CHILLICOTHE, Ohio — A recent incident at Adena Health System has intensified scrutiny of its cardiology department. A 65-year-old woman died during what should have been a routine heart catheterization, leading to pressing questions about the practices and credentials of the physicians involved. What happened after her time of death is concerning.

  • gibmiser@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    126
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    “Separate allegations made by colleagues indicate that he and another physician, Dr. Matos Cruz, were observed watching YouTube videos on medical procedures they were unfamiliar with. One patient reportedly died after such a procedure, while another had to undergo three additional procedures at Ohio State University, according to families connected to the procedures.”

    Fucking youtube doctors. Wow.

    • RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      106
      ·
      1 year ago

      I just want to point out of all the things here this is the least alarming, although context is key. Trust me when I say your medical professionals are googling and YouTubing all kinds of shit. I’ve watched doctors google procedures before attempting them, especially if it’s a rare procedure. YouTube actually has hundreds of hours of manufacturer hosted content designed specifically for this. Now again context is key. They say someone died after they attempted the thing they were searching. That’s def a problem especially if it were some procedure they should be fully competent to perform.

      If your mechanic is googling how to change some obscure part on a car he rarely works on, mmmm that’s reasonable. If your mechanic is googling ‘how to turn on windshield wiper Toyota Camry’ we got problems.

      I remember sitting at the nurses station one day and someone asked the ER doc if she was familiar with this extremely rare genetic disorder. She goes ‘how dare you ask me that question I am a MEDICAL DOCTOR.’ There was a bit of a pause and she goes ‘ haha just kidding I have no idea but I’m gonna look it up’ .

      • DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        53
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        This. Knowledgeable professionals “google” things all the time.

        If you need an unusual procedure, would you prefer your surgeon googled it to find a video of some prof explaining it, or a surgeon that just tries to remember.

        • Tatters@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          21
          ·
          1 year ago

          As a programmer, I have made a career from being one step ahead, thanks to Google. I don’t bother with formal training courses anymore, when a quick skim of Google gives me what I need much quicker. Text books? I have not bought one in decades.

          • Daft_ish@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Tears for your career when someday you search some obscure code in a language you don’t regularly use and it comes back with only ads for a paid sub for a high powered coding AI.

            • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              1 year ago

              Or when your employer is sued by stack exchange after a code audit because their TOS says they own the copyright on all user submitted code and their whole business model is get everyone used to using it and go after businesses for copyright violation because programmers copy paste code blurbs.

              • Redscare867@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                10
                ·
                1 year ago

                The number of code snippets that can be copied and pasted and fit your use-case exactly is almost 0. The number of those code snippets that are well written and would survive code review is even smaller. Stack overflow is good for getting an idea of what libraries exist. Good programmers use it for inspiration and move on to official docs from there (assuming they exist).

                • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  There’s usually other non-stack exchange resources that pop up in searches so I’ll just scroll on to those.

                  And that copy pasting can include changing variable names to match yours while still violating copyright. And I agree that good programmers don’t even do that, but there’s a lot of not so good programmers out there.

          • DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I have made a career from being one step ahead, thanks to Google.

            I’m speechless. Just surprised someone would actually say that.

          • Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I am the same way. Taught myself c#,Unity, Blender, Gimp, Audacity and more and made a top rated VR app in a 3 year period. Now I still the these resources, plus several AI’s. Love how accessible information and knowledge is becoming.

        • athos77@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          or a surgeon that just tries to remember.

          Especially since medical science has almost certainly advanced since their days in medical school, and it’s absolutely impossible to keep up with all the new discoveries, medications and procedures.

        • RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          Absolutely true but when it comes to certain procedures that use specific pieces of equipment you often have to use manufacturers content as guidance. There’s also a lot lot of content online for different techniques and approaches to care that might not be accessible otherwise.

          I’m not a doctor but jump on uptodate any chance I can. But I frequently use trusted resources on sites like YouTube for broader topics for refreshers or if it’s a particular skill I’m working on and the source is trusted.

          Again there’s a huge jump from doing a bit of refreshing and say, popping a YouTube video on for a serious procedure and then going yolo without the proper training to actually do it.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        I have a rare nerve disorder and I’m always impressed when doctors know what it is. I can tell when they know too, because their reaction is usually, “Oh! Oh.” And then the pity starts and I have to tell them to snap out of it.

      • bobman@unilem.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        17
        ·
        1 year ago

        I don’t think we need to pivot to mechanics vs. doctors.

        We can stay on subject without resorting to analogies that are never a 1:1 representation of the situation at hand.

