The long fight to make Apple’s iMessage compatible with all devices has raged with little to show for it. But Google (de facto leader of the charge) and other mobile operators are now leveraging the European Union’s Digital Market Act (DMA), according to the Financial Times. The law, which goes into effect in 2024, requires that “gatekeepers” not favor their own systems or limit third parties from interoperating within them. Gatekeepers are any company that meets specific financial and usage qualifications, including Google’s parent company Alphabet, Apple, Samsung and others.
But nobody in Europe uses iMessage.
I presume apple users do occasionally…
I guess this is a way for google to force apple to open the protocol since they can’t just open it in the EU, so it affects the US too. But the EU don’t have to listen to google… if imessage is such a minor player they may just leave it alone.
We use it when WhatsApp has server problems every once in a while or for a round of GamePigeon.
Ironically, in Europe you’d be “missing out” on most group conversations if you’d insist on using iMessage, as most of your buddies probably have an Android phone with WhatsApp installed.
The EU won’t leave Apple alone, that’s the whole purpose of the Digital Markets Act (prevent “gatekeepers” from excluding other players).
The irony here is that Google is throwing stones when they have huge glass roofs. This law will certainly bite them back elsewhere, hopefully. We need strong laws to curb these modern day robber barons.
Not really.
For example, in Sweden, probably half as high of a percentage of people have iPhones as the US and yet everyone uses Facebook messenger and whatsapp, at least when I studied there 5 years ago.
I never understood why WhatsApp is so popular. I used it (a long time ago) and just don’t see it.
It’s the network effect. Everyone else uses it - so it is easier to just use it than to not use it.
Basically in a lot of Europe texting was or still is expensive and not unlimited and WhatsApp was a free alternative and Meta did not own it at the time.
So everyone was like well fuck texting and adopted apps like WhatsApp and then Meta bought WhatsApp. Now in these countries it’s the defacto standard whether you like it or not. Businesses, people, and even sometimes government uses it as the default way to text. It sucks.
Also WhatsApp had photos and shit. And no, MMS doesn’t count. I don’t even want to hear about MMS anymore.
MMS and UMTS videocalls were dead in the water the second mobile carriers tried to charge a truckload for that. They did this, they basically made Whatsapp the standard.
I wish the US could have been the same in developing on internet messaging. Instead, It’s virtually impossible to find a plan that doesn’t have unlimited SMS and therefore no one ever sees the antiqueness of SMS to be an issue.
I see pros and cons to it. I really do not like having WhatsApp be the default text platform. Seems like a huge conflict of interest.
One thing the EU is a clear winner on now is plan pricing. It’s insane how much cheaper cell service here than in the states.
We use Whatsapp a lot in Europe, but business fronts still communicate with phone and email. Meanwhile, in Indonesia, everything is on whatsapp! You book an hotel? whatsapp message. You need a taxi? whatsapp! you want to order in room service? send a whatsapp message, there’s not even a phone in the room. A tour guide will contact you directly on whatsapp, if you don’t have it installed, good luck.
Doesn’t it just use you phone number though? Like I could set it to be my default texting app, just like a ton of different texting apps.
Yes, why?
So it’s more that companies text you. You don’t need WhatsApp to send or receive those texts. So why do you need it installed or good luck? Is there some other functionality?
Here in the Netherlands a ton of businesses use WhatsApp. You see it listed as a primary contact method on stationary, signs, vehicles, advertisements, etc all the time here.
That’s fascinating! Love NL btw, amazing country!
Because it gave the possibility of free text and calling over the internet , that was a big deal for many developing countries and it is very simple to use. Like I heard some Apple fanboys said that iMessage comes already installed with the phone? And on my mind I am like : How hard is to download an app and just put your phone number you are up and running in less than 2 minutes.
Even in non developing countries. Texting has historically been expensive and limited in a lot of the EU. My plan is still limited to something like 150 texts a month and I’d have to pay extra to work around that, but even if I did it wouldn’t be worth the money because nobody uses text here.
You want to tell Europe is a developing country? 😂 /s
Lol no , It just that Europeans are not lazy as some Americans who can’t even take 2 minutes to install an app.
You just explained why Europeans have a lot more motivation to install it than Americans do, yet you immediately jump to laziness as an explanation for why Americans aren’t as eager to adopt an app they have little reason to care about.
Your attempt to criticize Americans is very…what’s the word…oh yeah, lazy.
Who did say that apple fanboys are only Americans? 🌚
Damn, -3 and I didn’t even forget “/s”, what have I done wrong xD
No other country offered unlimited texting back in the day.
