Now that Israel just openly declares it is bombing and invading hospitals, the fog of war bullshit really doesn’t matter anymore.
Maybe this one hospital strike was a rocket. What about all the other ones?
Yeah, so maybe you’re right, maybe I did steal money from your purse, push grandma down the stairs when she got in my way, left the milk out over night, shit in Dad’s shoes while high on meth, smoked crack in the alley, slapped all my cousins alphabetically, poured cocaine on the dog, but I swear, I didn’t smoke crack in my bedroom and I don’t like being accused of things I didn’t do!
My understanding is this lie was used by Hamas to isolate Israel from Arab nations where much of the public was frankly horrified by the brutal violence Hamas had aimed specifically at civilians. So no, it wasn’t just “the one relatively inconsequential thing,” it is a lie that has had serious consequences.
It’s also a large part of why people believe everything Hamas says (e.g. death tolls) while also refusing to believe anything Israel says.
The reason people believe Gazan death tolls is that they’re found to be reliable by almost every organization working in the region. And the reason most people refuse to believe what Israel says without confirmation is because they’ve been caught lying on multiple occasions, many times going as far as fabricating evidence (remember the Al-Shifa calendar)?
They’re “found reliable”, but not actually checked. Like, nobody actually checks Hamas’ numbers; they just “confirm” them.
Confirming numbers comes from actually checking them.
Pedanticism isn’t a good look.
They don’t, though. Check. They can’t. No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it’s under Hamas control. They know that Hamas can rescind whatever meager access they have, and so they figure that humanitarian purpose is better satisfied by preserving access by not angering Hamas.
But they don’t have access to strike sites, they don’t have access to morgues. Islam requires the dead be buried by nightfall, so there’s simply no opportunity for independent observers to actually verify body counts. They’re just demographically “verified” - “oh, we know about that many people lived in the apartment block, so X is a plausible figure for deaths.” But that’s not confirmation.
This is the entire reason for the 10/7 attack. Israel is normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia and this was a planned and timed move by Hamas to try to stop that.
It did not work.
Considering the fact that Israel is now bombing and invading every hospital, what difference does it make?
If this was a lie then it was only a lie by a few weeks. Israel has fulfilled every accusation that Hamas has made.
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The truth matters for the historical record, but it wasn’t a lie like the other poster said; it was at worst a false conclusion. Instead of treating this like a reasonable mistake, though, they’re cooking up conspiracy theories to assign malicious intent to what is pretty clearly just a result of the fog of war.
If it was a mistake. I’m reserving judgement until there’s an actual forensic investigation and a truth-and-reconcilliation commission for Israel’s crimes.
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People do not need excuses to accuse something of being fake news. Also, there really weren’t a lot of reporters that actually reported this as an Israeli airstrike - they mostly just reported about the claims that were being made of an Israeli airstrike, but tried to stay neutral.
Though yes, some jumped to conclusions. Reasonable conclusions in my opinion, but that’s bad reporting.
But if truth matters, then we shouldn’t react to bad reporting with wild and speculative claims about people lying to make Israel look bad.
What other ones, specifically?
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All the other ones were literally illegally used by Hamas as bases of combat operations and storage of their weapons.
According to Israel, the one doing the war crimes. 🙄
Regardless of whether you think it’s justifiable or not to bomb buildings with both militants and civilians, it’s not a war crime.
But beyond that, you’re claiming Palestine isn’t doing war crimes‽
Israel claims these buildings are being used by both militants and civilians.
Ignoring any conclusions you have made from Palestinian reporters, what war crimes have Israel committed?
Bombing UN sponsored shelters for refugees
Only 20 deaths while bombing a location sheltering 20000.
Bombing UN sponsored shelters for refugees
These words you added ultimately mean nothing if they aren’t used for that purpose.
Bruh the UNHRC literally condemned Israel for committing warcrimes.
So, ignoring the only people on the ground telling us what is happening?
Okay, so Israel has openly admitted to the crime of collective punishment through the blockade and indiscriminate bombing by claiming that anyone who voted for Hamas is a legitimate military target. Bombing hospitals, something else they now admit to, is a crime even if they are mixed military/civilian targets; a claim that Israel has still not proven, by the way. They’ve also made their motives very clear about forcing the population of Gaza into Egypt, though they claim this is merciful and humanitarian it is still ethnic cleansing and fits the crime of genocide.
These are war crimes that Israel is telling the world it is committing that do not require us to rely on reporting from Palestinian journalists.
Okay, so Israel has openly admitted to the crime of collective punishment through the blockade
Lol it’s so funny to me that you people will jump through hoops to try to make this a thing.
How mad are you going to be when these “war crimes” are totally forgotten about once you cease to be useful as a propaganda vector?
