Notice: This post is made out of frustration and you can leave your thoughts and anger here too.
I am 25, female, german and a freelance photographer. Since a year I am trying to get into concert photograpy with pay. The first 10 concerts I did of course for free to build my portfolio but now I reached the point where I want to get real jobs and some respect for my work.
But as many fellows know it is a hard world out there and you have to give 200% effort to get 2% chance on landing a job. So one of my strategies were writing pm‘s to concert photographers on instagram with the question if they could be so kind and spill the tea about experiences in the business.
Guess what? The answers were vague and short or you would get ignored. Further it would stop at telling the simple thing of which lens they used. I get it that everyone has their own style and tries to protect it but you can nit be replaced that quickly by just helping one out with some info.
Can someone tell me about similar experiences? Is there someone who is not afraid of giving informations about this photography sector? I would really like to not feel alone anymore with this behavior.
Thanks guys!
Summary: Freelance photographer trying to get into concert sector but struggles to get paid jobs. Succesfull photographers won‘t have a conversation about their experiences. Hence their the biggest gatekeepers in my opinion!!
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Um, you are in a competitive market that is hard to land paying jobs for and you are shocked that other people you do not personally know are being vague or simply not giving you information on how to land jobs? You do understand you are their competition and every job that you land is one that they can not; basically them helping you to succeed is taking money out of their own pockets.
It is not gatekeeping it is protecting their own jobs and paychecks.
I grew cannabis for 2 decades, all my friends that I trained and employed thanked me by becoming the competition and eventually drove me out of the industry. Learned a very important lesson on helping others into your professional field. Like not to do it.
There was a post about it a while ago.
I suggest maybe go to galleries, exhibit openings and make personal connections. All the while noticing all the little bits & bobs about this sector literally anywhere. Maybe a chat over a drink works better.
But these people have climbed the greasy pole on their own so I doubt they’re very willing to basically help out a competitor who is going to come and get a slice of the same pie.
Also, some techniques they use are probably almost unconscious- they don’t even notice they’re doing something.
Maybe I’m in a minority here, but I think gatekeeping is totally fair. It’s not my responsibility to help people arrive at conclusions/realisations when I’ve had to work hard to get somewhere.
I do a lot of location portrait work and often get DMs from photographers asking where I took certain photos. I just ignore the messages. I do lots of research and spend time and effort to make sure that I get the results I want!
“Gatekeeping” is a term that moochers employ to try to guilt others into letting them mooch. I am frankly surprised that anyone falls for it, but many kind-hearted folks seem vulnerable to this sort of bullying. Alas, bullies gonna bully, and moochers gonna mooch…
I get your point of view but I think there is a difference between the subjects you keep information from. I am not a friend of everyone on their own. Sharing knowledge and helping each other out is beneficial for everyone. This competition mentallity is so tiresome don‘t you think?
I bet there were moments in your career where someone gave you a tip and it helped you out a lot. Did the person who gave you the information Benifit negativly from their action? I bet not. I bet you helped them out with something in return.
Lets be better than that.
Not a professional photographer but cold messaging you like did works in almost no line of work. The rule of thumb is to provide value before having an ask. You started with the ask as a complete rando on the internet which is bound to fail
I’m honestly asking what do you expect? What information did they not tell you? You asked a very vague question and got a vague answer. Just like I asked in my original comment, what do you want to know?
But you’re thinking of it as ‘competition’ whereas I don’t. I don’t engage with it, I just want to do my own thing. I’m not actively saying ‘no I won’t tell you’ but rather just ignoring it. If I wasn’t managing to break into a particular type of photography (say concerts), then I would email every venue in my locale, reach out to tens of artists, approach community music projects etc. I wouldn’t just put it down to ‘gatekeeping’.
Not trying to sound dickish but I learn by absorbing information in my own time - I seldom use other people as a source of improvement (other than looking at other people’s work online etc).
The wolrd will eat you alive if u don’t change that mentality, just an advice from a stranger .
Sharing knowledge and helping each other out is beneficial for everyone.
I am curious how exactly it would be beneficial for a photographer to share the secret to their success with you? And specifically via PM where the conversation would only be between you two, only you would get the info and no larger audience would see?
Many seasoned and successful photogs create courses and do coaching about this exact question. The privileged to receive one-on-one time and answers to your personal questions usually has a decent cost associated because their time and experience matters and they have worked hard to get to where they are.
Photography may be their passion, but it is also their business.
I don’t mean to be mean but…
So one of my strategies were writing pm‘s to concert photographers on instagram with the question if they could be so kind and spill the tea about experiences in the business.
Guess what? The answers were vague and short or you would get ignored.
That’s not gatekeeping, it’s simply not being interested in helping someone they don’t know with nothing in it for them.
You’re expecting them to take time and put effort into hand-crafting replies to give you information with nothing in return.
They’re not saying you can’t be an event photographer, they’re not stopping you from doing anything, they’re just too busy living their own lives to want to take the time to help you.
Your best bet is to ask on forums like this one where people can elect to provide advice if they want to, or to search up the answer (it’s been asked often enough!). Most people posting on social media like Instagram don’t tend to have in depth conversations about anything, in my experience, unless they stand to gain from it.
with nothing in it for them.