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iMessage technically isn’t SMS. It just supports it as an additional protocol. On Android, Facebook Messenger
and Signalbehaves similarly (because android lets apps become the default SMS handler).Just FYI Signal no longer supports SMS. They decided it “leads to confusion” and a partially secure app is not good enough. Led me to stop donating to them.
No. But we have the same reliance now on WhatsApp as the US does with iMessage.
I’d love to see RCS become the norm so I can ditch WhatsApp.
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Ted Lasso? That TV series created by check notes Apple?
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It’s WhatsApp through and through.
The fuck is with all these comments? Since when are we siding with Apple and closed off communications standards around here?
Since Google is just trying to get people to use their closed off communication standard (they added a bunch of stuff to RCS and that’s what they want the eu to force Apple to use). And I don’t trust Google with anything anymore, not sure why you would. The killed by Google website is proof enough of that.
The EU isn’t going to swap one closed proprietary service for another. If iMessage is included under the DMA as a core platform service, it will require Apple to permit interoperability. I.e. the creation of open APIs. Google, and anyone else, can choose to build connectors into their own apps.
I love the fact that Lemmy users here don’t know shit about how these tech works and they will jump on Apple hate every chance they get. And your comment must raise Linux and open source etc or else it will be an instance downvote.
It’s a bit shocking to see actually. But Lemmy kind of surprised me from time to time.
Anyhow, it would be really nice to see iMessage work with RCS.
We’re not. Just calling out the hypocrisy of Google.
Since we know Apple is the lesser of 2 evils and Google is a crying baby
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This feels a bit like asking MS Teams to play nice with Google Meet, or demanding that Apple’s office suite (Pages, Numbers, etc.) deliver the exact same product when files are saved in an OpenOffice format. This doesn’t seem to be an issue with any other products…
Apple have designed their product to work well with their devices. The Messages app still functions with non-Apple devices. SMS messages can be sent and received to anyone. The fact that pictures and whatever come through like crap is more an issue with the SMS platform than it is with Apple’s app.
Ultimately, Google dislikes the fact that there is a “green bubble” stigma (for lack of a better word) on Apple devices that encourages those who care about such things to prefer Apple devices. Because Google doesn’t have their own widely used iMessage equivalent, they can’t turn around and make messages outside their platform appear as red bubbles or something, so they are attacking from this angle instead.
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
That’s hilarious
They’re not joking. They use iPhone.
It’s quite literally well documented that Apple doesn’t want to support RCS because it pressures people to get iPhones. SMS is an ancient garbage protocol, what Google is trying to do is get Apple to support SMSs 21st century replacement and RCS support will fix literally every issue iPhone users have texting Android users. Broken group chats, trash quality videos, ultra compressed images, no reactions or stickers, threaded chats etc etc
Yes but there is no green bubble stigma in Europe… We all use whatsapp and signal.
I mean, fuck, there’s no green bubble stigma in the US either. I have never once heard people complain about it in the real world
You’re lucky then, I hear people complain about it all the time
Exactly. It’s a complete non-issue in Europe.
Google are attempting to start this fight in Europe in hopes that they can push Apple to change in the US as well. The whole green bubble thing is US-only, but Google haven’t been even remotely successful in trying to force Apple to change, and Apple’s “remedy” to the issue is “Get an iPhone”.
SMS is like the minimum though, and not supporting all features that could be supported by the major ones somewhat counts as gatekeeping.
Legitimately can’t tell if you’re joking or not.
Oh, now you want Europe’s strong arm? Google? Now? Fuck off, you yankee!
EDIT: Also, we European literally don’t care. Everyone is using Whatsapp or Telegram. There’s no “Blue vs green bubble” war here in Europe, only America can get angry on such idiocy.
Let’s be clear - only a subset of Americans care about the bubbles. And it’s annoying to the rest of us too.
The iMessage approach is the obvious solution, Google had a competitor over 10 years ago and killed it. Signal took the same approach and killed SMS just this year.
It’s frustrating, because US has the particular problem of SMS being ubiquitous because it became zero-additional-cost for most people by about 2005. The same mindset that keeps people on SMS also creates the blue-bubble nonsense: ease of use and not having to think about it. Signal was making inroads on this, makes me wonder why they stopped supporting SMS.
I have friends who say “I don’t want to have to think about where to message someone”. Oh, ffs, do you struggle with calling their home/work/cell, or choosing to email or send a letter?
So yea, it’s not America vs the rest of the world, it’s us vs the complacent/unaware.