Israel has openly admitted to the crime of collective punishment through the blockade
Have they? A blockade makes sense in the context of a war.
indiscriminate bombing by claiming that anyone who voted for Hamas is a legitimate military target.
These are likely two unrelated points. i.e. civilians are being killed in bombings, and some Israeli official has shared their idiotic opinion.
Bombing hospitals, something else they now admit to, is a crime even if they are mixed military/civilian targets; a claim that Israel has still not proven, by the way.
No it’s not? And yes, it hasn’t been proven to the point of “Hamas militants have been fighting back in hospital corridors”, the evidence has been there. Militants fighting right outside the hospital, militants taking hostages through the hospital, tunnels under the hospital etc.
They’ve also made their motives very clear about forcing the population of Gaza into Egypt
Makes sense, get the civilians out of the way so they can sweep the strip without killing them. How is that genocidal lol
Have they? A blockade makes sense in the context of a war.
A blockade is a war on the entire population, yet Israel insists it is not at war with Gaza and is only at war with Hamas. That means they’re telling on themselves; they do not see a distinction between Gaza’s Palestinians and Hamas. They’ve also failed to prove that every element of their blockade has a clear military purpose, which is essential for avoiding war crimes.
These are likely two unrelated points. i.e. civilians are being killed in bombings, and some Israeli official has shared their idiotic opinion.
Not “some official” but multiple Israeli officials and low-level government agencies and think tanks. The highest escutcheons of power aren’t admitting any kind of connection, but I say there’s enough that’s come directly from Israel that we can suspect motive and should open a war crimes investigation at the very least.
No it’s not? And yes, it hasn’t been proven
Under international law, hospitals are presumed civilian unless proven otherwise. Israel didn’t prove anything before it attacked. Therefore: war crime.
Also? In the case of a mixed civilian/military target, every effort must be made to preserve civilian life or it’s still a war crime. Instead they snipe nurses.
Makes sense, get the civilians out of the way so they can sweep the strip without killing them. How is that genocidal lol
Well I suppose it’s only genocidal if they aren’t allowed to come back and I suppose I can’t prove that Israel is planning to annex Gaza into Israel (even though it’s been stated multiple times from different sources within Israel’s government and institutions). I’ll retract, with the caveat that it’s ridiculous if you think they’d ever be allowed to go home.
A blockade is a war on the entire population … do not see a distinction between Gaza’s Palestinians and Hamas
How do you distinguish a Hamas militant from a civilian?
essential for avoiding war crimes.
[citation needed]
say there’s enough that’s come directly from Israel that we can suspect motive and should open a war crimes investigation at the very least.
Fair enough. It’s not going to change anything in the short term, but that’s fair.
Israel didn’t prove anything before it attacked.
Didn’t prove anything to you. The general public doesn’t need to be privy to that information lol.
every effort must be made to preserve civilian life or it’s still a war crime.
Sounds like they did to me. I saw multiple emotionally manipulative posts about premature babies in the hospital when they were running out of power. Nothing about those premature babies being dead. Only about them being evacuated.
If the most fragile lives came out intact, that says enough really.
Instead they snipe nurses.
Really reaching for points there lol.
I do find it interesting the level of evidence you require from Israel vs the level of evidence required from Palestine. (No I’m not equating Palestine to Hamas. I’m referring to their collective media sources)
So glad the world’s #1 childkillers didn’t kill these particular kids. Props to the IDF and the Israeli government for not killing these specific people for no reason.
Who the hell cares, Israel has killed a whole lot more innocent people, including thousands of fucking children. The Israeli government is a bunch of genociders.
Don’t you bother to ask what happened to 1000 misfired rockets from Gaza?
(1200 something confirmed misfires from IDF, and almost 800 something from a twitch streaming bots that were scraping al Jazeera cams etc, some independent new reports on these too). Let’s just say 200 rockets, don’t you wonder where they landed and what happened?
And the amount of rockets fired by anyone in Gaza is nothing compared to the sheer destruction Israel does.
Because the truth and facts matter when discussing moral responsibility. It doesn’t absolve Israel of other acts of war harming civilians. But this matters when discussing Hamas’s responsibility over the death of Gaza civilians.
You will all nitpick minor details and put those who are oppressed (the Palestinians) over hot fiery coals for being potentially wrong whilst never laying a single ounce of doubt or blame on Israel, the ones conducting a god damn ethnic cleansing. I’m sorry I don’t really care about arguing over this one specific instance of horror, (that which I never personally said was Israels fault by the way) when there are many thousands upon thousands of other instances that Israel boasts about murdering innocent people.
