The issue with institutionalization (besides SCOTUS ruling it violates the ADA in 1999’s Olmstead v LC, rendering it illegal for anyone with a disability), is that it’s expensive. That’s why Reagan defunded them all.
To be clear, deinstutionalization was a good idea, but unlike JFK’s push, Reagan pushed for it without replacing institutions with well-funded community services. Which would be cheaper than institutions, most of which sit unoccupied and decaying, so there’s also the question of where Trump wants to put these people.
This doesn’t get said enough. Getting rid of them was a legitimately good idea, the some of the abuses in those places was hair-raising. We just didn’t replace them with anything, so the mentally ill all just turned into homeless mentally ill, which just made more people miserable, which in turn probably contributes to more individual incidents of mental illness occuring.
Many also ended up in jails and prisons
And many more simply died. As it turns out, releasing the disabled onto the street, surprisingly, wasn’t a perfect option.
Canada did the same damn thing at the same damn time with the same damn repercussions because our PM followed Reagan around like a damn lapdog. 🤬
Getting rid of them was a SHIT idea what are u talking about?!?!
Exactly what I said. Needed to be done, just needed an improved plan instead. Choices were No Plan, A Bad Plan, and A Good Plan. Mental institutions were a bad plan. We got rid of them and went with no plan. We need a third possibility nobody tried–a good plan.
It comes down to the same issue with the police. When you look at the effort it would take to reform what was wrong, it would be nearly impossible. A better idea would be to toss out everything and start from scratch.
Just take a look at how mental institutions were in the last moments before they were closed: https://timeline.com/willowbrook-the-institution-that-shocked-a-nation-into-changing-its-laws-c847acb44e0d?gi=187e20cd91e2
https://www.thirteen.org/metrofocus/2016/01/the-story-that-revealed-willowbrooks-horrors/
Im in the disability field and honestly I feel like we need something and need it bad. Not institutions, at least not like they were, but I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see some people in the disability community respond positively to this with the hopes that its different this time, lord know the people who like him don’t believe his words at face value. I can also tell you thers definitely is a not insignificant amount of people in the community who have a neutral to faborable feeling on Trump.
The key here I think is that during the pandemic, even before mask mandates, we started seeing services get cut, orgs defunded, and staff reduced. So much of the disability community right now is relying on support staff and self directed program funding, which is essentially the disbursement of medicare and medicaid funding to one individual, not necessary with a medical background, to help the person with the disability with their day to day stuff and goals stated in their Individual Service Plan. The flexibility is great but its just one person at a time, they don’t even get a budget to do things typically.
A lot of people with disabilities are missing the structure of actual organizations that has the resources to do more than what a one on one support worker can, and someone on Trumps team is either smart enough to know that, or quite lucky.
Nice, I also used to work in the disability field (ID/A). And you’re right, although at least in my state we haven’t had cuts, more so just a lack of sufficient new funding.
I will say that I don’t think many in the disability will support this, but some do seem ignorant of the past and the old realities of institutionalization.
And yeah, self-directing is a double edged sword. I’ve seen it done well and I’ve seen it abused by families just to get some extra money, while not really sufficiently meeting the needs of their family member with disabilities. I also think it’s nearly inescapable in the future, given the staffing shortages we already see in direct care and the aging boomer population that will require even more staffing.
Self directed seems to be the answer to budget problems, but there should be pooled resources that all support staff can tap into if we want to even keep the same level of service we had pre pandemic, and honestly the disability community still deserves more than that bar. Hopefully we get there.
question of where Trump wants to put these people.
Decriminalize/legalize all drugs, transfer all for-profit prisons back to the government and/or not for profit charities, shuffle prisoners around to free up prisons to be converted to mental healthcare and drug rehabilitation facilities, and fund it with a taxed and regulated drug market.
Not that he thinks far enough to come up with that.
I suddenly can’t see the comment chain where we were having a conversation. Did you delete your comments as after I posted the law that you said didn’t exist?
No? I still see my comments
Weird. I can’t access that comment chain anymore, but I can see the comments in our history. Maybe it’s a Sync issue (the platform I’m using)
It’s because Lemmy is broken-ass piece of shit garbage. Comments I wrote and deleted still show up for other people, too.
Feel free to leave
😆
A typical and predictable response from someone selfish and immature enough to knowingly do nothing about serious and exploitable bugs on a platform they choose to be wholly dependent on for online discourse. And they expect people to blindly go along with it simply because they did.
If we were on a spaceship, and I was telling you about serious air leaks in the hull, would you look at me and tell me to my face “Feel free to leave” as you suffocate? Or would you go patch the holes?
What a massive edit you’ve made to your comment.
Your metaphor is really shitty though. Feel free to leave :)
Memmy master race
Doesn’t seem to be available for Android
Republicans made a deal with JFK to phase out mental health hospitals and replace them with community based facilities that had a more home like atmosphere.
They did the gutting part.
Then JFK was assassinated.
Republicans decided that they didn’t have to do any more after that, and LBJ used most of his political capital to get the voting rights act passed.
