- cross-posted to:
- hardware@hardware.watch
- cross-posted to:
- hardware@hardware.watch
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What would be the Dell option for a conservatively styled laptop that has a GeForce RTX GPU?
Seems that Dell is pushing to their Alienware line but their laptops are just ugly
“Dell shoots itself in the foot and will only realise in 3 years”
I still remember when XPS was the premiere gaming brand Dell released to compete with the likes of Alienware, only for them to buy Alienware and relegate XPS to a higher budget multimedia catalog.
The names outstayed their welcome, but I cannot applaud them copying Apple’s homework.
I was going to joke Dell killed XPS a long, long time ago already.
Dear random strangers,
I have bought Thinkpad T for many years following your advice. Then I moved to Dell Latitude 3 years ago as this was your recommendation. So far, very happy with them!
Where should I go for my next laptop? Is it time for framework?
(I’m looking for 14" business laptops, excellent screen, good audio, light and solid, performance is a nice-to-have, Linux-only)
I have owned a Framework 13 AMD for about half a year and I have to say that it’s a bit overpriced for what it is. It’s probably a better idea to just get a similarily priced Windows laptop (like Asus Zenbook or Lenovo X1 Carbon / T-series) and install Linux on it.
Thanks. That’s too bad because I really want them to succeed
For good graphics performance in a smallish package, I like Lenovo Legion.
If graphics aren’t a concern, then I have no more specific recommendation, too much choice. I like flip style laptops, but I don’t know if those have proper Linux support. I’d also look for a screen larger than 14", but with thin bezels.
I will not do any gaming on my laptop, I really only need a quality screen to read documents and display the occasional Netflix video
Don’t get a framework. It’s a gimmicky waste of money.
Why exactly do you need a new laptop, anyways? Have your hardware requirements really increased that much in 3 years to warrant looking for a new device?
While I like the general objectives behind framework, I am not convinced about their standard qualities.
My laptop is fine, I just want to understand the trends in the industry and where to buy when it eventually dies. For the record, I have a Dell Latitude 7410 released in 2020 (bought used) and it works perfectly. However, I wish I could have better audio, higher-quality trackpad, and a lighter laptop.
Why do you say that about the framework?
Because it’s overpriced. You can get better hardware for lower prices.
The framework laptop only exists to take money from people who don’t know any better and want to feel 1337.
Yes get a framework.
Thanks!
MSI seems rock solid.I would never again recommend MSI… I bought a 3000€ MSI Creator 3 years ago for work :
- the hinges are breaking apart
- some metal part on the size broke
- the keyboard letter are scraping off
- the microphone on Linux is unusable because of the fans
Reaplcing the keyboard requires a full body replacement, which costs like 300€ 🙃
I’ve also had some very bad experiences with a entry price gaming msi for someone in my family.
It seems like every other PC Laptop has a problem whether it’s a Lenovo or Asus for example, my feedback on MSI has been good so far mostly based post-pandemic but things indeed can change if that’s your case. Do you have any preference of your own?
The worst build laptop that I’ve ever held in my hands was from MSI. Cooling problems that made the fans work almost permanently at full blast (even after repasting by the shop), underperforming for the specs, a chassis with too much flex and a broken screen hinge after slightly more than 2 years (just out of warranty). When I looked up the screen hinge problem, it turned out to be an old recurring problem that MSI never bothered to fix when releasing new models, like they couldn’t be arsed to give a fuck.
This laptop was bought in about 2017 or 2018 after which I put MSI on the do not buy list. It’s possible that they’ve improved their quality since then, but I doubt it, given that I can find the same complaints in forum posts from 2024:
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/are-hinge-issues-still-a-thing.343279/page-5My views were based on post-pandemic after Asus started becoming unreliable for my original recommendation of Asus ROG G14 where Lenovo to Razer are pretty much hated as well by users. If this is the case, then I can only think of MacBooks with VMWare or Virtual Box if not Asahi Linux.
Why do people hate Lenovo and Razer? From what I’ve read in the past early Razer laptops had a battery problem, but that was it. I can’t recall systemic laptop design issues. And Lenovo has a malignant bloatware problem, but that’s not a problem at all if going for Linux. So I’m out of the loop on what’s supposedly wrong with these 2.
I was under the impression they were more gaming oriented than “business”, am I mistaken then?