Nitpick all you want, but all of you are just pathetic if this is the tiny sad ant hill you die on while real people die.
People seemed to care a lot when they thought it was Israel’s fault.
It was justified to think it was Israel, because they bombed that exact hospital before, and many others. And it’s still a terrible thing because people died. But let’s remember that this single event is a small compared to the rest of the genocide Israel is doing to Palestinians.
It was justified to think it was Israel, because they bombed that exact hospital before, and many others.
Source?
3 days before: https://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/news/news-and-statements/gaza-hospitals-are-facing-catastrophe-says-archbishop-canterbury
By October 12th, they had hit multiple ambulances and health facilities: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/war-crime-gaza-medics-say-israel-targeting-ambulances-health-facilities
The Archbishop has called for Israel’s evacuation order on Gaza’s hospitals to be reversed. His call comes as an Anglican-run hospital in Gaza was struck by Israeli rocket fire last night.
That Anglican-run hospital is the one from the OP btw.
Yeah, what’s your point?
It wasn’t struck by Israelis.
0.5% is a terrible genocide.
1 in 200 people. Yeah it definitely is.
Well, according to al jazeera they dropped 6000 bombs - 4000 tonnes - from Oct 7 - Oct 12.
As of 2nd Nov the number was 25000 tonnes. Let’s say that’s 25000 bombs.
Pretty terrible death rate for that number considering the options available.
This motherfucker wants more innocent people killed, wow. Genocider.
I’m sorry, do we have to wait for them to finish? We know their intentions, Israeli officials say it plainly, that they want to remove them all, make it uninhabitable where they live. That is the act of genocide, you piece of garbage.
We know their intentions, Israeli officials say it plainly
I thought they only lied though. I guess you can always pick and choose which parts you believe.
They do lie, they lie all the time. Yet when they talk about their bloodthirst for genocide, dumb motherfuckers like you say, “oh haha that’s so funny they’re just kidding!” Y’all stupid shits of course only believe lies. Talk about picking and fuckin choosing, my god you hypocrite.
HRW may very well be right here, but if the only investigation the police does after a homicide is talk to some witnesses… but you know, never actually check for fingerprints, or in this case… analyze fragments from the rocket, then I’m not going to go all in and say that they’ve done much of a report. How convenient that people act like this is all the proof they need without even reading what they actually examined.
Why would the Jews do this?
They didn’t you dickhead.
Yes, that’s the joke
Not funny.
Yeah, I don’t believe it. How would they know what happened? Were they out there with Hamas firing rockets?
That would make them… well, you know. Communists
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Neither side is ‘good’ or remotely acts like it in this conflict/war. The only good guys around are the medics & doctors trying to keep people from dying, volunteers trying to keep people from dying of lack of food/water/warmth; and of course all the innocent civilians who are caught up in this clusterfuck.
The only good guys around are the medics & doctors trying to keep people from dying
Naw, these people are bad too, it turns out. These people are willing to lie to everyone to preserve their access to Gaza and the flow of UN aid.
Got any verifiable proof of that?
Yup, some new interrogation tapes are out and also pictures of medical IDs found on terrorists. You should be able to find them with a few clicks.
whose tapes? why can you not just post direct links?
I’m kinda lazy as hell… and I don’t wanna compile all the links.
https://twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1729111792129826953?t=6ILguZJofx9Bt_vghfIS_Q&s=19
Found one while browsing on the toilet
Well yeah, wouldn’t a fake medic ID be highly convenient for a terrorist? (To your comment above).
Statements from one or a couple of people proves nothing, sadly the world we live in is full of lies, deception & coercion.
Xitter has never been, and never will be, considered verifiable proof.
Care to try again, or just call it a day?
And that’s bad because? Even assuming that’s true, the fact that they need to lie to get aid into Gaza is the problem.
I think it’s bad when people who claim neutrality in a conflict are actually aiding one side of the conflict, and lying about it. Israel would be justified, in this situation, in treating them as spies.
Spies against a brutal genocidal occupier are good guys in my book.
Spies on the side of the guys who rape 13-year-old girls with knives aren’t the “good guys” in any fucking universe.
Setting aside the veracity of that accusation, medical personnel can only be interpreted as on the side of civilians. It just happens that the interests of civilians (not dying) happen to go against the interests of Israel (killing civilians and taking their lands).
The only good guys around are the medics & doctors trying to keep people from dying
Then why aren’t they demanding Hamas GTFO of their hospitals and schools? You’re so close.
Yeah, I wonder why they don’t demand that the GUYS WITH THE WEAPONS get the fuck out or else.
And I’m not saying whether the population agrees or not with Hamas, I’m just saying that “GTFO” is not an option.
dumbest thing i’ve read today
