I get that it’s open source provided you use codium not code but I still find that interesting
Because the hate is based on their shitty OS. They did a fairly good job with VSCode. Our hate isn’t blind.
Not hate in my case, but I don’t like ms and it’s because of the shit they have done in 90s and 2000s. Their current support of linux is not something I trust.
My baby actually. Look, MS is a powerful company and they’re making a lot of desperate strategic purchases as their main business corrodes. Their brand is more based on gaming. Their infrastructure? The cloud and github. They’ve got the butter and they’re looking for bread to slap it across.
Yeah, I have a deep seated fear for the future of GitHub in the long run. Seems too ripe for eventual enshitification.
Well, this seems inevitable. But on the other hand, Github is really unique in the business and labor market too.
- Huge and important companies depend on it for hosting code.
- These same companies depend on open source projects.
- These same companies depend on programmers posting to their Github to share examples of their skills with the world, being potential employees.
Now if you can enshittify Github in a way that doesn’t fuck with how important people use it too much, it will be after changes to how the tech hiring environment works - worldwide.
Apparently in OP’s case it is.
VScode is the epitome of the EEE strategy. The core product is open-source, but it’s filled to the brim with tracking and the official extensions have DRM. Yes, there’s DRM on your python LSP.
Anyone who gives a shit should look for alternatives right away. The problem is just that there aren’t any that are as easy to set up.
Shouldn’t using VSCodium solve the telemetry problem?
Aren’t there FOSS linters which work for VSCodium?
I hate Google but they gave us Go, Kubernetes. I hate Amazon but they gave us AWS. I plainly hate those companies, but adore the brilliant engineers that work there.
Google is also one of the most prolific contributors to Linux, and was the #3 corporate contributor in 2022. If you’re avoiding everything Google had a hand in you literally can’t use any GNU/Linux.
It’s almost as though the beauty of open source is that it doesn’t matter who contributes, we all benefit from the result because we can all check each other’s work and all use what we want
Google is perfect at getting rich by shipping disgusting 90% FOSS 10% Tracking software. Literally all their Android Apps are closed source tracking malware. AOSP gets nearly no attention. But yeah, good Platforms
Well, yes, the end products of GAFAM aren’t designed to respect users’ freedom, but rather to control them. That doesn’t mean we can’t extract the good parts of what they do and create user-respecting alternatives. Standard Android sucks but we have LineageOS and GrapheneOS, for example.
A tool, like any human creation, is imbued with the agenda of its creators. The freedom to share and modify the tool is what allows the community to override the initial creator’s agenda. If free software comes with tracking malware the community will create a version without it. The community thus acts as a check against the power of the core developers.
This is why I’m against blindly rejecting anything that GAFAM has contributed to, as long as there is a freedom-respecting community version available.
Not to mention the Web itself. Google (and Apple and Microsoft) are major contributors to HTML as a standard.
This is a very very good answer, and perfectly portrays my feelings, as well.
Google is not deeply rooted in trying to harm the free/open software movement, unlike Microsoft. MS has always been the ideological enemy of Linux.
So much they made WSL and made many developers happy. People acting like nothing has changed in more than 30 years.
How exactly is WSL helping anyone but MS? It’s there so devs on Windows don’t get tempted to try actual Linux
I only use vim.
i have been trapped for 2 years now… hope seems pointlessyou get trapped in Vim because you dont know how to exit.
i get trapped because ive sunk so much time configuring
May your vimrc be passed down through the ages
Its all I’m leaving my kids
😂
This is so true
VSCode is the only Electron program I know of that does not feel like using McDonald’s kiosk on virtual machine over remote desktop.
Over dailup
I’m thinking of making an Android app with electron (NC I don’t know Java Kotlin whatever lmao) is performance that bad?
Electron is for desktops OSes, so I think SE are talking about different things.
And it’s not only about performance, even when that programs are running on best machines it still looks like alien and not fit.
Unfortunately it’s not a drop in replacement. The biggest issue was certain extensions are not available on codium.
If you want to support Microsoft then at least give them your personal data too. Don’t tease the poor corpo :-(
My bigger problem is many swear on FLOSS, but using Apple is OK. Go to a FLOSS conference and there are Macs everywhere.
It’s undeniable that Microsoft has had positive influences on the opensource world with language servers, debug adapter protocol, an inbrowser editor that is seemingly embedded in any website with a code editor, cross-platform C# (maybe that’s a curse though, I dunno), linux contributions, and probably more I’m not aware of. Apple… I dunno. Vendor lock-in and more electronic trash?
