When I first started this show I found it to be a really awkward mix of comedy and seriousness. It had some jokes thrown it at the most inopportune times as some kind of comic relief from a really serious situation. Perhaps the first half of the first season was actually a bit rough or maybe the show just grew on me, but by season 2 I found myself loving this show.
To me it seems as every bit as comfy, intellectually interesting and even funny as some classic Star Treks while still clearly being its own thing. I wish more comfy space shows like this would get made.
What are your thoughts on The Orville? Also I miss Alara.
It was/is the best modern “star trek” thats coming out. Loved that you could see all the writers and seth were just huge trekies. The moral dilemma’s are almost always good. And the mostly episodic episodes are a huge bonus.
I would agree with you, until Star Trek Strange New Worlds. That show is fantastic.
Along with Lower Decks as well. The crossover to Strange New Worlds was great.
Lower Decks is fantastic, but it’s almost its own thing while still being a love letter to earlier Treks. It is obviously aimed at a different demographic while still being one of the best modern Treks. That crossover episode was almost all fan service, but there is nothing wrong with that every once and a while. It was a very fun episode. The end where the SNW cast was animated had me laughing, it was very well done.
Ive yet to watch it but ive heard good things.
I was in the same boat as you until recently. I was burned so bad from Discovery and Picard I just couldn’t go through it again. I heard all the good things, but still I just couldn’t get around to it. I’m so glad I finally did. I know there is some recency bias but I think I would go so far as to say Captain Pike is my favorite Captain now…
Damn it’s like you know me LMAO. I swear I will check it out soon.
I bet it was common in the Trek community. I guess the positive side is you have two seasons to be able to binge when you finally get around to it.
Renewed for Season 3!
It’s so good I didn’t even consider that not being a possibility. Glad to hear it though.
I find it to be very much the opposite, but infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
"oh yeah? Well, I’m gonna make my own Star Trek, with black jack and hookers. "
- Seth McFarlane
Star Trek Producer: “This guy is trying to out-startreck us” proceeds to make Strange New Worlds to retaliate
I’m pretty sure this is exactly what happened.
And you will not see me complaining. SNW is the best Trek of recent times.
I’d still say Orville hits the mark closer, in many ways. SNW follows some of TOS’ style, but it still doesn’t always quite have that Gene Roddenberry feel to the characters. Orville does this better while its style is more like TNG - which perhaps isn’t surprising given how much Seth MacFarlane has worked with Patrick Stewart in recent years.
Frankly I want more seasaons of both.
Picard season 3 was pretty great too. I skipped season 2 as I hated season 1. Apparently season 3 just ignores the events of 2 completely because it was that bad.
It was shit wasn’t it, I heard season 2 was worse. I wanted to like it so much. What changed to make season 3 good? I’d love that to be true.
I don’t want to set your expectations too high, because it’s far from perfect, but I thought Picard S3 was basically the good TNG movie that we never received. It was great to see so many of the TNG crew back on screen, and probably for the last time together since they’re all in their 70s. The story was mostly good and there were some real high points.
I will definitely watch it then, thanks.
A 10 hour movie 🙄
So annoying the way all these shows are just stretched out into series when they can and should be a movie. And vice versa too, movies are all 3+ hours now I feel like, even friggin Indiana Jones was 2.5 hours, if you got that much to say just make it a miniseries or something jeez.
Now if you’ll excuse me I got some clouds to yell at.
I never laughed so much in a Star Trek episode as I did at last Thursday’s episode. That was absolutely not expected lol.
I still haven’t watched it. I think I might be done with Trek. There’s just been too much damage in the last decade with those godawful jj abrams movies, discovery, picard, blech. It’s clear to me the franchise has moved in a different direction and we’ll always have tng and ds9, but I just can’t follow it anymore.
SNW went completely off the rails and became a CW science fiction show. It is not Star Trek and is so cringe worthy, it’s painful to watch.
Every other episode is amazing then cringe, it keeps things light.
I haven’t seen any of season 2 yet, and while I agree that a few of the episodes in the first season are a bit off-target on the science fiction aspects, I think they are overall quite a bit better than the first season of TNG. I’m more than willing to give it, say, 40-60 episodes to really find itself and get into the meat of the story they want to tell with it.
I loved it. I thought the actors did a great job with some of the more sensitive content. It was pretty generic in general, but I didn’t mind that. I like shows that don’t take themselves too seriously.
Better Star Trek than actual Star Trek.
Modern Star Trek, right?
EDIT By “modern Star Trek” I mean every show from Discovery to Strange New Worlds.
