• @dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    TL;DR: Due to being smaller and lighter, electric bikes and mopeds require significantly less energy to move themselves around than an electric car. The article starts with a headline about “oil demand” but then spends much of the rest of its length harping on consumer monetary costs instead. I could have said that in a lot fewer words. Actually, I just did.

    Also, in SE Asia and other places where the primary mode of transport is a small motorbike, as it happens these small motorbikes actually pollute a lot for their displacement due to having basic uncomplicated engines, often not running very well, and lousy or absent emissions controls. ICE vehicles are also at their worst fuel consumption/distance traveled ratio when they’re idling or crawling around urban areas at low speed. Replacing these with electric versions just makes sense.

    Full disclosure: I own a gas guzzling truck, a fuel efficient car, seven motorcycles, and an electric bicycle. I use different tools for different jobs, as appropriate. If you’re looking for a magic bullet, you will probably need it in a few different calibers.

    • Tammo-Korsai
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      187 months ago

      Out of your seven motorcycles, which one is used for which purpose?

      • @dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
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        317 months ago

        I’ll bet you weren’t expecting to get an actual answer to this, but I’m going to give you one. (Spoiler: None of them are a Harley.)

        First, I do use all of my bikes for commuting (the electric bicycle often, too, when the fancy strikes me) and usually ride a different one each day. They all get better mileage than my car and certainly better than my truck.

        KLR650: Long distance touring and adventure rides, motocamping, hauling comically large objects that should not be transported by motorcycle.

        Bashan BSR-250/Enforcer: I ostensibly bought this for my nephew to ride on adventure trips with me, but I also use it for tooling around town, light duty shopping, etc.

        Honda VT750C/Shadow A.C.E.: Two up riding and touring, also good for making lots of obnoxious noise. My wife likes the passenger seat and sissy bar. Goes faster than the Vanvan, even with two people on it for long trips.

        Yamha FZ6R: Dicking around on twisty roads. Irritating Tesla/M3/AMG/Corvette owners.

        Orion/Nicot RXB250L: Playing in the dirt, at the motocross track, off road, doing wheelies, and narrow technical trails I probably shouldn’t try to manhandle the KLR down.

        Honda CH50/Metropolitan: In town errands, shopping trips. It achieves ludicrous fuel economy and you can fit a lot of stuff under the seat. My wife rides this one more than I do.

        Suzuki RV200/Vanvan: Bought for my wife to learn how to ride a “real” motorcycle, i.e. with a clutch and gears. She uses it for motocamping trips.

        • @CADmonkey@lemmy.world
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          97 months ago

          Relevant username, lol.

          I used to have a DR650, and used it much like your KLR. It was getting tothe point where I had to fix it all the time, I had another weird little bike that I couldn’t get parts for which also needed help… I ended up selling both and buying one bike that I could just ride. I love riding, and love different bikes for different things, but I don’t like maintaining a fleet of stuff, keeping tags up to date on a fleet of bikes, so…

            • @Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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              07 months ago

              Well you tried to spin it like they’re each a unique tool serving a special purpose that you need fulfilled.

              But really you’re just a guy who likes motorcycles.

              • @dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
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                37 months ago

                Yes? That’s how it works.

                You can draw a triangle and label the points “highway,” “dirt,” and “urban” and any bike you pick will describe a dot in one position on that triangle and never ever touch all three points at the same time.

                All vehicles are for the purposes of transportation (or recreation), just possibly for moving different types of things across different terrain with different strengths and weaknesses. You’re trying to split a hair that doesn’t need to be split as if it’s some kind of “gotcha” that everyone in the world knows is irrelevant except you.

                • @Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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                  -27 months ago

                  Driving on dirt isn’t exactly a special purpose that you need fulfilled. Most people live their lives just fine with zero motorcycles, and here you are with seven trying to tell us you need them all.

    • @glimse@lemmy.world
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      187 months ago

      If you’re looking for a magic bullet, you will probably need it in a few different calibers.

      That’s a clever way to put it and I like it

    • @assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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      57 months ago

      If you’re looking for a magic bullet, you will probably need it in a few different calibers.

      This is an excellent phrase and I’m going to have to start using it

    • oce 🐆
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      17 months ago

      What do you think about the impact of owning so many vehicles?

      • @dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
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        27 months ago

        Zlich. Because – stay with me here – I can only operate one of them at a time.

        “BuT tHe PrOdUcTiOn ImPacT!!!”

        I bought all but two of them used. That ship sailed before I even swung a leg over.

        • oce 🐆
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          17 months ago

          Buying second hand definitely reduced the impact. But it still creates a demand for second-hand that motivates people/companies to buy more new products because they know they can easily sell it back.

