15 billion to private companies to retool and whatever. But then they sell us what they make. None of that goes back to the tax payers.
If you work for someone else in this country you are a joke it seems.
Stopping climate change benefits everyone, including the taxpayers.
This isn’t going to put a dent in climate change. It just isn’t. Wake me up when we change our stance on Nuclear since that is the only thing that will bolster renewable energy, which is a stop gap.
Furthermore, if the US government actually cared about fighting climate change they would invest in public transportation across the country, making those EV, since they A. Go shorter distances and B. Can carry more people, and they would also tax the shit out of the fossil fuel industry and manufacturing sector for their wonton pollution. It’s called internalizing the externalities and it needed to happen 10 years ago. We’re so fucked.
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EV cars are meant to be powered with green energy, but you need a demand and a supply of that first or you’re just powering them with coal instead of oil.
Common myth. Coal makes up a small percentage of power in the US and Europe, and EVs powered by literally anything other than coal (including natural gas) are a net win for the climate over ICE vehicles.
For example, where I live, coal is 3% of the energy mix. Renewables (including hydro) are 42%, and nuclear is 9%.
What’s the other 46%?
38% natural gas and the rest “unspecified”, probably smaller energy generation projects that don’t fit neatly into other categories.
Edit: did some more research and “unspecified” means power imported from other states that didn’t document the source of the power.
It just isn’t.
OH SHIT, SOMEONE CALL THE SCIENTISTS, THIS DUDE ON THE INTERNET HAS PROVED ALL OF YOU WRONG
renewable energy, which is a stop gap
Shill detected.
Stopping climate change by…
Removing fossil fuels from the grid? Reducing methane leakage in natural gas transmission? Developing domestic nuclear energy?
Maybe reducing car-dependency to make more efficient use of land and reduce the excessive amounts of taxpayer money being dumped to subsidize suburban development? Reducing inefficient flights between close cities (LAX-SFO, BOS-JFK-DCA)? Building more efficient buildings?
How about taking advantage of the already insanely efficient supply chains in China that allow for the development of sub-10k EVs? Helping those companies launch in the US and bring their expertise with them to accelerate the EV transition like China has?
Nah, let’s just give some more money to a few big EV manufacturers, I’m sure that’ll fix everything.
More than one thing can happen at the same time.
I’m sorry for shattering your world-view like this.
You realize how much money is going towards EV subsidies? They’re extremely inefficient uses of money.
Not nearly enough. We need to be subsidizing them to the level we subsidize oil.
The only way to stop climate change is to drastically reduce the human population.
Ok, you first.
We pay at least twice. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to be?
(/S)
“oh it’s expensive to make electric vehicles so we have to upsell them at 50k+, even though we get government support”
We will always give money to our industries to make up for the lack of long term planning in our system. I certainly do not understand what concept of fucking justice that is related to.
I certainly do not understand what concept of fucking justice that is related to.
This concept of justice:
higher scores will be given to projects that are likely to retain collective bargaining agreements and/or those that have an existing high-quality, high-wage hourly production workforce, such as applicants that currently pay top quartile wages in their industry.
And that’s good. But what would be better for the planet would be building up a public transportation system so robust that cars are unnecessary outside of rural areas.
I was just listening to a Parenti lecture where he talked about an interaction he had with someone who had been in high up in East Germany. He basically asked, “why did you put out those crappy little two cylinder engine cars?” And the ex-officials response was essentially, “we didn’t want to put them into cars at all, we thought if we provided an adequate public transportation system, that people would be satisfied, but they weren’t so we had to do what we could.”
I agree with you fully, that public transport would be the ideal solution, far and away above electric vehicles, which just providing one for every household in the US would require such s massive amount of material extraction that it by itself will cause significant climate outcomes, but, we must find a way around the impulse for private personal transportation that exists within people, and I don’t know how to do so. Moving without the mass of people could lead to rejection and reactionary movements. Moving with the mass will lead to climate destruction. How do we work with the masses to come to a compromise that allows the support of the masses, while reducing the number of private vehicles to nearly zero?
Maybe as a miniscule offset to the ungodly sums still being spent to prop up the fossil fuel industry.
neoliberalism in a nutshell
I was hoping for a cash for clunkers 2.0
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oh no, won’t someone think of the… checks notes… classic car enthusiasts?
First the charging infrastructure needs to be better
It’s well on its way. And most people charge at home day to day.
They should start fining VW for their failure to maintain Electrify America.
Hell I’ll take a clunker to e-clunker conversion kit plan.
That would be amazing
“Strong and just”? You’re not going to win over fascists by using their keywords. Maybe tone it down a little for those of us who still recall “Operation Shock and Awe” and the “War on drugs” and “The PATRIOT Act” and all the associated “collateral damage”.
It just makes me think there’s something hidden in there of which we should all be very suspicious, even if there might not be.
Note: I welcome less environmental damage and reskilling workers into sustainable energy industries and products. I hope this bill isn’t the result of industry lobbying by EV manufacturers, but I note the lack of environmental goals contrasts with the large amounts of money being put into industry grants and loans.
“Strong and just”? You’re not going to win over fascists by using their keywords.
LMAO
Having the feds $15.5 billion on EVs is a waste unless you nationalize the railroads.
Should be fining the fucking companies instead of cuddling them with more money. “Oh, you’ve been constantly fighting this thing I want you to do, here’s some money so maaaaaaaaaayyyyybe you’ll do it now, pretty please?”