XPS used to be the premium gaming brand Dell released to compete with the likes of Alienware, only for them to buy Alienware and relegate XPS to high end enterprise category. Gaming only means a Nvidia GPU or proper performance but don’t fall for AI PC to Ultrabook kind of categorisations with Windows side of things - Whether you’re into LLM, Content Generation, Data Processing, Blender, Editing, Gaming or even Mining… all will be achieved as long as the CPU-GPU is capable. Razer is one example that copies MacBook Pro aesthetics while having RGBs to cater to both professionals and gamers with one product line but aren’t necessarily with good or respectable after sales service.
I would’ve suggested Asus ROG as well like the G14 for price-to-performance ratio but they’ve been recently falling from grace as well mostly realised by users after the purchase is complete. Not many options are there really globally.
Well that sucks. I haven’t bought an XPS since the Dell XPS 15z like over a decade ago, but still, the idea that I could buy an XPS Developer Edition laptop and have it be Linux compatible without having to think about it was nice. Now I’m limited to ThinkPads and System76 plus whatever other compatible Clevos there are or maybe a Framework, which I guess is fine since I do own multiple ThinkPads.
Still, really weird decision.
They’re not actually getting rid of the XPS line, they’re just changing the naming convention.
Any of the new Dell models with ‘Premium’ in the name are going to be the same as the Dell XPS line.
Asus ROG series to MSI seems interesting this CES, personally don’t see much problem with compatibility through Pop!_OS
Why the fuck did it even take them that long? Alienware acquisition was in 2006.
But which of these new models will have AI?!
replacing them with three main product lines: Dell (yes, just Dell), Dell Pro, and Dell Pro Max.
PC/Android companies not trying to blatantly rip off Apple challenge: Impossible
Calling a product the same as your brand is like calling a movie “The”. Good luck finding it online.
The latest XPS laptops really seem like they wanted to copy MacBook Pros from a few years ago with the touch function keys and the barren I/O.
I never really understood the purpose of the XPS line anyway. If you want performance, buy a Precision; if you want a light robust laptop with decent I/O, get a Latitude; if you want a MacBook, get a MacBook.
With that being said the new naming scheme feels like a joke. What’s wrong with recognisable model names?
I never really understood the purpose of the XPS line anyway. I
IMHO
Software development and Media work that can benefit from normal consumer video acceleration. They are a lot cheaper than the Precision line and for non-cad/AI tasks and generally outpreform them. The XPS cases are more durable than the latitude and they come with better options for processors and video cards.
From a business standpoint, they were the best option if you needed a normal video accelerator.
The XPS cases are more durable than the latitude
Eh… Maybe? I worked plenty with Latitudes but never even used a XPS, but Latitudes aren’t bad build-wise. There are entry-level Precisions without dedicated graphics, and at least here in Germany they seem to be cheaper than comparable XPS-Laptops.
I’ve issued about 300 XPS, 50-60 macbooks, ~12 latitudes, and 10 lenovo t-series over the past decade. We’ve now deployed a handful of Legions, but they’ve only been out several months. I had a fan failure, but it had a 10" hair wrapped around the stator.
In all that time, no XPS/Mac hinge wear failures. Not even a little wiggle. You literally have to mechanically crush them before the hinges show any sign of failure. (a few of them did get crushed)
3 latitude screens cracked. Most started to have hinge play after a couple of years. They’re not bad laptops, but the all-metal chassis of the XPS/Macs hold up a lot better from normal every day carry mispaps.
If you don’t need dedicated graphics cards or metal chassis, you can get away with a lot of brands. Precision has never really impressed me.
I never really understood the purpose of the XPS line anyway.
The issue here is that you are comparing it to their business lineup, while it was a consumer product.
Dell XPS (“Extreme Performance System”) is a line of consumer-oriented laptop and desktop computers manufactured by Dell since 1993.
My understanding is that it was their premium consumer line sitting above the more entry level Inspiron line.
I know that the XPS is meant to be a prosumer product but I think the comparison is fair either way, mostly because you can actually buy both as a consumer. Dell doesn’t lock you out from buying a Latitude if you’re not an enterprise customer.
Latitudes aren’t sold at big box stores, that’s about the only difference the target audience makes to the general consumer.