  • @marine_mustang@sh.itjust.works
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    587 months ago

    I did the math once for my own commute, on my e-bike and with my electric car, and found that while the electric car uses only 20% of the energy that an average gas-powered car would, the bike uses just 1%. My bike, on my route (both directions averaged together) got 2,200 mpge.

      • @marine_mustang@sh.itjust.works
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        337 months ago

        Just another example of how Americans will use anything but metric (we do use metric sometimes, I know, it’s just a meme). We could easily measure it in Wh/km, but then we would also have to change how we measure gasoline cars if we want people to make direct comparisons. But, since we sell gas by the gallon, we would also have to change how gas is sold. When the EPA first came up with mpge I thought it was stupid (we don’t buy electricity by the gallon!), but I’ve come around to the convenience of being able to easily compare the two types of fuel. The EPA assumes 1 gallon of gas to contain 33.7 kWh of energy.

        Maybe we should get everyone to switch to Joules for measuring, buying, and selling gasoline and electricity?

        • @frezik@midwest.social
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          107 months ago

          It’s a pretty flawed comparison, though. It assumes a certain amount of fossil fuels being burned at the power plant that’s feeding your electric car. That’s a number that varies a lot between regions, and is bound to change as more and more renewables are spun up. Putting solar panels on your home throws the whole comparison out. It’s nearly useless.

          • @turmacar@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Isn’t the point for the consumer to measure their cost? Not the overall efficiency of the production and distribution for each source of fuel?

            Like I buy X gallons per month of gas because my car gets 20 mpg and I dive Y miles. If this electric car uses Z amount of electricity and I still drive Y miles, I’ll save ß dollars.

            • @PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
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              37 months ago

              It is not really possible for the consumer to calculate their respective mpge, since your specific utlities power mix will differ region by region.

            • @frezik@midwest.social
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              27 months ago

              That’s the idea, but it doesn’t actually do that. Even if it did, the cost would be variable by region, so it’s still imperfect.

        • The Hobbyist
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          7 months ago

          To be fair, even in metric countries in Europe, they use imperial occasionally. This is the case for wheel sizes and display sizes, both usually measured in inches.

          • @frezik@midwest.social
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            97 months ago

            Don’t tell them. Once you start looking for exceptions to “use metric for everything”, you’ll find one in every country, and people get really angry when you point this out. As if not being 100% metric is some kind of moral failing.

            Car tire sizing is a bizarre, design-by-committee thing, though. Diameter is in inches, width is in mm, and sidewall width is a percentage of the width. Why?

        • @assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          You’re using kWh instead of Joules in your comment. :P

          Joules represent a very small amount of energy. We probably want kWh or kJ. Although, I think just places in the US already use kWh for electricity?

        • @cantsurf@lemm.ee
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          17 months ago

          It’s not complicated. Mpge allows you to compare energy efficiency vs internal combustion cars. They also provide kWh/100 mi, which allows you to calculate actual cost of operation, depending on how much you pay for a kWh.

      • nicetriangle
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        207 months ago

        The E is for Equivalent. It’s how “fuel” efficiency is discussed when referring to non liquid fuel vehicles.

      • @assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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        17 months ago

        This is a weird definition they’re using, and it doesn’t encompass the whole box. An electric vehicle might be more efficient on a distance per unit energy basis, but it’s less efficient on a total energy basis because we lose some of the energy in the electrification.

  • @NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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    537 months ago

    My only problem with ebikes is there’s no chance in hell I’m consistently driving on the road with cars.

    With how convenient these are, I hope there’s more push to add protected bike lanes in road heavy places to increase adoption.

      • @NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        It is, and we have some of the best in the country at that. It’s just takes a long time to make a place meant for cars into meant for bikes

        We aren’t no Netherlands.

  • @TurboDiesel@lemmy.world
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    397 months ago

    Whaaaaat? You mean electric last-mile micromobility cuts down on emissions in a significant way, just like people had been saying for years? Who would have thought?

  • @CADmonkey@lemmy.world
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    367 months ago

    When I was younger and more invincible around 2005, I bought one of these crappy Ebay engine kits for a bicycle. One thing I noticed is that it wasn’t really any slower from home to work than a car, because I could go around traffic. An E-bike would have been great. A lot of them get around on 500 watt or 750 watt motors, which is considerably smaller than an electric car’s motor.

    I’d have one now, but it’s hard to ride one when I have to carry a kid with me most places.

    • paraphrand
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      7 months ago

      It’s fun how the preview image for the article has two kids being carried around. But I can understand if you don’t see that as safe in your area, etc.