15B is a drop in the bucket. Throwing money at things doesn’t solve problems. Especially that small an amount. Only better policy decisions solve problems.
Isn’t support for EV transition a policy decision…?
While Congress is perpetually locked down by Republicans from doing any real legitimate progressive legislation, this seems like the most Biden can do. And I think it could be argued it’s not terrible considering how absolutely fucking immovable our entire political system is for the past 3 decades.
This is just gonna fuck the poor who can’t afford electric cars, while the upper class who can afford them will get more breaks
Car is a privilege not a right. Use bus.
Your mum is taking up all the seats
I really don’t want an electric car.
You said that a already
Then don’t. I’m not, my next car will be ICE and the one after that. It’s neat to watch people waste their money on these EVs though.
I really don’t want an electric car.
Edit: I really didn’t expect such a response to my comment or I would have elaborated. Primary factor is cost, cost of replaceing the battery and initial cost of the vehicle purchase.
I do not have money to buy a new vehicle and there is no way I’m going to buy a used electric vehicle. A used electric vehicle will probably Also need a need battery. Until longevity can be proven I’m going to take that gamble.
Also repairability is another very big factor in not getting an electric vehicle for me. I am going to be buying a used car I don’t think I will ever buy a new car even if I had the money and a used electric vehicle is not in the cards until they can prove longevity and you can’t do that with a lithium ion battery.
In addition the electronic parts including the battery use rare, precious metals that are becoming increasingly rare. We don’t even have a way to recycle those batteries as far as I am aware. I’m not saying we don’t need a better alternative, but, I don’t think that’s it.
And that’s okay! There are plenty of ways to use climate-friendly means of transportation if your area has the infrastructure for it. If it doesn’t, buying/utilizing used cars with good gas mileage and adjusting how much you drive, supporting climate-friendly legislation, and raising awareness are the best things you can do until biking/walking/etc. is more accessible for you - or until you can move to a high-density area with those options, if that’s the goal.
Electric cars are a great step forward, but currently lack the efficiency and affordability of ICE vehicles. Plus, they ultimately serve as a means to maintain the stability of the Auto industry in an increasingly environmentally-conscious society.
That’s a very big issue, cost, I can’t afford to buy any new car and there’s no way I’m buying a used electric. Cost of battery replacement and repairability is another huge factor.
I just don’t understand what’s so green about electric cars? Lithium mining plus everything else associated with the manufacturing process doesn’t seem too green to me.
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth2
While I agree with the sentiment that EVs aren’t the most efficient alternative in terms of lowering carbon footprint, they are definitely better than ICE vehicles for consumer use. They are even more so when you have an electrical grid running off of solar, wind, and water.
I always tell people the greenest solution when it comes to cars is to just not buy a new one. Use whatever you have until it can’t be used. Then buy a EV, preferably used but sometimes you need new due to availability or mileage.
I’m a contractor and have been working out of a 2 door Jeep for the past 8 years and it’s time to buy a truck. I’d be down for an F150 Lightning, but I’m not about to try to afford $50k (plus dealer markups) when I can get a decent used long bed rig for about $30k that already has a utility bed. The added weight of a utility bed plus tools and materials will destroy that mileage estimate, so if I have jobs that are a decent ways away, I don’t have time to sit for 30-60min to charge. Until range gets better and I can get something more conducive to my job, I’m kinda stuck. I’d take a van, but we get snowy winters and all the 4x4 vans are ridiculously expensive because of the van life crowd, and I sure as hell am not putting on chains unless it’s R3.
The F-150 lightning pisses me off. They released it for $40k but it sold really well so they raised the prices several times.
It’s a great truck but they want to price it out of being sellable. $40k is right on par with a brand new f-150.
I will say, the mileage isn’t destroyed by the utility bed. I don’t own one but I have spoken to owners. I drove PA to Kentucky on my Niro EV and met someone hauling farming equipment in OH. They were going from FL to Illinois. Said he still gets close to the 300 mile range while hauling so it’s a bit of a hit, but not as much as people think.
That being said, the people who drive a lot every day are the toughest sells and for good reason. People who drive a bit in the city think they drive more than they do. But realistically I think everyone needs to actually check how many miles they drive a week and not just assume how much they drive.
EV’s aren’t ready for a lot of driving jobs but are getting there. And charging is getting better too. My trip to KY had an average charging stop of 10 minutes. Compared to a gas station that’s filling up and running in for a restroom break. It depends on whats in your area but that tech is around
We get the majority of our lithium from an area that has zero life and has had no recorded rainfall. Their lifetime CO2 emissions compared to an ICE vehicle is significantly lower even using the most polluting power source. There is just no comparison.
They aren’t really green per se, it’s just that gasoline powered cars are so much worse.
Better to reduce or eliminate driving if you can.
Could Intrest you in an Ebike?
E scooters too, look like a ton of fun
I can understand the sentiment. It might help to explain why, though.
I prefer electric bikes.
I’d really like to try out some E-bikes. There are so many models these days, and I already enjoy cycling. Unfortunately I think the potholes all over my city might disagree with any decision to buy one.
They make some pretty rugged fat-tires nowadays. I think they’re kind of overkill for most people but if you live in a place with poor infrastructure it could be useful.
You are right I updated my comment as I mentioned in the update I really didn’t expect to have that kind of a response so I didn’t bother putting more work into it and I should have.
Great thoughts on the situation!