Ahhhhh Lower Decks came out between those two shows release dates and it’s a great show.
Yes I’ll die on that hill.
I just rewatched it’s namesake episode of TNG… it’s dark.
Yup, you got it. Fucking nutrek. That shit tier writing belongs in star wars, not star trek.
I really liked it.
The early seasons were less serious than later ones. But overall, it did well with serious social issues and addresses some very relevant topics.
The storyline with Topah was absolutely amazing. At every step, each character was portrayed well, and respectfully. It’s rare that there is a story like that that still has conflict without having a clear villain.
The time travel episode with Gordon was also especially brutal with some great performances from everyone on screen.
There were a few misses. I found the Isaac / Doctor relationship… forced, even if it did bring us the best line in decades (“As I am incapable of stuttering, I must conclude that you heard me.”). I also don’t think I’m alone with disliking the Charlie character in season 3.
I loved how Klyden grew through that story line, realizing what his prejudice was costing him and growing!
The Klyden storyline has so many nuances to it. It’s not just that Klyden is a bigot. “He” was also re-gendered so he knows what Topa is going through and feeling far better than anyone else. A big part of his intransigence comes from a place of, “If I had to deal with this trauma, so should everyone else.” It helps explain his extreme position without letting him off the hook and I really liked that.
For sure. I’m calling him “he”, because thats what he appears to identify with.
Hes undeniably a bigiot at the beginning, but i think a lot of that comes from… a gamblers fallacy, worrying what hes already invested in his identity, and knowing he might have been wrong, and it reaches a crescendo, before Klyden is forced to realize hes made the wrong decision, and rejoins his husband and daughter.
so good.
I think it’s deeper than that. Klyden exists to represent Moclan society as a whole. He is the stand-in for their traditions, world, history, and culture.
We, the audience, are presented at the onset with a society that is male-only. The ship’s crew, along with us, are sort of hand-waved away when asking questions about how things work in the bedroom, but on the whole, no one seems to have a problem with their culture. In fact, we even see this male-only species reproduce successfully before we learn that there are the potential for female infants.
In Moclan society, being born female is an aberration. It’s not a biological necessity, and, for whatever reason, the Moclan culture views “being female” as a birth defect, one that can be easily corrected. It’s sort of how, today, we view children born with a clef palette. There’s no good reason to keep it around, and lots of reasons to repair it as soon as possible. Klyden represents this mindset and viewpoint perfectly.
Imagine someone fighting tooth-and-nail to not repair a cleft palette, or some other easily-fixable birth defect. Imagine them standing up in court and declaring that this obvious flaw is something that no one has the right to fix. Klyden is, from his own experience, outraged, and furious. Put yourself in his shoes, and his actions have nothing to do with bigotry, or hate. He’s not angry at his child for being female, or at his husband for supporting her decision to become female. He’s mad at the world because his entire world-view is challenged by his family.
In fact, he sees his culture, history, society, and even legal system saying that he is right, that the child should be male, and then he sees his husband and child, serving on a Union starship, talking nonsense about a “choice.” That line where he says he wishes she’d never been born wasn’t anger at her. It was anger that he is being forced to choose, and no matter which thing he chooses, he will loose a huge part of himself – either his family, or his history.
And if he chooses his family, he has to confront the fact that what was done to him was just as wrong as what he did to his daughter.
Few people, even space aliens, have the emotional maturity to handle that kind of revelation in the moment without doing something regrettable.
But fuck, this kind of novel is why I love this show so much. When was the last time you had a long talk about that time Riker killed all his clones?
Well put!
Imagine someone fighting tooth-and-nail to not repair a cleft palette, or some other easily-fixable birth defect. Imagine them standing up in court and declaring that this obvious flaw is something that no one has the right to fix.
I think this comparison doesn’t really work. In this analogy, Topa would be going to the doctor and saying, “For some reason, my lip feels wrong to me. I can’t put my finger on it but I feel like I have the wrong lip. Can you help me?”
It’s a bit of a different dynamic when the person who was ‘fixed’ is telling you over and over again that they don’t feel fixed; Rather they feel broken and don’t know why.
The season 3 episode, perhaps, but remember, there was an entire episode when Topa was born in season 1. It was like, episode 3 or 4 or something early in the show, where the doctor refused to perform the surgery, and they went all the way back to Moclan. It’s where we first meet that Dolly Parton female Moclan lady whose name I can’t remember at the moment. This is the incident I was referencing here.