I guess it streamlines the naming a little bit, but it sounds like the mapping of the hardware to the names is still a mess. I’ve used XPS laptops for years, but had already decided my next would be a Framework. This just reinforces that decision.
Weird, isn’t that the only Dell brand people view as worth having?
I have a 2018 XPS 15. I really like the machine but have also had more problems than any other laptop I’ve owned. The chassis fell apart spontaneously because an internal screw mount snapped. 1 month repair. Had to redo the CPU thermal paste to resolve overheating issues. Had driver issues with audio coming back from sleep that took me a year to figure out. Had to turn off Thunderbolt to get USB-C back functioning. Memory card reader keeps unmounting itself. Doesn’t have TPU, so I had to jump through hoops to get W11, which I need for some work stuff. Just a lot of drama. The screen is still wonderful to this day, and it has a nice keyboard, weight, and performance with 32 gb ram and faster SSD, but I don’t think I’ll get a new Dell. If I’m going to spend so much time tinkering with the laptop, I’d rather have a Framework that’s fully designed for tinkering
As an IT guy, recent (past five years) XPS laptops we gave to execs were pretty bad. Smaller, yes, but I found the Latitudes were better in terms of build quality. It is a small sample size though as most execs preferred MacBooks.
Latitude is superior to the XPS line for business.
And man did they have a bad run of XPS’s there for a while with their batteries swelling up.
I worked in IT and those latitudes were no exception in my experience. Earlier models were good but we had to replace so many e7000 series batteries bulging out the bottom.
They should replace the XPS name with the Longitude. And then the Altitude.
Ha!
Latitude 7490 had a string of bad batteries too. Our XPS units kept having things disconnect internally (even after a motherboard swap with warranty). The latitude 7420 onwards have been super solid!
Imo this kind of shows the basic problem with the xps line. As I understand it it was basically the premium consumer line, not something meant for business use. Meaning it had the nice specs on paper, but not the durability you’d need in a setting with extensive use and where downtime means serious money. But as you demonstrate this distinction was too blurry.
Used to be a field repair tech for several oems. The XPS usually suffered hinge issues. They decided it was a good idea to use press fitted standoffs in plastic to anchor the screen hinges…and the plastic is not very thick.
I believe the precision series kind of took over. They are high-end models but not really built for gaming. At this point, the XPS wasn’t built for gaming either, so I guess having 2 high-end lines just didn’t make sense?
Edit: I should have read the article first! I guess all the names are going away. I don’t care for the new names either, but both were pretty bad. The only difference is we got used to what it is now despite how little sense it made.
the top level names are fine I guess, but all the sub tier names are too much.
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Some companies prefer Dell as an American held company; for security reasons. Dell’s Precision line supports high-end needs such as 3d modeling, theoretical testing for real world applications, statistical analysis of large datasets, etc.
That is where Dell fits. And yes, they have consumer models. I don’t care for the latter.
I have a precision and an XPS,
Chassis is the same, keyboard, touch screen, pad are the same. Processor, disk, Wi-Fi and memory options are the same. Warranty and on premises technician same.
Prices are not the same, and sometimes precision has more GPU options. And I think a 17 inch screen, but these are a different line under the same brand name.
But one has official Linux support and the other doesn’t. But since all hardware is the same, surprise, it just works.
We’ve been flirting with Lenovo legion. In my business we need strong video cards. Shipping white boxes and monitors to people is a real issue with work from home.
We were solely running XPS for years.
The legion aren’t bad, The worst of it is the power brick is a barrel connector. No running off of USB power delivery.
One of the units had a failed fan. I tore it apart and found the part number, I was actually pretty pissed off because you couldn’t buy just the fan you had to buy the whole heat distribution block with both fans and the heat pipes and everything. But then I found the part was only about 50 bucks. Dell wouldn’t even sell me parts without me being certified. So I bought the Lenovo heat block and it showed up with pre-compounded processor, GPU, and VRM pads. It was super impressive and for 50 bucks honestly it was a steal.
I own a Lenovo legion and the main issue is that it sucks on battery, it’s heavy, and the power brick is huge and expensive (I think close to 300€). Other than that it’s a beast. But if you have legions for business, you’ll struggle in meetings were people don’t want to bother with power cables and supplies.
Good point!
We’re mostly wfh, If we still had sufficient physical meetings, It wouldn’t break the bank to stuff a few bricks in every room.