Apple isn’t okay. Apple is forced onto developers. The general population using Apple products requires developers to use Macs. And, last time I checked, it’s a lot easier carrying around one laptop than two. It also doesn’t hurt that Apple products aren’t exactly the quality of off-brand Chinese laptops.
I am one of those people. I have a Macbook Air laptop, which I mainly use to remote into my Linux desktop while on the go (mainly with vscode by the way). I found this to be sweet spot of usability, while at home the laptop is in a bag, charging and waiting for the next outing. This way I can enjoy the niceties of having a big desktop PC (performance, a LOT of USB ports, a huge monitor).
The reason I have the Apple laptop is mainly because of the lightness and battery life. No other machine comes close to it. For now I sort of treat it as a dumb terminal, so MacOS is not a big hassle for me (except for the insanely dumb window management). I will try to ditch MacOS as soon as Asahi Linux releases webcam and microphone support, because it is the only thing that is stopping me from using it.
And yeah, the ugly truth is that once I damage the screen or the SSD fails, the whole thing becomes e-waste (and money-waste).
I mean if it’s the choice between Fisher-Price Linux in a decently good looking package or Windows in whatever (maybe entirely useless spec) machine your employer offers, it’s probably better to get the Mac for a lot of people.
Apple does have some open source contributions. One example is CUPS, which was made by Apple and is now used by most modern Linux distros for managing printers. If you want more examples you’ll have to ask someone who actually likes Apple, I’m sure they can think of more.
cross-platform C#
Sure it’s cross platform, but it lacks feature parity with the Windows version. And the development experience is lacking on Linux. It’s not even that they haven’t brought everything over, it’s that they’ve even removed features, like hot-reload, from Linux.
is that a typo of FOSS or is FLOSS something else?
Your daily reminder that VSCode is shit not because of telemetry (take your time foil hat off for one second and hear me out and I say that jokingly with love) but because the extension marketplace is not allowed to be accessed by third party tools (INCLUDING CODIUM) and even then many of the extensions are proprietary, closed source. You’re not even allowed to distribute compiled VSIX files. It’s disgusting. Reading about the troubles gitpod faced that led to the (now) Eclipse Marketplace (idk the name, but it’s for VS Code plugins, don’t be tricked, it’s just owned by Eclipse foundation) is disheartening.
Oh shit really? I knew their debugger was locked down didn’t know extensions were
Codium seems to have all the same extensions though, has someone else just setup their own marketplace?
Yeah, there is an open marketplace. It’s the one Codium uses by default. The problem is there’s no way for the controllers to just mirror everything because of the licenses. Also some of the extensions don’t work with Codium even if you download manually from the website because of bullshit like tweaking the name or whatever.
Those that truly dislike MS and telemetry won’t.
If I’m using non-free it is Jet Brains.
I tend to use Kate, KDevelop.
MS still slurping code into Copilot from Github and telemetry in VSCode.
MS still slurping code into Copilot from […] telemetry in VSCode.
Would you happen to have a source for that? At a cursory glance, it looks like VSCode only does that if you’re using Copilot, but if you don’t have the extension installed they aren’t.
VScode is proprietary and is a black box. The scary think for me is that you don’t know what the program is doing
Time to run VSCodium
Unless Quake was made with Copilot, that seems very unlikely:
Could you get Kate to work with LSP for say svelte or vuejs ?
Kate has native LSP support, which by default uses “typescript-language-server” for JavaScript. As I don’t really do much JavaScript stuff I can’t say how well it works, or if it works with those particular frameworks.
https://docs.kde.org/stable5/en/kate/kate/kate-application-plugin-lspclient.html
Neovim user here. Granted it takes some time to setup properly but it’s really fast with navigating through files, lsp functions and doing a search in thousands of files.
I found vscode too slow and bloated for my taste.
Having come from full fat visual studio and using fairly fast machines VS code is a breeze to use.
Though I can’t imagine it can compare to commandline stuff in that regard obviously
Is there much reason to learn vim nowadays? I was under the impression it’s mostly around for people who got used to it back in the day
Knowing vim is pretty essential for working on servers. My usual setup is ssh + tmux + vim. I suppose you could substitute nano for vim if it’s installed.
I know I couldn’t.
I’ve not run into a server without nano installed yet and it’s perfectly serviceable if all I need is to edit one value in a config file
If you have to ask, maybe not. But if you’re mostly “keyboard driven”, code and edit files a lot, it’s (vim or neovim) very much worth trying out.