          • downhomechunk [chicago]
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            17 months ago

            Yes. For context, she’s 4 and very skittish. I have a burley trailer for my bike I got in the hopes that we could ride together. I only successfully got her in it once for a gentle ride around the park. She screamed in terror the entire time. She does, however, love taking public trans.

    • @PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      I have both am ev and an ebike, and a 7 mile commute.

      Driving takes between 20 minutes and an hour and a half. Biking takes 45 minutes no matter what.

      Car uses about 25x more energy though and parking is around $20/day.

      I should add my son much prefers the bike.

  • @scarabic@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Goddamn I love my ebike. It’s still very much a bike, but it changes the equation. I can ride a nice big heavy comfortable cruising frame, pull my kid in a trailer bike, get up steep hills that would otherwise stop me, and go 4x as far before I’m tired. It is just a total game changer. I’ve rediscovered the joy of riding my bike like I haven’t known it since college. I’m older and creakier than ever but my bike enjoyment hasn’t diminished - it has increased.

    • Lenny
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      57 months ago

      Same! I live on the top of a big hill, so leaving my house on a bike was never the issue, but I always dreaded the ride home. Now I own an ebike and I regularly use it to go into town for groceries. In fact, I just added a second basket so I can buy three full bags of groceries in one trip. I find myself actually looking forward to errands now.

      • @scarabic@lemmy.world
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        27 months ago

        Yes! And I’m pretty lazy about exercise so having the “help me” button there keeps me from avoiding the bike.

    • @Michal@programming.dev
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      147 months ago

      Second, they are more fun and you get to avoid all the traffic.

      Third, cheap to run, no need to pay insurance, taxes, parking.

      Fourth, anyone can ride it even children, no drivers license needed.

      And so on…

  • @computerscientistI@lemm.ee
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    237 months ago

    I have heard this for years now. This all fine. I also have an E-Bike. I really love using it. But I live in central Europe. Weather is really shitty here from October-March. I use my car then. And no, clothing for biking in bad weather is not an option for me. I really can’t be bothered to change clothes on my job. I just won’t do that.

    • @nexusband@lemmy.world
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      77 months ago

      And the issue is where? You can just fuel up your car with co2 neutral fuel (like many Europeans already do with HVO100 Diesel in Sweden, the Netherlands and many other countries) and do the rest with your ebike. You probably dropped your co2 footprint to less than 5 tonns. The fact that HVO100 Diesel right now is ~30 cents more expensive doesn’t matter anymore. B33 gasoline is coming and 2025 it’s expected to be ramped up to 100% sustainable.

      And compared to a BEV that needs more than 10-15 tonns to be even produced, just driving an older or cheaper car longer still makes it less co2 overall.

    • @negativeyoda@lemmy.world
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      -37 months ago

      I really can’t be bothered to change clothes on my job. I just won’t do that

      I mean… you do you, but that gear generally amounts to a jacket, pants that go OVER your pants and different shoes. You’re just fucking lazy. Own it

      • @Moneo@lemmy.world
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        57 months ago

        Yup. I invested in rain pants and a jacket, all I need now are shoe coverings. Get to work, strip it all off in 30 secs and put it in a waterproof bag. It’s just a matter of adjusting expectations and habits.

        To me it’s way less complicated than driving. I don’t have to worry about gas, traffic, parking, maintenance, break downs, and the stress of driving in the rain trying not to kill anyone. I understand why people are hesitant, but I think a lot of people just need to suck it up and give it a shot.

        Also, public transportation is just straight up better than both driving/cycling when done right.

      • @computerscientistI@lemm.ee
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        17 months ago

        You’re just fucking lazy.

        Absolutely. Is there any context in which you can “I can’t be bothered with…” interpret as anything else as lazy? But so what? I will not ride my bike in shitty weather. And most people will do the same thing.

        • @negativeyoda@lemmy.world
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          07 months ago

          You can also do you, but you kind of lose any sort of moral high ground in this argument by insisting that others solve the problem for you when you can’t even do the bare fucking minimum

          • @computerscientistI@lemm.ee
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            17 months ago

            So… I go to work by e-bike 8 out of 12 months. Whenever I take my car, I take my BEV (MG4) that I charge with electricity from renewable sources.

            And you? What do you actually do for the environment?

            • @negativeyoda@lemmy.world
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              07 months ago

              If you want to play the upstreaming game, where did the rare earth metals in your electric car come from?

              Electric cars are here to save the car industry, not the environment.

              • @computerscientistI@lemm.ee
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                17 months ago

                Let’s stay on topic: Environment. Human rights is a whole nother can of worms. What do you think the supply chain of whatever device you are using for lemmee right now looks like?