That’s why our mental health system is so broken.
If republicans wanted to fix the system, they could start with funding the VA. Many of our troops wind up with mental health conditions due to their time in the service.
The VA needs some serious reform in how they operate. A major problem with staffing there is just plain burn out and then 6 months to hire a replacement. The entire organization is understaffed and over worked.
Driving the news: “When I am back in the White House, we will use every tool, lever, and authority to get the homeless off our streets,” Trump said in a video posted on his campaign site in August, saying that he’ll work with states to ban urban camping.
- Trump said his administration would offer treatment and other resources for people who are “just temporarily down on their luck” or have less severe mental health issues.
- “And for those who are severely mentally ill and deeply disturbed, we will bring them back to mental institutions, where they belong,” he said, “with the goal of reintegrating them back into society once they are well enough to manage.”
So “every tool, lever, and authority” except building shelters and affordable housing. Because, of course, the homeless themselves are the problem that needs to be fixed, not a symptom of a society that needs to be fixed.
A Democrat proposes a way to help the mentally ill: HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR IT?
A Republican proposes a more expensive way to punish the mentally ill: NOW THIS IS GOOD POLICY
They flat out don’t understand how federal laws are enforced. Most of the shitty anti-welfare or anti-handout “ideas” they have would not save money. I always ask these chucklefucks if they would still support those ideas if they cost more than they saved. They can never answer that question.
Yesterday, browsing wikipedia, stumbled on articles that talked about this very thing, on how Russia took advantage of mental health systems. They started to classify nonconforming, rebels as mentally ill. A frequently used diagnosis was sluggish schizophrenia. Anyone who was socially awkward, thought differently got this diagnosis. Cuz if someone is questioning our government, they must be sick in the head
They used this heavily for decades to discredit political rivals, forcible confinement, lock them away, work camps. Think gulag archipelago.
Can you link those here ?
Interesting, thanks
I agree that we should take care of our mentally disabled instead of letting them roam the streets.
I do not think that’s what cheetoman would do with those institutions.
I’m British and we have our fair share of crazy homeless people. However, I was absolutely shocked when I visited San Francisco at the levels of crazy I saw wandering the streets. It was unbelievable and would just straight up not happen in the UK, these people would be in a hospital or care home.
This is how it begins. Trump and his idiot sidekick fascist moron Mike Johnson will try to do a 1939 round 2 against all the gays, transgenders, stoners and while they’re at it the jews again because fuck people.
As an American Jew, I think one of the big reasons why the right is so pro-Israel is because it gives them a place to ship people like me to. They will ignore that I was born in the US, have never been to Israel, have no plans to go there, and that my ancestors didn’t even come from there. (Eventually, if you go far enough back, they might, but my attempts to trace my ancestry hit a dead end in Poland.)
The right love that they could just round up all the Jews in America, stick them on a plane, and dump us in Israel to “dispose” of us.
Duh! Why u think Israel isn’t in Europe?!?! No one wanted the Jews anywhere near them so they shoved them into Palestine.
They weren’t “shoved”, zionism was thought up and promoted by Jewish people. Widespread antisemitism in Europe was indeed a major reason for it, but still.
Fair. Imo they should have been given Germany instead.
He belongs in one, that’s for sure.
Holy fuck this is fantastic! Finally an AI use that I can get on board with, typos and all!
If you like typos, this one is for you.
That’s a bit ironic, given that he should be committed to one himself.
But, that’s SoCiaLiSM!
You really should have a solid financial plan in place if you want to become mentally ill in america. Its not up to my tax dollars to subsidize your choices!
we will bring them back to mental institutions, where they belong
As someone that struggles with mental issues, and has spent some time in a facility when I was at my worst, this line pisses me off to no end. Feels no different than what he would say about so-called criminals or immigrants. Wish he would go where he belongs.
A comprehensive mental health system would have both out-patient and in-patient treatment, just like with physical health. The problem is we’ve had both extremes - all institutionalization, and all out-patient.
Very true. The place I stayed in for a few days was good though and they had out and in-patient treatment. And they recommended doing in-patient treatment where you would go in for most of the day but could go home after, after I did my locked in in-patient. I was happy with their treatment, but yeah, very much exception to the rule.
Partial Hospitalization isn’t super rare. I wouldn’t call it an exception to the rule. Many chose not to pursue it, but programs are out there.
Ah good to know. I hadn’t seen it before, but that might just be saying more about locations I used to live. Thanks!
Partial Hospitalization exists.
For himself?
I’m sure he’d love to revive the tradition of putting “troublesome” women into them.
Yep, that was the first thing I thought of after reading the headline. I read ‘The woman who.would not be silenced’ and it left a big impression on me.
Why should he get to pick his prison? Just assign him to one and move along.
One of Ronald Reagan’s gifts to California was a homelessness problem. He closed down the state’s asylums and never built the community based netowrk that was supposed to care for the mentally ill. The homeless caused an increse in petty crimes, which meant you needed more police and jails.
It worked so well he took it national when he was elected President.