For me personally I am most productive in Neovim. But if you can’t be arsed to fiddle around with config files to get things set up it’s probably not worth the effort.
Use what works best for you.
I think I’ll probably end up doing it regardless because I have a weird urge to make everything as difficult and custom as possible
Got used to gnome, finally got it just how I liked it then threw it out for hyprland
It’s great if you get used to it and put in the time to set it the way you want it. I find IDE’s very bloated.
As noted by others, if you do work on remote hosts, it’s priceless. That’s how I got used to it and I now find VSCode slow and unintuitive.
Vscode can actually run over ssh but you need to install the Vscode server which is not ideal for some
Just the matter of taste. For some users who want to get to code quickly, they use VSCode without the hassle. For some power users who want to have extreme extensibility, they use Emacs/Vim.
Don’t use vscode, use vsCodium, all the goodness of vscpde with none of the sleezy ms tracking
It’s kinda like using chromium instead of chrome, isn’t it? Don’t use either; use firefox.
No idea what the editor equivalent would be though… Emacs or vim maybe? Next to noone uses it, but it has so much more potential, if only it where widely adopted.
There really isn’t for free, at least as far as I am aware. You are probably right that Emacs can come somewhat close with the right packages and setup, but VSCode extensions just makes everything so much quicker and easier. JetBrains is also similarly good, but it’s obviously not FOSS, and I guess it would be considered a full IDE not a text editor.
Next to nobody uses in your bubble maybe. Not on my watch tho.
Yes but no, I meant in society overall. In my group of friends some use vim but weirdly even some rhel-admins stuck with nano. I’ve yet to meet someone using emacs irl, but i haven’t been looking either :P
I mentioned vscodium. I believe many of the official extensions have telemetry too though
The extension marketplace VSCodium uses by default requires that extensions have telemetry off by default
Its not only Microsoft crap, its also an Electron app!
I use Kate.
“Most of us hate microsoft” is honestly a pretty bold claim. They’re just a company that makes software. The vast majority of the world’s Linux users–which is to say, professionals who build or manage software that runs in Linux–don’t care about them one way or another.
This sub might have an ideological skew, but you still don’t know what people in here think about Microsoft.
Microsoft has been a pain for Linux professionals and maintainers for decades. M$ called Linux a cancer and actively developed strategies to harm us. Look up halloween documents. No reason to believe they are different now.
No I hate MS. I won’t ever forget the pain that was developing edge cases around Internet Explorer (fuck IE 6, that shit was the worst).
To be fair, when ie6 came out it was a really good browser. The concept of evergreen browsers wasn’t broadly a thing back in 2001. Windows XP was a huge success and there was no way to convince the world to move off of it and many companies built their intranets specifically around ie6. I think it was Korea that built all their banking off of Active X.
I’m talking about the ideological skew
Even the linux memes communities/subs have better takes than the purist ones lol
I’m an old OS/2 user. Count me as a Microsoft hater.
You csn hate a company and like a product. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
This reminds me of when my dad holds an ideological belief about something based on politicians he doesn’t like who support it.
“Climate change isn’t real because Al Gore…”
“Supply Side Jesus isn’t valid because Al Franken…”
“Affirmative Action is racist because Al Sharpton…”
Actually now that I think about it, maybe he just doesn’t like people named Al…🤔
But anyway, if it’s open source, and the source is sufficiently audited by third parties, and I’m able to compile and run it myself, and running it doesn’t have undesired behavior (telemetry etc) then I don’t care who wrote it, because it does exactly what I need it to.
Unfortunately VSCode is not an open-source product, it’s only based on an open-source product. It’s the difference between Chrome and Chromium. VSCode does have telemetry. VSCode is licensed under Microsoft’s proprietary license.
So I suspect you don’t use any extensions or found a way not to get them from Microsoft?
I don’t use vscode, I was just explaining that my requirements for using an open source product for my personal uses are independent of who wrote the code. I’m never going to say “I won’t use X source code just because Y wrote it”, that’s just silly. If I have the code, and it does what I would want it to do if I wrote it myself, and it doesn’t do anything I don’t want it to do, then I don’t care where it came from.
Lately I’ve been using Neovim.
Yes, and I was adding that it is not enough for the product to be open source if the ecosystem surrounding it (e.g. extensions) still drives you to use proprietary software
You’re right, it’s not open source if it’s not open source. Good point.