Wrapping an internet messaging service with a text messaging system was probably one of the worst things that Apple did.
When I had switched to Android, I was hoping I’d still be able to use iMessage from my iPad occasionally, But eventually I had to give up because whenever I sent an iMessage from my email, my family would just try responding from there as well, Even when I sent a SMS message afterwards.
I managed to convince my father to download WhatsApp (since he doesn’t want to use signal or telegram, and personally, I don’t really like signals lack of external features like no smartwatch app or assistant integration. And I don’t know why not Telegram), but the only other messaging platform my mom uses is Facebook Messenger so that kind of sucks that it’s my only option for communicating outside of SMS. Can’t really convince my sister to switch to something else (and she blocked me on discord for whatever reason, probably because she’s 16 and going through this huge phase right now and I tend to use my sona for almost all online accounts as opposed to my real name)
My family kept complaining that by using something else beyond SMS, requiring them to check yet another messaging app, I’d be complicating their lives too far. But I’m still continuing because there is absolutely no reason for me and my family to be using SMS anymore, and I personally would like to have things like typing indicators and higher quality media back
On a side note, why is Facebook Messenger so much worse than WhatsApp despite being owned by the same company?
They didn’t make WhatsApp, they bought it. And were smart enough to leave it mostly alone. They don’t even really need to outright spy on convos, just sucking in all the contacts, building shadow profiles and figuring out relations from who’s talking to whom is worth gold.
What is that username
Latin vora, from vorare ‘to eat or devour’. See “omnivore”, “carnivore”, “herbivore” etc.
Why, what did you think it means?
I know vore is a fictional sexual fetish where a person consumes an other person usually as food
It’s real life equivalent would be cannibalism excluding the swallowing whole part
I get that this is a silly issue that only a subset of Americans actually care about, but if you think that Google is doing this for any other reason other than that they don’t like how popular iMessage is and want it to end, you’re fooling yourself. Google hopes to eventually make more money when one barrier between an Android and iPhone is removed.
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Although, I get the argument and sure go ahead and do it.
I have to laugh at Google calling for the regulation of Apples monopoly but are happy to maintain their monopolies.
It’s be like Apple calling out Bowers & Wilkins for high prices.
Or Bezos calling for more piss breaks for Walmart staff.
Glass houses and stones.
Until Google supports RCS on Google voice, I can’t take their requests seriously.
That’s an interesting point. I have Google voice but I honestly don’t use it much. Are you a big Google voice user?
Yes. But it has “forgotten by Google” energy. It wouldn’t shock me if it joins the Google graveyard.
RCS is too little, too late. Its encryption is problematic, and people currently using it can tell you how inconsistent it is. It’s what you get when industry players want to control things.
Why build RCS when everyone could use an existing, extensible protocol like XMPP? Yes, XMPP isn’t perfect, but had the RCS consortium started there, then agreed to support specific features, we’d have a much better solution today.
iMessage works.
The messages app supports SMS. That means it already “interoperates” with common messaging apps and platforms.
SMS is the bare minimum. The only reason iPhone supports it is because it was supported before iMessage was a thing. It was also so it could still communicate with “dumb” phones.
SMS is an ancient garbage protocol, what Google is trying to do is get Apple to support SMSs 21st century replacement, RCS
But Apple doesn’t want that because RCS support will fix literally every issue iPhone users have texting Android users. Broken group chats, trash quality videos, ultra compressed images, no reactions or stickers, threaded chats etc etc
RCS as a standard isn’t a replacement. RCS as a base project is dead.
Specifically Googles implementation is a replacement, but then it’s the exact same situation we’re in now, just with Google instead of Apple.
Specifically Googles implementation is a replacement, but then it’s the exact same situation we’re in now, just with Google instead of Apple.
No, because I can dig up official documentation for googles implementation. Where’s Apples iMessage documentation?
RCS is a replacement for SMS, it was intended for carriers to implement it as is standard in the EU. In the US however, the carriers have infamously resisted calls to get off their ass and implement it. Even Google was calling on carriers to do it for years, they only came out with their Jibe platform because the carriers weren’t doing their jobs
Does documentation matter if it’s still a closed platform? Imo it doesn’t.
RCS requiring 3rd party servers makes it not a replacement for sms. SMS is a very well thought out protocol that works exactly as intended, it just doesn’t have the bandwidth required for modern media.
Google can call on carriers all they want. It’s still a proprietary google implementation which is no better than Apple. And I trust Apple a hell of a lot more than google (which still isn’t a lot).