                Back to environment: What are you doing for the environment except for judging others: I drive a car that has a very low carbon footprint regarding its whole lifespan. Also I ride to work on an E-Bike 8 out of 12 months. What are you doing?

  • @beeng@discuss.tchncs.de
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    7 months ago

    Watched a YouTube about electric vs gas scooters in Taiwan 🇹🇼. Apparently it’s like 6 scooters for every 10 people, crazy!

    But the uptake of electric scooters wasn’t as much as they thought, but a lot of complaints were around “cost”, “parking” and “weight”

    Sounds like an electric bicycle would solve all those issues over an electric scooter 🛵

    Especially for the poorer, high 2 wheel usage nations, like Vietnam or India.

    Just have to pedal a bit! 😉

  • @jabjoe@feddit.uk
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    227 months ago

    Great. All technologies that bring down CO2 emissions are needed.

    As long as people get rid of their dino juice cars, who cares.

    • @nexusband@lemmy.world
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      -127 months ago

      Yeah, right. And make 15 tonns of co2 extra, that would not have been needed when filling up the “Dino juice” car with “techno juice” that has 0% CO2.

      But, we’ve lost the battle anyway already, so who cares.

      • @jabjoe@feddit.uk
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        107 months ago

        Oh I see, you thinking alterative fuels to keep legacy car going. Problem is, those are biofuels and use a lot of land to grow and end up even more expensive than dino juice.

        EV running costs is way cheaper and their up front costs is coming down fast. They use slightly more CO2e to make, but way way less to run. Plus those of us lucky enough to have drives can just charge at home, which is great. There does need to better infrastructure for those without drives.

        • @Moneo@lemmy.world
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          37 months ago

          Bingo bongo. There are also tons of greenhouse gases + other pollution associated with cars that are not the gas they burn to drive. Road infrastructure is a big one.

          • @jabjoe@feddit.uk
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            17 months ago

            Ties are a problem that we are just beginning to understand. But we can replace and keep the car.

            I mean don’t get me wrong, I’d love good public transport instead. When it’s good, people use it instead. When I go to a decent (European) city I want to ditch the car a.s.a.p as it’s just a hamper.

        • Ann Archy
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          7 months ago

          I also think one aspect that keeps getting omitted from the conversation are exhaust fumes.

          We know that they are toxic and a common cause of any number of cardio-vascular and other diseases, including straight up turning you into a god damned moron. Yet it’s perfectly accepted that we fill every cubic centimeter of our cities with them, and expect everyone to breathe in the noxious gasses every day of our lives.

          I don’t want to inhale your exhaust fumes, I don’t want to die faster and under greater pain just because you can’t be arsed to bike instead of driving a car.

          • @jabjoe@feddit.uk
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            27 months ago

            I don’t think the toxic fumes are left out of the conversation. It’s horrifying round schools at drop off or pick up. In decades to come we’ll look back in amazement what was acceptable.

  • YⓄ乙
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    227 months ago

    I think big cars and SUV should be banned.everyone should use a moped or a bike but 9-5s pretending to be rich will hate it.

      • @hex_m_hell@slrpnk.net
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        7 months ago

        SUVs have lower cargo capacity than more fuel efficient vans, and often even less than cars like old Foresters. They 100% serve no purpose, but people have been tricked in to believing this lie about cargo capacity.

        Even trucks today have lower cargo capacity than vans, while also having worse fuel efficiency.

        But lets for s second assume this lie is true. Why not require a commercial license for any vehicle built on a truck frame? Prove you need it and you could get an exception.

  • AItoothbrush
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    227 months ago

    Oh really? Maybe not moving 2,5 tons of metal and battery isnt a good idea? Maybe bikes were always a better mode of transport? I have a feeling that this was pretty obvious.

    • Ann Archy
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      7 months ago

      The article talks about electric bikes, not normal ones. That’s e-bikes, or rather what I suspect that they are peddling as a newsertainment article: e-scooters.

      • @ZiemekZ@lemmy.world
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        17 months ago

        A fully enclosed velomobile would probably do the job, but I don’t think it’s legal anywhere in Europe :(

  • Ann Archy
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    7 months ago

    This reads like an advertisement. Not saying it is. But it does.

    Edit: Oh, AAP (Australian Associated Press)! Then it’s definitely an advertisement.

      • KroninJ
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        17 months ago

        I know drivers are idiots but in my area bikes are supposed to ride on the streets. Could get a ticket for being in the sidewalk.

        • @dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
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          27 months ago

          Same where I live, too. But I ride on the sidewalk anyway. No one has ever said anything about it in decades and I’d rather not get killed.