Neither is the average human being anywhere, just trying to survive a hostile narcissistic environment they have no control over
Rich people are destroying the planet. It’s nobody else’s fault.
It could be. We might be stabbing it with a pretty scary knife it wouldn’t survive, but the capitalists stuff a hydrogen bomb down its throat every day so that doesn’t really matter.
I don’t like this argument that it’s just the rich screwing us over. Ya, they’re dickbags with no small responsibility for perpetuating our current situation and their insane lifestyles. But all of us need to use less junk, travel less, and eat a whole lot less meat.
I know so many people who will talk about the environment, but will still think nothing of hopping on a plane for the most frivolous of reasons. Won’t even consider public transportation. Eats meat every day.
Ya the oligarchy is fucking us over big time. But that doesn’t absolve you of any sort of personal responsibility. Reduce, reuse, recycle. And plant a garden while your at it!
No, we don’t. That’s part of this sick game. Convince the least powerful to sacrifice ever more while the most powerful sacrifice nothing? No. I won’t play this game anymore. I won’t voluntarily impoverish my options in life. Until the wealthy and powerful change, I refuse to make my life more costly or difficult than they’ve already made it. Life is hard enough as it is for the working class, I’m not making it more difficult and for almost zero measurable impact. The magnitude of difference between my impact and theirs makes mine completely, statistically, insignificant. The impact on navigating my life, however, is significant.
No more. Either the rich are brought to heel or we all die together.
And so nothing changes and the planet continues to burn. Keep up your conspicuous consumption because some dickbag has a yacht and custom tax scheme. It’s whataboutisim. For sure fuck the oligarchy. But if all the billionaires died over night it would barely make a dent in our co2 emissions.
But hey! At least you got yours. Don’t worry, the global south will suffer sooner and worse than you.
I don’t have anything. I survive. Almost all I spend is on basic survival. I don’t know who you think I am but I don’t have the luxury of purchasing choice and I especially don’t have the luxury of making my life more expensive than the wealthy have already made it, by sacrificing to resolve your discomfort with the world.
I’d tell you to go talk to the people with power but you already know they don’t care about what you have to say, that’s why you harass the working class, instead.
Lol I’m not trying to harass anyone. Just push back on the notion that all the world’s problems can be laid at the feet of the rich. And if we’re gonna collectively pull ourselves out of this ecological disaster we’ve gotta change. Be willing to eat less meat travel less, consume less overall. And plant a damn garden while you’re at it!
You’re right in that I don’t know anything about you. Except that you’re willing to completely miss the point of what’s been said and decide to take offence.
Why do you care to protect them in the first place? Are you one of them? Lurking on the peasant’s media space, defending the wealthy from their own selfish behavior? Why is the lesson that must be given that the wealthy aren’t as evil as their behavior suggests? Why is that your priority at all?
You give offense with every guilt layden demand that the poor and working class further disempower ourselves to satisfy you. Go nag the wealthy who caused this mess, go guilt them into stopping their companies from despoiling the air, the land, the water. Go demand they end the fossil fuel industry that they own and profit from that we are all forced to participate in.
We will never get out of this without the wealthy changing. So long as they refuse, we are lost. Eat less of the meat we can already barely afford with food prices where they are? Travel less!? Who can afford to travel anywhere? Plant a garden? Where the hell are we supposed to do that? Land is too expensive to even have any of it because the wealthy keep buying it all FFS.
You’re completely out of touch and yet you come here to lecture us about our responsibilities? You’re a class traitor and wealth apologist. If the wealthy refuse to sacrifice to fix the problems they caused then I’d rather watch the world burn.
Lol what part of fuck the oligarchy do you interpret as me “protecting the rich” fuck em. Bring out the guittiones I say. Fuck dude. I’m done
Whos stopping us from reengineering our civilisation to be eco-friendly?
Us. There will always be people who enjoy power games and needless cruelty, that’s just how we are as a species and what all the religions, empires and industries we’ve ever had have been based on.
We’re not capable of being better, the power games and cruelty have always been too well rewarded. It’s ingrained.
Step on the little man to get ahead, prove your place by ostracising the witch, genocide/crusade/colonise to acquire land and spread your religion, fabricate wars to steal resources, vote for the leaders who hate the same people you hate, etc.
It might not be all of us who do this, but it’s always been the majority and they keep winning.
Any attempt at a moral and just society full of like minded people, is always going to end by power games and needless cruelty, either from the people within it or from the people outside it.
That’s just how we are as a species. Collectively, we suck.
It’s guilt by association for those of us who aren’t needlessly cruel and power hungry, but it’s still valid as we will never be able to escape these systems of oppression created and upheld by the rest of our species.
Let’s call that greedy people. I would not mind them being rich if they chose to be a little less rich to pay their people well and earn their money while respecting the environment and protecting the climate.
Nobody earns their way to have hundreds or even tens of millions. That’s a broken system of incentives and resource distribution that they exploit to enrich themselves. All of it, fundamentally, backed by the threat of violence.
In general I just get frustrated with the human slander. No. We’re not all evil assholes. We’re not stupid. We’re a bunch of animals that managed to break out of the normal fight for survival primarily by working together. This all only works because we help each other most of the time. And stupid? Why? Because we don’t all individually understand the massively complex world we’ve created for ourselves?