Yes, because documentation as I’m referencing it is for accessing the API. You can’t access iMessages API (Well without serious reverse engineering effort) so therefore they have no documentation
RCS is a standard, Google has it’s flavor and Apple could just as easily have their own or any other flavor.
SMS is antiquated and should be used for nothing more than a fallback at best. It’s 30+ years old.
I still don’t see that as any different. Apple has a proprietary implementation, google has an proprietary implementation. You like google because they have documentation. Neither is an open platform, yet you seem to be pushing google like it’s the bastion of open communication.
RCS is not standard, will not be standard and should not be standard.
SMS works perfectly fine. So what if it’s 30 years old. It still works exactly as intended.
It doesn’t have to be open, just provide publicly accessible APIs so that apps can interconnect with it. Google provides this, Apple does not.
To be clear IDGAF about Google. I promote RCS and you can say it’s not a standard, but it is. It’s maintained by the GSM Association and they put out a universal profile that anyone can implement and extend just like Google did and Apple could easily do. They’re just extending an existing standard.
Even in the Google messages app I can change the RCS backend servers at any time, you don’t have to use Googles RCS implementation
Lame excuse from Apple , we have to push for more open communications. Just like email.
All I want is to be able to message people using discord through Signal. Or from Messages to Whatsapp. And just be able to send and receive decent quality videos between iMessage and non-imessage users.
It’s so annoying having to juggle so many different messaging apps just to talk to people.
Why can’t it be like email?
Try Beeper!
Links all those services into one client using Matrix for the backend.
Drop me a DM if you want a referral code (that goes for anyone interested!)
Federated messaging services… this is actually a really cool idea.
But I guess big companies prefer walled gardens because it makes more money.
Because each platform is for a different use-case. Discord sucks. It’s one of the worst UI/UX I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been using computers since the late 70’s…punched cards are only slightly worse.
I could understand that until I experienced discords new mobile UI and the countless competitors. Definitely discord is better than all the others
Did you use ventrilo, teamspeak, icq, irc, any 90s chatroom?
Ui/ux has been pretty good for me who did in comparison
Google and company can go fuck themselves on this one, and I’m usually the first one to bash on Apple for selling overpriced status symbols.
I’m frankly amazed at how much importance Google gives iMessage, when it’s not the number 1 messaging app anywhere in the world. Hell, even if you assume Apple halved its report of monthly active users in Europe, that’s 90 million people in Europe. Significant, but less than 25% of the total population of the EU
Outside USA and Canada, you’ll be hard pressed to find people who give a damn about iMessage, because most are using a different, cross compatible app anyway, like Whatsapp or Telegram, even across most European countries.
because iMessage is probably the number 1 reason for iphone purchase in USA
this will obviously help google gain market share in the us
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You can highly doubt all you want but go do some research on current consumer behavior after you are done doubting.
Why would you be against standardizing messaging over the net? How is that a bad thing?
- Because those aren’t internet messages, RCS is supposed to supersede SMS and MMS, which is how Google whatever (hangouts? talk? messages?) sends messages to iPhone numbers. Meanwhile, apple-apple communication via iMessage is done via internet
- Because the standard is mostly controlled by Google and Samsung, Apple’s biggest rivals in the mobile space
- Because Google has been completely anal about being easily spotted in iPhone conversations for quite a while. It is pretty obvious that this has nothing to do with using better standards. AFAIK, even phones that can use RCS have it turned off by default.
- Because anyone with an internet connection already has access to several widely used apps that do much more than RCS does
Because Google are trying to get regulators involved when it doesn’t really affect anyone?
Seems like a bad idea on principle
In my opinion, ALL nessaging apps should be compatible with each other. It should be like email, just different clients on the same protocol. I know it won’t happen anytime soon (if ever in my life), but I’d like that. And we should start somewhere. Maybe here.
SMS would basically be dead if Apple adopted RCS, that’s why it’s important. SMS needs to die.
Honest question, should sms die because it’s being a paid for service or for the insecurity or both or more?
It’ll probably always stay as a fallback, but because it’s an incredibly outdated protocol and lived far past it’s age.
Sms is a 20+y old standard. Could just be sending smoke messages, it would be equally secure and feature rich…
Because apparently you get very annoying workarounds from the incompatibility.
As much as I have been on the EU’s side on every case that they’ve had against Apple. This should be a giant red flag that Google is pushing this so hard.
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Good old companies wanting to exploit the law
Google is so fucking pathetic these days. They can’t out program them so they cry to the EU instead
