be fixed immediately. But if you hear it every time, as soon as the car starts moving in a parking lot, that’s the safety feature.
Even the cheap ones accelerate faster, ride smoother, and are quieter. You don’t have to get oil changes, and the brakes don’t wear down as fast. Plus I can recharge at home, which is loads cheaper than buying gasoline.
And this is all with a relatively ancient Nissan Leaf, the new vehicles are all far better.
Oh, and let’s not forget that even very small air quality improvements have noticeable improvements in lung health! Humans were not meant to be breathing gasoline fumes or combustion exhaust.
My government just added a controversial extra tax on EVs because they tear up the roads and cause additional particles, because they are really heavy and most of them have a better than usual torque.
You can really see how road quality went to shit after EVs became mainstream.
Making batteries is also a really ugly business and far from environmental.
I can’t find anything on such a tax?
I feel like there has been an uptick in pro oil bots in the past week. Oil is a pretty ugly business too? What is wrong with you people.
That is not even remotely why they added a tax on EVs. The reason they added the extra tax is because they make a ton of money by taxing gas and as EVs are gaining popularity they’re starting to see their tax revenues plummet. There is a nugget of truth in that some of those tax revenues are used to pay for maintaining the roads and that EVs do still put wear and tear on the roads, but it’s not that they’re destroying roads any more than any other car does.
If you’re seeing a drop in road quality it’s because your government isn’t paying to have the roads maintained like they have in the past, not because there are more EVs driving around.
I live in an area where half the vehicles on the road are pickup trucks and giant SUV’S. A KIA EV2 isn’t doing any added harm to the roads here.
With my cheap over night tarrif (UK) I pay approximately 2p a mile, I’m planning a road trip to Europe soon and have calculated with a pay for discount EV charge card, I’ll average about 14p/mile. I’m saving between £60-£80 a month compared to my old diesel car, which pays off the charger install ~£900 in a year. Diesel price have dropped in the UK since I got mine.
For servicing it’s coolant every 3 years or so, and that pretty much it. We have a MOT in the UK, for every vehicle over 3 years old, then yearly, that covers more than what is needed on the yearly services for my car. Only thing it doesn’t cover is lubricate the charge port, but I think I’m ok with that
Also the cabin noise is almost silent, no gears, constant predictable acceleration, and I can plug anything I want in to the 240v outlet in the back seat
We are in the middle of a crisis. You don’t need an other reason.
You can either look ugly in an EV or drive straight towards dystopia in a cool looking ICE vehicle.
I mean I’m personally a public transport kinda person. I live somewhere where a car is really just a status symbol since even the cheapest car costs at least roughly 90k USD and most people take public transport.
They make decent “point A to point B” cars, but that’s about it. They take a long time to charge, and when that battery is due for replacement, it might just total the car.
which is, coincidentally, what most people need from a car ;)
It’s been shown again and again that evs require less maintenance.
Everywhere is depndent on China, buy the car that isnt overtly a fascist car. They also suck.
that isn’t really an argument in favor of china 😂
They manufacture everything, they are just people chilling in their country. Say what you will about their form of government but BYD havent invested in hurting people for no reason.
China famously doesn’t have a far-right problem, unlike the EU or the USA, what are you talking about?
unless you for some reason like leftist dictator who would like to rule the world more than the right one, there isn’t really practical difference in this
China would love so much to rule the world, that’s why it hasn’t entered any war in the past 40+ years, and that’s why all countries in the global south are happy to enter the comparably advantageous economic deals and infrastructure investments that China offers in comparison with the magnificent western democracies.
How many countries has China bombed in the past 40 years? Let’s now make a list for the USA, see who wins!
As for “dictator”, look at the approval rates of Xi in China and compare them to those of Kid Starver in the UK, Trump in the US, or Macron in France. I guess democracy is best represented by the system that lets you choose which hateful ghoul will apply social austerity policy and invest 5% of GDP in NATO.
I agree until the last part. Democracies have more freedoms allowing for more accurate polling. There is also less fear of consequences for being open. Countries should be able to defend themselves, 5% is a step toward peace. The cold war never became hot because of the investment in defence.
Tell that to the millions of people the west murdered through bombing of Korea, Vietnam or Laos, the millions more murdered though US support of military dictators such as Suharto or Pinochet, or the millions who died through the de-stabilization of their countries such as Mosaddeq’s Iran, Guatemala or the outright invasion of Iraq. Ask those people what they think of the west’s military expenses over the past century.
Literally two days ago Mamdani won the mayoral elections against all polls, polls in the west are heavily manipulated. And literally last week a man was denied entry in the country due to having a picture of bald Vance. I happen to be Spanish, and in our super-democratic state we have literal political prisoners who had to free the country such as Carles Puigdemont due to political persecution and risking their lives in jail. The west is NOT more democratic than China at this point, and the trend is towards openness in China and towards fascism in the west.
The article title is a bit sensational. The share of the market for all Chinese EV is 5,6%. It’s not ( yet ? ) a tsunami.
Telsas total european market share this month is 1.2%, down from 1.8% last may. The chinese market share is 5.9%, not 5.6%.
5.9% vs 1.2% is a 5x sales rate for chinese cars versus Teslas. According to the article, china doubled its EU market share in the last year, while Tesla lost 30% of its market share in the same time period.
The title is not sensational. If anything, your comment is a bit misleading by not listing the tesla EU market share.
You are comparing Tesla, a full electric car maker to « Chinese cars » which includes multiple brands and all engine types. Only one-third of the cars that the Chinese carmakers sold in Europe during the first quarter were electric.