I agree on the doctor/Isaac arc (some spoilers), I thought it was all absolutely ridiculous. Isaac is only there to gather data about humanity and characterised as unfeeling and non-emotional. Then the doc pulls a fit about how he doesn’t have feelings for her and everyone on the ship is behind her, ostrasising Isaac. It felt like there was no logic at all to the situation and everyone had gone bananas. The Isaac breakup scene was hands down my favourite in the show.
I think they screwed up the ending of the Gordon episode. If they’d cut from the captain and the team walking out of the door to Gordon being back on the ship packing away the phone and other things, it would have left it more to the viewers to decide if the decision was right or wrong.
Maybe.
On the flip side, the way it ended worked as a sort of “what if?” story about what Gordon is capable of.
Maybe plans for some later season involve Gordon turning on Mercer for similar reasons, again?
I don’t know. Given what was taken from him, and how grateful he was that it was done, I think they took that option away.
Best part of season three is Charlie’s death. Felt almost forced in a way, but not in a good way. Like Charlie is an ensign but is on the bridge because she’s really smart at 4d maneuvering or something, and they bring her everywhere. Definitely great when she finally went.
The Gordon/Time travel episode was brutal. It’s the episode I keep referring to when attempting to get my girlfriend to suspend her dislike of Seth McFarlane enough to give the show a shot. I will be very disappointed if there isn’t a 4th episode.
All I could think with how forced Charly was as a character was like is this a producers wife or girlfriend or something? I never looked into it, but I’ve never seen a show introduce a new character and focus on them so hard, even to the detriment of OG cast members, before. Like they pivoted to the Charly show. Some of the plots were good like her prejudice towards Isaac’s race but like why did she get introduced and become the main character in one season? Lol
I expected the Orville to be a funny homage to Star Trek. For a short time it was just that. Actually a randy one with too much toilet humor. But then suddenly they became serious SciFi. Which I consider a bold move and mostly but not utterly a successful one. And in hindsight, it would have been hard to deliver good SciFi-Humor for more than one Season except if they went the Futurama-Path.
The part of the funny homage to Star Trek nowadays has been taken by Lower Decks. Humorwise it beats everything Orville had ever offered.
Orville is good. Not great but worth watching. They had some AMAZING episodes with depth and ideas among the best ST-Episodes. But they also had a lot of mediocre episodes. Still Better than ST-Discovery for sure. Even surpassing ST-Picard. Which is something Seth can be proud of.
Orville started when there was no Startrek and no serious Soap-SiFi at all (The Expanse is something different).
For me it is “Startrek when Startrek wasn’t” and basically revived the Franchise it wanted to make fun of.
I like it.
That actually sounds appealing when you describe it like that. I tried to watch it when it came out but it never delivered on the “funny”. It was just Star Trek but a little off.
Maybe I’ll try again or at least get past the first few episodes
Excellent review
I literally shed tears while watching the first episode because I didn’t realize how badly I needed new star trek that doesn’t suck. I just hit me right where I needed it to scratch that itch, and I was so overwhelmed. Also it made me hate even more what “real” trek has become. Huge fan, I didn’t realize season 3 is already on, gotta check it out.
The one with the porn virus on their holodeck was fantastic. But yeah, you sum it up very nice.
It felt way more like Star Trek than the Star Trek being made at the time (primarily Discovery). Though I do like Strange New Worlds and think it’s more in the right direction, The Orville still feels way more like TNG-era Trek.
Now we just need a Galaxy Quest / Orville crossover to really confuse everyone.
Always thought the whole parody aspect was just a means to get funding to just make a regular star trek series in disguise. If someone would just give the man money for exactly that we would have an awesome star trek series.
what modern star trek should be
It was the best Trek we had in ages. Held me over until we got SNW and Lower Deck.
I really hope we get another season because they REALLY hit their stride last season.
It was the best Trek we had in ages. Held me over until we got SNW and Lower Deck.
Ditto. A real return to form, even if that form involved a lot of Space Wizards and other silly bullshit.
I honestly think the whole diplomatic triangle between the Planetary Union, the Krill/Moclan, and the Kaylon played out better than anything TNG managed. The Orville is easily on par with DS9 as one of the best sci-fi dramas produced to date.
Yeah, the Kaylon stuff with Isaac caught me off guard and blew me away.
I appreciate that they gave our characters more personal stakes in Teleya’s relationship with Ed and Isaac’s relationship with Claire.