They don’t get nothing, they get additional competition for already scarce work.
Well that too, although (in her defence) no sign that OP is targetting people local to her for advice - they could be half the world away.
But yeah… I guess it is a little like asking a baker in their bakery for their secrets of how to get into baking.
That’s literally it. Oh you want to get into this industry that I’m in? That’s already highly competitive? And you want my advice? Why, pull up a chair and have a seat! I’ll tell you all about it!
Said no one ever. As with any industry, the moment you go from hobby to business it’s cut-throat. This isn’t a photography specific scenario.
And on Instagram of all places. At least do the legwork to track down an email and contact them directly and personally instead of via a medium that’s essentially a spam generator.
Ive had other photographers trash talk me in front of my modells during TFP shoots, only to see them post significantly worse pictures then the ones I took after the fact. So its not even exclusive to “professionals”.
Sorry to hear that. No one deseeves that.
Contact the opening bands for asking for a press pass from them instead of the headliners, who probably had 100 photographers reaching out to them.
Also, try reaching out to the record labels themselves.
I’m in your same situation but have had some luck recently when a band I shot in the past asked me to be the photographer for their label’s two day festival. It was good publicity and networking.
Try to link up with a local newspaper or blog and take pictures on their behalf or start your own site.
I worked with a guy who toured with a bunch of bands back in the late 90s/ early 2000s. To hear him tell it, when Napster came about and the music industry had to reorganize itself, the money/demand for anything outside just the music dried up. That was kinda the last hayday for that sort of gig, at least full time.
Now it seems to be more about connections. For example, the few concert gigs I’ve done over the years came from referrals from corporate events/headshots. Granted, the people I work for never explicitly marketed for concert photography, so take that as you will.
I’d say it comes down to doing your craft well, getting in front of the right people through connections, and marketing yourself well enough that you get your work seen by the people you want to hire you. Music photography is kind of like fashion in the sense that a lot of people want and do that job but only a handful make a living doing explicitly just that one thing.
Yes and no but most of the information is out there for you to find, learn, and practice. You’re going about it wrong and looking for handouts. Why would anyone just want to give you information? What did you offer those people you’re seeking out to give you something?
You worked free, you took bread out of their mouths nd you want them to train you. I think you have a problem understanding what business is about, I don’t want to advertise for other photographers on my website, I sure as hell am not going to teach them how to market, and become my competition.
I also wouldn’t expect them to hand over all their trade secrets.
Not a pro, so please don’t come after me. My guess is that they get tons of requests for advice/help from people trying to go pro, ranging from absolute beginners with zero experience who think photography is just pushing a button, to actual professionals trying to get into other branches.
They probably worked hard too, to get to where they are now and don’t own any random stranger on the internet their professional time or advice.
The fact that they even replied to you, is a courtesy.
Agree
It’s not quite clear if this is ranting or question. Please make it little more clear about it.
If it is question, what is your main focus here? Getting income through concert photography? Getting income through any photography? Getting access to bigger concert despite no income? The know-how of how to be a good concert photographer? How to make other photographer answer you in more personal level? Would be great if you can rephrase the question so it can be a bit more clear.
It’s reddit here. If you rant, you will hear the rant back.
It’s hard to see the whole picture from your description but this is the way I see:
10 concert is not much. Did you make portfolio as a concert photographer and is it good quality and unique enough to the level that the host would specifically hire you for that specific look?
Don’t ask what lens other pro use. They usually use whatever that gets the job done. Focusing on gear gives the amateur vibe and they will take you as a beginner. You should know your tool by heart and you should know what parameters of lens make what features. On top of it, most of characteristics are added in post process. Also, you can always rent lenses for few days from camera shops if you are curious of some lens.
Time is money. I don’t think it’s weird that pro photographers gave half baked answers.
If your route is blocked, find a different way, a different niche, a different category, a different channel - but the biggest block I can see is your mindset.
I had a photography business for just shy of 2 decades. I would often get other photographers that wanted to get into the business contact me and ask about the whole process.
I’d charge them a consultation fee - and this would keep the drive bys at bay. I had probably 4-5 consults like this and 2-3 of them went on to be successful. The market I live in is really big, so competition is. It so much an issue. The niche they wanted to get into was different than what I did (portraiture, but they wanted to do baby and mini shoots and that is not my thing at all).
Even so, I know of a few larger corporations CEOs that will give you a few hours of their time if you pay.
Seems very fair.
However, business is business and people are busy, out there hustling. No one is entitled to anything and no one owes anyone else anything.
I’ve changed as now I’m doing journalism and not paid photo shoots anymore, so I don’t have the worry about training a competitor, so I do tend to help out more pro bono than I used to.
The only thing I never understood was when photographers got all secretive about what gear they use, EXIF data and their post processing workflow.
The “secret sauce “ is not the gear or the plug in you use. The key is cultivating the eye to see what needs to be captured, getting the light how it needs to be.
Oh, and I’d say that about 80% of photographers think they are better than everyone else or are a-holes anyone - so o don’t think that this situation the OP is in is gatekeeping, it’s just probably people being busy, personalities.
Thanks for your inside! It gives me a perspective on what is ahead of me.