        • Promethiel@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          What do you mean? It’s perhaps the most apt analogy I can think of. In the strictest literal sense, physiological care is a flesh mechanic servicing your flesh parts. The main difference here is a matter of scope, but that is the point of analogies; to reframe a thought in a smaller and comprehensible way.

          Only way we could stay 1:1 is if the discussion is solely populated with qualified medical professionals and not a mix of differently educated laypeople.

          • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Laypeople is the time-honored term unless you’re specifically referring to men. Although in certain religious contexts, “the laity” is preferred.

            • ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Laypeople is a very new term. Layman is the time honored term, because people think -man means male. Werelay and wyflay would be gendered terms specifically referring to men or women, layman is ungendered.

              In recent times we’ve changed the meaning of the suffix -man to be synonymous with the prefix were-.

              It’s a shame, because it implies we were something we weren’t (re: sexism in that part of language) - but I am not defending the stance of not changing it. Just be aware: it’s new.

            • Promethiel@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              I absolutely agree, thank you for the spot check. Old dog got stuck in muscle memory before coffee. Editing.

    • Fredselfish@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      20
      ·
      1 year ago

      The “dr” who performed the original surgery was already facing alligations that his creditionals were not up to par. How the fuck was they allowing him into surgery? I hope this hospital gets sued into bankruptcy and they throw that kid in prison for malpractice and murder.

  • garretble@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    33
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    This is terrible, but from the four images shown in this thumbnail I have a pretty good guess of whose idea it was.

  • medgremlin@lemmy.sdf.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    28
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    I looked up the procedure they were doing, a TVAR, and most institutions require a cardiac or cardiothoracic surgeon to perform the procedure or at least be involved with it. The accused here has a fellowship in interventional cardiology which covers more basic catheter-based procedures like stents; but valve replacement, even trans-catheter ones, are almost always handled by proper CT surgeons.

  • Aviandelight @mander.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    19
    ·
    1 year ago

    The fact that they staged the patient being on life support to hide obvious medical malpractice is beyond words. The psychological trauma to the family is horrible. How could you even justify putting that type of guilt on others to hide your own misdeeds is beyond me. There has better be some revoking of medical licenses happening after this case.

    • FilthyHookerSpit@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      1 year ago

      The article says one nurse believed that the patient didn’t even need the surgery. I think criminal charges might be warranted.

  • Otkaz@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    20
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Somewhat related, during my time working in an ER, we had a dedicated family viewing room where grieving families could gather after a loved one’s passing. On one occasion, a young man arrived as a suspected overdose. One of the nurses, seeing his youth, went above and beyond to make him appear more dignified before the family’s arrival, even propping up the head of his bed. When I came in to bag the body for transport after they had all left, lowering the head of the bed caused his legs to flop into the air. You can imagine how challenging it was to fit a body into a body bag when it’s shaped like an L.

    • FFbob@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      1 year ago

      At my previous job I did hospital triage. Once a guy walked up to me and said “My wife isn’t doing well, I think she’s dead”. He told me she had been sick for several days and when she started doing really badly he had to get his neighbor to help carry her to the car. He said he didn’t want to bother the fire department.

      He had driven from his home on the eastern fucking shore of Maryland to DC. 100+ miles. Told me he was going to be staying at his house in Maryland because he didn’t like his house in DC. She came out of the passenger seat and stayed in a seated position and we put her in an unstaffed room.

        • MuffinHeeler@aussie.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          Rigor mortise.

          A postmortem change resulting in the stiffening of the body muscles.

          Basically when you have been dead for a little while, you stay in the position you are in. So a seated dead body went stiff on the drive to the hospital and stayed in that position even when taken out of the car.

  • jeffw@lemmy.worldM
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    1 year ago

    Further concerns have arisen regarding Dr. Rehman. Separate allegations made by colleagues indicate that he and another physician, Dr. Matos Cruz, were observed watching YouTube videos on medical procedures they were unfamiliar with. One patient reportedly died after such a procedure, while another had to undergo three additional procedures at Ohio State University, according to families connected to the procedures.

    Jesus… just own up if you don’t feel comfortable doing a procedure

    • BOMBS@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      They might have been worried about their image. I’ve heard that narcissistic and psychopathic personalities are common among surgeons.

  • Default_Defect@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    13
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    I get heart catheterizations at my yearly check ups for my heart transplant. Reading this made me feel sick. I’m so glad I go to a very well renown hospital for it.

    • JokeDeity@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      My 27 year old fiance just had to have a heart ablation and reading this nearly brought me to tears thinking about what could have happened.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yes, I’m guessing that part of it is that Chillicothe is in the middle of nowhere (I went to a trade school there).

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    I was told here on Lemmy recently that “The Todd” from Scrubs is basically true about surgeons, so this shouldn’t have surprised me.