Pundits say there won’t be another season because he’s focusing on the Ted series. It’s supposedly doing well so no time for Orville
Thanks for the info, but that’s incredibly disappointing. Ted is probably my least favorite thing Seth has ever done…
The Orville is my favorite Star Trek franchise. It’s canon - you can’t deny it. The Orville revived the Star Trek Franchise and gave it a pulse. It’s like blockchain. You can say it doesn’t belong, but it will always be there and nothing can change that. It has great attention to detail and decent story writing with that original “there’s a moral in this episode” that endeared ST in our hearts, something the newer ST franchises lack.
And Galaxy Quest is the best Star Trek movie since the Undiscovered Country.
I’m not sure how to answer without getting roasted, but including GQ in canon does complete the Star Trek good-then-bad movie pattern.
It’s the best Star Trek show since Next Generation.
Kidding. I actually liked DS9 and Voyager
It’s on par though.
Yeah. The Orville absolutely deserves to stand shoulder to shoulder with a typical season of licensed Star Trek.
And that’s a pretty big deal, because aside from the show we won’t mention right now*, most Star Trek is pretty great.
*I’m just trying to start an argument between DS9, Enterprise and Discovery fans. Sorry.
This was basically the way I would describe the show.
I loved it because it had all the eye candy and high concept stuff I’m looking for but they didn’t take themselves too seriously.
I didn’t mind the acting or the incongruent personality quirks. I actually found most of it pretty endearing in a little relaxing. He probably should have broken the fourth wall a little more often.
Overtime the formula got a little too predictable. With the exception of an episode here and there are the story arcs were getting tired.
I enjoyed watching it, I wouldn’t mind seeing more, but I have no urge whatsoever to go back and do a rewatch.
Agree on all counts, definitely regarding the story arcs too.
I was initially turned off from it too because of the awkward comedy early on. But I have it another go and ended up enjoying it as an extension of Star Trek.
The vibe I get is he wanted to make a Star Trek show, but since he’s that comedy guy he probably got it greenlit as a comedy and then just slowly morphed into just Star Trek while the producers weren’t looking. I’m basing this on nothing, it’s just a funny head cannon.
It’s not a stretch to say it’s the only thing of this era that picks up the legacy of TNG trek. Lower decks is fun but too short to really do what full episodes could and while Strange New Worlds is ok… it still doesn’t feel in the spirit that I’m looking for.
The vibe I get is he wanted to make a Star Trek show, but since he’s that comedy guy he probably got it greenlit as a comedy and then just slowly morphed into just Star Trek while the producers weren’t looking.
This is actual reality, so you nailed it. Seth approached Paramount with a pitch for a nostalgic reboot of the TNG era, they said no, so he went to Fox who he had a great relationship with due to Family Guy and created The Orville.
Whether the producers were unaware of the slow transition to actual speculative fiction or not is unclear for the first few seasons. I think the final season shows that it was overt, however, since after changing networks the whole tone, production quality, and even the actual time length of the episodes all changed.
A “head cannon” is a big gun on your head.
It seems like a lot of modern star trek doesn’t appeal to OG trekkies, but as someone who didn’t watch anything pre-Discovery, I think most of it is pretty great compared to a vast portion of current TV.
Fair enough. It’s hard to watch them objectively without thinking about what we’re missing. What confuses me though is they new shows lean HEAVILY on nostalgia, suggesting that they’d be trying to get the audience that has nostalgia for it, but the rest of what makes up the shows isn’t anything like what made people originally enjoy Star Trek.
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Try watching an episode in the second or third series. I’m not keen on Seth either but seems like the “Sethisms” toned down as the show progressed
And what happens when you’re not keen on Seth or being preached at by someone who doesn’t actually get the social arguments even if his heart seems to be in the right place?
I get the feeling that he was forced to include Family Guy style jokes in the first series and was allowed to ease up after it was clear that they weren’t working.
spoiler
With the exception of that early episode explaining humour to the android character and the engineer wakes up with his leg cut off. That was pretty funny.
That episode is still one of the most funny things ever and I will die on this hill
Man I totally forgot about that, that was fucking amazing! Love that show
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That take makes me think you haven’t watched much of the show
The Orville is the best science fiction show featuring complex moral questions of the last decade. And Seth McFarlane isn’t as prominent in the show as early episodes showed.
It’s much more focused on crew than other shows, specially Isaac, Bortus, Kelly and Claire. No surprise since they are better actors than Seth. I like Seth Krill episodes though.
The latest season of Orville has so much grey area and conflict in morals it makes TNG look pure black and white with no moral grey areas at all.
It’s really well done.
I had the exact same concern, before I watched The Orville.
After watching the first couple of seasons, I think The Orville actually does a pretty good job honoring Star Trek’s tradition of raising difficult questions and calling for more empathy in the world.
You clearly haven’t watched it at all lol.