The bad people and things that happen are bad because they’re exceptional. They break from the norm and aren’t representative of the whole of the human experience. It really sucks that some psychos can take advantage of our behaviors to get us to do awful stuff, but the solution to that isn’t “Woe is me, humans are just bad. Maybe we should all just go away.” Are their victims bad? Do they not deserve to be saved because their oppressors are evil?
You can’t really have any social progress before you recognize that “we can do this” and “we are worth it.” Otherwise what would be the point?
I know right? Thats like saying all dogs are evil because police dogs attack protestors
We’re basically monkey’s with nukes.
That’s humans. Those are human constructs.
That’s animals. Those are animal constructs. Animals are causing climate change.
I don’t know man. I know some of those kids in Africa, and they don’t all prioritize the environment over things like food and shelter.
For sure, but when we total up the list of top contributors, they’re nowhere near the top. So let them, because they’re not “the cause”.
I think that comment was sarcastic.
Yes, but sadly also no. They don’t play in the big leagues, but taken over the whole continent it adds up.
Africa emits about 1.45 billion tonnes of CO2 a year. Saudi Aramco emits 1.6 billion tonnes.
That’s not entirely true though. Emissions from Europe aren’t really that high compared to China and India. I could be wrong but I don’t think the CCP have the same beliefs as the governments of Germany or France or even the USA.
Emissions from Europe aren’t really that high compared to China and India
India’s per capita emissions are lower than any European country except Albania, and China is only moderately higher than EU countries compared to the US, Canada, and Australia.
Total emissions are useless when populations vary so widely between countries.
That’s mostly because India and China don’t have the same standard of living as Europe and the USA. Though China in particular are trying very hard to fix that. I think some anti-climate and anti-renewable forces in the USA also don’t help.
Don’t confuse can’t with don’t. People are people.
Yeah, libs have been slipping on the eco-fascism like a pair of custom-made shoes.
The idea of infinite progression.
Its easy to criticize, but when you ask for a solution, they’ve got nothing. Literally zero.
Except for a large scale die off of humanity.
something something, the planet can only support 1 billion
As if 80% population loss is somehow a solution
Uh… who’s “they?” Because I’ve seen plenty of people propose solutions (usually some combination of renewable energy and environmental protection at the national level).
That’s not a solution. It’s the title of a synopsis of the summary of an omnibus of a solution.
People aren’t concerned with implementing solutions or policy development to achieve solutions. They just want to blame petroleum companies and then spend their paychecks on plastic and airfare.
I think people complaining about the climate generally support at least carbon taxes on these things.
People aren’t concerned with implementing solutions or policy development to achieve solutions.
That’s a strong assertion to make without evidence.
Well akshually, the rising standard and of living in the developing world in general and sub-Saharan Africa in particular means that kids in Africa are contributing to climate change. Now when you ask why kids in Africa can’t fuel their improving standards of living with solar panels instead you’re going to end up at these things, but still.
maybe if yall spent less time on wordplay and more time on finding out where these people live something might get done
Oh, we know where they live. You’ll see. We just need critical mass. A revolution doesn’t happen over night and certainly not all at once everywhere.
It’s easy to forget that sadly most people do no support actually doing anything about it at all. Either they’d rather believe it’s OK, or they’d rather believe that we’re nearly winning.
9 meals. Feast or famine. Blah blah blah. The point being that people’s priorities can and do change very quickly when their material conditions are threatened.
Identify the real enemy.
… does not identify the real enemy.
There’s one word that combines the three and more.
AI datacenters woth their gas turbines
But all humans are destroying* the planet, whether Amazonians or Africans or billionaires.
Every one of those people require land for agriculture or hunting, all of them use natural resources and will until they are expended, all of them have children that exponentially increase the demand on everything we all need (or want).
Billionaires are much more harmful than many thousands and more, it is true… but examples are legion of regular old proles destroying the environment around them once their population reaches a certain level (this varies depending on the local environment).
The simpler/more primitive the society, the less stressors they put on the environment, but they remain stressors regardless.
*By destroy I mean to make it inhospitable for people as we know them, planet will be fine long after we are all gone.
It’s because of the way we live. The capitalist/consumerist lifestyle is not very sustaiable because it burns trough resources too quickly. We could absolutely reengineer our civilization to be more eco-centric but that would hurt the billionaires.
A decentralized network of aquaponics systems could provide everyone with food. Cod houses are free of toxic chemicals. Vehicles that use compressed air in place of gas exist. Food can be cooked with solar cookers. Mechanical computing is a thing. And PCB boards can be made out of clay.
*By destroy I mean to make it inhospitable for people as we know them, planet will be fine long after we are all gone.
What if theres a new humanlike species after we are gone? They would not have the same knowledge as we do and could recreate the same, if not even worse results (especially if they rediscover our nukes) We made so much social progress, we cant just give that up now.
Not all humans! >:(
hehe just like the “not all men”
The “not all men” trope is intended to highlight the unhelpful complicity of that response in the context of patriarchy. It’s not meant to imply the inverse, lest you’ve been walking around supposing that all men are patriarchs. Or similarly, that no cop has ever met their birth father.
Do you think that authoritarianism’s hand in ecological destruction means that as humans it is imperative of all of us to overthrow authoritarianism, or do you think it means that all humans are bad and must perish?
