What is it for?

  • adam_y@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    38
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    10 months ago

    I don’t have one at all. Spent ages thinking that it was just a figure of speech, but when I found out I became fascinated by it.

    The current theory is that at some early point in our evolution we literally had a voice in our head, not unlike how some forms of schizophrenia present.

    It’s called the bicameral mind.

    https://gizmodo.com/did-everyone-3-000-years-ago-have-a-voice-in-their-head-510063135

    In my day to day life it makes little difference however, despite being an avid reader and writer I struggle tremendously to read aloud.

    I don’t know for sure but I suspect it is connected.

    • naharin@feddit.nu
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      22
      ·
      edit-2
      10 months ago

      In the article they bring up many questionable aspects of this idea, which also seems to lack in scientific support.

      And so the bicameral mind remains a highly controversial idea

    • Björn Tantau@swg-empire.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      10 months ago

      In my day to day life it makes little difference however, despite being an avid reader and writer I struggle tremendously to read aloud.

      Thanks, I actually wanted to post that as a question. I would have thought that reading silently would be harder.

      • adam_y@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        10 months ago

        I worked as a typesetter for years. I have a rather speedy reading pace (it isn’t inate, rather through practice)… but I do wonder if not having to ‘hear’ words changes the rhythm of reading.

        I’m also fascinated if other folk perform accents in their head whilst reading? Do different characters sound different or is there one ‘voice’ that acts as a narrator?

        • Björn Tantau@swg-empire.de
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          12
          ·
          10 months ago

          For me different characters have different voices. The narrative is either the voice of the character whose perspective is currently shown (which can lead to conflicts if I don’t know the perspective at the start) or it is how I imagine the author to sound like or my own voice.

          • adam_y@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            10 months ago

            I won’t pretend in not a little jealous of that. I can only imagine the texture that adds to a novel. Plus, it’s like a form of creative collaboration… You are present in the text… How cool is that?

        • RiverGhost@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          10 months ago

          I do read extremely fast in my native language (Spanish). Feels like entire sentences go straight into concepts and my brain builds a whole world based on what I’m reading.

          However I started reading in a verbalized way with my second and third languages (English and Swedish) because I was completely useless at pronunciation, while reading at a high level. So I had to learn the sounds and they started invading my reading, which I sort of resent.

          But the verbalization is still very mild; faint, monotone, non-enunciated.

          Some people talked about poetry and I hadn’t considered that my absolute lack of poetry-sense could be related. People have told me about the metrics and whatnot and it really doesn’t click. I have to sort of analyze a poem and explain it to myself in prose, and I imagine that defeats the purpose of poetry?

          • adam_y@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            10 months ago

            And there’s something else I’m interested in. When you think, do you think in a mixture of those languages? Or do you actively translate? Is it a conscious thing?

            • Hjalmar@feddit.nu
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              10 months ago

              I natively speak Swedish but I’ve studied and used English for 4-5 years so I speak English fluently and would consider myself bilingual. I can think in either English or Swedish and I can mix sentences in Swedish and English freely. But I never think in a language that’s really a combination of those languages (what we would call svengelska in Swedish).

              I’m also studying french and German but I’m not fluent in any of those languages. When using those languages (or at least German) I think in a language that’s truly a combination of that language and Swedish/English. I use words from all languages and construct sentences as I would in Swedish (reverse word order for questions, no weird German thing with adjectives at the end etc). This of course becomes a pain as soon as I have to express a thought to someone else.

        • tburkhol@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          10 months ago

          I do wonder if not having to ‘hear’ words changes the rhythm of reading.

          Hadn’t thought of this…what’s your take on poetry, especially meter-forward? Like, Robert W Service or Robert Frost, I feel would be less interesting if they didn’t have their beat.

          I don’t do voices or accents when I read. Everything is in the same ‘voice,’ which isn’t quite the same as my spoken voice. My internal voice enunciates much better and slightly lower pitch. It’s more like the voice I wish I had than the voice I do have. :)

          • adam_y@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            10 months ago

            Interesting you brought up Service… Grew up reading him as he’s from my home town.

            I do like poetry, but I’m much more inclined to concrete work, or something closer to what William Burroughs was after.

            The shape rather than the rhythm.

            Never thought of it that way. Though I still adore Service for the narrative.

            I like that your internal monologue is an idealised voice.

        • NaN@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          10 months ago

          I am pretty sure it does. From what I’ve heard people that essentially “read out loud” inside their head tend to have a have a slower reading pace. I don’t think Anauralia is necessary to not do that, either.

        • 0ops@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          10 months ago

          Oh yeah, often I’ll even have a specific person in mind playing the character: an actor, someone I know, etc. I often don’t even realize that I’m doing this

        • elephantium@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          10 months ago

          if not having to ‘hear’ words changes the rhythm of reading.

          Poetry instantly comes to mind. I have a very different experience when I silently read poetry vs. reading aloud or listening to someone read it aloud, especially when the poem is written with rhythm in mind.

        • lordnikon@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          7 months ago

          it depends on if I heard a voice of that character before for example Batman is always Kevin Conroy and the joker is always Mark Hamill. another usecase is if I listened to the audio book then start reading a text book. Ray Potter shows up alot.

    • NaN@lemmy.sdf.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      10 months ago

      Out of curiosity do you visualize in your mind? Like if I say a stapler can you conjure one?

      The people with both Aphantasia and Anauralia fascinate me.

      • Hackerman_uwu@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        I’ll chuck in my answer since I’ve been asked this before too.

        I don’t “see” a stapler. I perceive a future state where the pages are stapled. This does appear visually in my mind but not a a a picture of stapled pages rather a set of symbols that incorporate the task “to staple” into the other things that I am concerned with at the point of thinking about that task.

        “Set of symbols?” Is probably your follow up question - yes, geometry or iconography that describe the path from here to that future state where that pages are stapled.

        That’s the best I can do. None of this is literally narrated in my mind, however typing this out to you each sentence is “auditioned” as I imagine I am speaking it to you.

        • NaN@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          10 months ago

          That is fascinating! And different than I’ve heard described elsewhere by either the “non-visual” or “non-verbal” thinkers. I think I am pretty generic, when I think of a stapler I literally see a red swingline stapler floating in a void like in a 3d modeling program (that stapler specifically due to the movie Office Space, and therefore I also own one).

            • Wolf_359@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              10 months ago

              Makes total sense to me that you think this way then.

              I teach middle school and I think mostly verbally with pictures thrown in.

              “I should staple this” plays in my head and I have a dreamlike image of a stapler I’m looking for, or perhaps its location. If I focus, I can make those pictures very vivid, but usually they aren’t in my day to day.

              I talk to myself in my head literally non-stop. It’s a full day dialogue with myself - which I suppose makes it a monologue. But it’s pretty involved with a lot of back and forth.

              • Hackerman_uwu@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                10 months ago

                It’s so interesting. I imagine your experience is something like Venoms relationship with Eddie Brock which cracks me up!

      • adam_y@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        10 months ago

        Absolutely. My day job is as a conceptual artist (seriously, the hours are good and I get to travel). Visualising objects is a large part of that. I’ve also worked in video game level design and found thinking in terms of 3D space pretty easy too. Just no words in there, or specifically, no voice.