The battery life is also significantly better if you’re doing normal meeting stuff.
Pretty happy with the G series, but only because the XPS series for replaced by it in terms of bang for buck. And honestly, the G series we got are pretty good.
The newest generation of xps i shit anyways, good riddance.
i was really happy with my 2019ish xps. But the 2024 one is hot garbage. not just that it arrived with the keyboard not working and Dell taking 3 months to replace it. There’s a total of 2 usb-c ports on it. That’s all the connectors, yes. No, no headphone jack either. And one of those two is taken up with charging, so i’m left with one port if i dont use a dockingstation.
the whole function bar is touch now. you need to hit it 3 times for it to react, who needs Esc anyways. Unless you want to type in the number row, then the function row will pick up random key presses sometimes.
Copilot key no one asked for. Power button is just an unlabelled piece of plastic that looks like filler, not a button. Keyboard sucks in general, too little space between keys, you’re bound to mistype.
linux support is ok, though webcam doesn’t work in firefox, hibernate doesn’t work, every few weeks it’ll just freeze. But otherwise acceptable.
definitely my last dell, i really hate it.
[Edit] Oh and I forgot the best part, when the dell repairman finally repaired it after 3 months, he said “oh a new XPS? Yeah, those suck, every customer hates them especially for software development”
I bought a Precision 5480. Looks like an xps but better. Was so good I bought the 5490 for work a few months later. Would recommend.
Is the precision decent for gaming?
I have a precision 3571 and it’s pretty solid, I’ve been using it as my main gaming computer because it’s better than my old PC, it does have a few drawbacks tho.
Pros:- dedicated Ethernet, HDMI, headphone, and 2 USB ports as well as a second USB-c port besides the charging one that can be converted to other things with a dongle - I usually run it with external keyboard, mouse and monitor
- decent battery, can do a few hours of light gaming on just the battery or a full day of just browser
Cons:
- fan intake doesn’t have enough space when sitting on a flat surface and will overheat easily, so I have to elevate it with something to increase the gap of hang it over the side of my desk. This does solve most overheating problems though.
- for some reason helldivers runs way worse than it has any right to, my theory is that their game engine just really doesn’t work with the weird laptop GPU, an RTX A1000
Ah thank you for the insight on thermal management and on the GPU… Will keep an eye on those points
RTX A1000 is a workstation Card, there’s desktop cards with that branding as well. Nvidia has laptop versions of the gaming card, but the Dell business focused ranges are more marketed for ‘mobile workstation’ type stuff, so they get the workstation cards.
Yea that sounds right. It works quite well for most things, just specifically helldivers and/or it’s anticheat absolutely hates it. On lowest settings I get like 30-40fps depending on how much I upscale with freezes every 10 seconds lasting .5-1 seconds. Simply unplayable, so I’ve gone back to using my 1080ti in my pc
Would recommend to not recommend Dell to future buyers, it’s not Apple vs Samsung like in the smartphone options of US.
That’s a very weird take. I didn’t blanket recommend Dell, but a specific model.
Fr, Especially when they Maintain DKMS(Not a Device ik but used by most Distros).
I mean… Dell Pro Max ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I remember the XPS Was “Ubuntu Certified” thats what i think when i first see the Laptop.
Prepared to be heartbroken ~
what the fuck?
why kill your best brand?
ohhh…because you outsourced your entire product development teams to “offshore units” and haven’t innovated since 2015.
Sounds eerily similar to Intel although they’re trying good with the GPU side of things.
What Intel makes up for in GPU, they loose in CPU.
What AMD makes up for in CPU, they loose in GPU.Now we need Nvidia to see whether it will be a full blown flop or full-on dominatiom.
At that point (with Nvidia) you’d only need a CPU, RAM and a MB to make a nearly all Nvidia PC.
An Nvidia case exists already, GPU, networking (NIC, Switch and cabling)Nvidia would likely prefer to sell a whole package as Apple.
I’d like people to actually read the article before commenting. They are renaming their laptops. They’ll continue producing what would’ve been XPS.
“Dude, you’re getting a Dell Max Pro Premium” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it…
But will name them Max Pro, killing the XPS brand. You know, like the title says
But many commenters think they will just stop producing these laptops. You know, like my comment explains.
