The stat that kills me is that after MJ retired the first time in 1993, the next year the Bulls team only won 2 less games without him in the regular season (and made it to game 7 of the second round in the playoffs): contrast that with the when LeBron left the Cavs in 2010, the next season the Cavs only won 19 games total (where they had won 61 games with him in the 09-10 regular season).
Without MJ in his mid-prime: minus-2 wins
Without LeBron in his early-prime: minus-42 wins
I actually believe the debate would still be between MJ and LeBron for GOAT, even if MJ or LeBron had won only 1 ring (and I would still have LeBron slightly ahead of MJ if LeBron had gone 1-9 in the Finals instead of 4-6). Bball nerd Ben Taylor (and Nate Duncan, love or hate him) studies the film and all the stats on the GOATs and he has KG tied with Duncan for the 7-8 spots in the Top 10, ahead of Wilt, Bird, Magic, Curry, Kobe, etc. KG only won 1 ring, but context matters: he was drafted and spent his first 12 years playing in NBA hell in Minny. I can’t hate on KG for being drafted by a terribly mismanaged organization, just like I can understand the context of Duncan’s position on the best managed/coached team of all-time with multiple HOF-ers and great role players galore. Basketball is a team sport, so team context matters for all of these players’ careers
No because making up “what if this person had these accolades or didn’t” is a dumb waste of time since we have a hard enough time agreeing on what they DID do.
You take a non-scientific subjective process and add MORE subjectivity to it. How is this fun for you guys? The answer is whatever you want it to be based on what you’re changing their stats too. Want them to be seen more favorably? Make up accolades, less favorably, what if they didn’t do the things we watched them do?
Maybe get a hobby instead….
Making hypotheticals about team-based accolades can make it easier to recognize individual impact.
The fact you’re trying to say it’s a pointless thought exercise just proves how much of your ranking of players is based off the singular results we have to go off of.
Ok name the 100% agreed upon top ten so we can pull away accolades and keep this entire thing in order.
Oh there isn’t one?
Thanks for coming to my TedTalk.