Has anyone else noticed that most photography forums outside of Reddit have some very opinionated, bitter arsch-holes as members? I cannot find a single forum outside of Reddit that offers positive / constructive criticism, just people who are toxic beyond belief…
You must log in or register to comment.
Sadly you find them in any kind of group. Look up Dunning-Kruger Effect and add in some brand snobbery and you get my point.
Always been that way across several forums.
Part of the “toxicity” is the common requests for feedback and constructive criticism. So the responses are limited to, “here’s where you can improve.” Then people are offended that the responses aren’t just likes and praise.
I’ve spent a good amount of time on r/photocritique and there is a ton of toxicity there. So many unhelpful responses (I.e “shit picture” or some sarcastic remark). It’s not everyone and some do give great constructive criticism, but it surprised me how many people gave out crappy advice or just plain rude unhelpful comments. Also I don’t understand what can’t be accomplished with a “here’s where you can improve” comment, seems like an effective way to give constructive criticism
It’s because they’re full of older-middle-aged to elderly white men with little other outlet (bc they are jerks) who are focused on their camera brand as an identity.
I’ve never experienced this in person, because those types either don’t show up to things in person, or they’re too cowardly to act that way in person. Even when I was a 14yo girl hanging out at the camera store, all the dudes were at least polite to me, most of them very friendly and supportive.
Non-brand-specific forums for more niche interests like manual focus lenses, film development, medium format and large format, etc are also more polite and friendly, collaborative. Even the very old-school forums like mflenses and getdpi.
I agree Reddit’s better because it’s more casual but also because the audience is younger. Not that young people (esp men) can’t be enormous jerks about their special interest — live voice online gaming? never! — but they often have other things to do.
What an oddly racist remark to make.
Oh yes I’m racist against white people. That’s TOTALLY a thing that exists.
who are focused on their camera brand as an identity.
This is exactly it.
Yes. But it’s also the other stuff, which leads to empty life and a grand sense of superiority and entitlement coupled with terrible manners.
Some photographers are some of the biggest dbags commenting on the internet. You see it all over instagram.
That’s photography in general.
I’ve been shooting pics for about 50 years, and while there have always been egotistical douches, in the last 20 years or so I’ve encountered innumerable photographers who seem to live to crap on other people’s work, refuse to help newbies unless they are getting paid stupid money to do it, and generally think they are insanely talented and most everybody else is a hack. It’s why I don’t talk to a lot of established photographers, and only pop into the photo forums to help people.
in the last 20 years or so
could this possibly coincide with the rise of the internet & internet forums?
It may have some influence, but I’ve run into plenty of these people in person. When I said I don’t talk to photographers in general anymore, I meant IRL as well.
I gotta always ask in this sort of complaint, where’s the evidence?
I’ve generally found photography communities to be nice people.
I asked a simple question about light and heat on this forum. It was immediately met with snarky and sarcastic comments… The helpful stuff came later. Eventually it moved from ‘why don’t you learn physics’ to some properly useful and technically advanced advise on increasing luminance without increasing heat.
People also assumed I was a beginner (I’m one of the world’s most published photographers).
There are some great minds here, but you have to take the good with the bad!
I feel like that’s the whole internet, not just photography forums.
Oh, you’re the guy who shoots inside of musical instruments, like your work, very imaginative (and I imagine difficult to light!).
Any hobby will have this
I find many hobbies where there’s an expensive entry expense, there’s an overabundance of toxic behavior. I saw a ton of it in the scuba community as well. I want to pin it on folks trying to justify spending even more than the small fortune it takes to even get the bare minimum amount of gear to start up. Like, “I spent a thousand bucks on a good quality telephoto lens; you couldn’t possibly waste your time with a $200 kit lens” kind of energy.
Pair that with zero ramifications for anonymous snark and gatekeeping tendencies on reddit.
My pet theory is that it’s a fairly technical hobby but a fairly difficult art form. You can master focus, exposure, lighting and post-processing and still end up with a very boring photo. Have these technically competent but artistically bereft photos that most viewers just shrug their shoulders at and it drives them insane. Cut to a couple years later they have a huge chip on their shoulder and take out their frustrations on beginners asking about what camera to buy.
I can absolutely see that there are artsy photographers who have an eye for the unusual and who look at things from another perspective, they dont use a lot of kit in my experience, just camera and lens. They take photos of things i’ve walked pasa million times and never considered. Those aren’t necessarily the same people you want to photograph your wedding.
To do a couples portrait shoot or photograph an event, being artsy might not help you that much because you need flashes, triggers, umbrellas, lighting is very important, camera needs to shoot redundant etc. There is an art in being able to document and photograph things that are happening in front of you well, and capture the emotion of your subjects while doing so.
I’ve accepted that I’m much more the second one , technical excellence with a flavouring of my style (poses, environment, background etc) is the goal for me but i definitely want to expand my abilities with regard to the first.
That doesnt mean a perfectly exposed, edited and exported photo of your keyboard is any more interesting though!
True
No. The comment you are under has hit it right on the button. Many/ most people can reach a certain level of competence just by practice but only very few have enough artistic talent to make great pictures.
I’ll have you know that I have received many Awards for my technically breathtaking pictures of brick walls!
My pet theory is that it’s a fairly technical hobby but a fairly difficult art form. You can master focus, exposure, lighting and post-processing and still end up with a very boring photo. Have these technically competent but artistically bereft photos that most viewers just shrug their shoulders at and it drives them insane.
I don’t think this is at all. The bitter conversations almost never show up in discussions about actual photography, with few exceptions it’s always in hardware discussions and boils down to brand loyalty/tribalism.
it’s always in hardware discussions and boils down to brand loyalty/tribalism.
I have had a lot of hobbies over the years and the bulk of my time on the Internet ever since I first got on 25+ years ago has been spent in related discussion forums. The part I quoted has been a fundamental feature of every single hobbyist online space I frequented. Every one.
The only caveat I would add is that it’s not always hardware but it’s some fundamental aspect of the hobby that splits people into tribes where they make that aspect their entire personality. Back in the day, people used to have epic flame wars about Dolby Digital vs DTS sound systems, 3Dfx graphics cards vs Nvidia, Stanley Kubrick vs Stephen Spielberg, PlayStation vs Xbox, Pan and Scan vs Letterbox, etc… these online fights got really nasty and personal while I am not gonna pretend that I was strictly above it all, in retrospect it is endlessly bizarre to think about. Ultimately none of this stuff matters so why do people exert such an extraordinary amount of energy for this.
Well yeah. The sunsets/flower photo crowd always falls back on gear. It’s all they got.
No, what you’re seeing here are people who won’t be honest with you and stroke your ego, and you loving it because you can’t take the truth. You’re seeing and hearing what you want to.
Stop going to social media sites, and try forums specifically tailored to & for photographers, but only if you want honest opinions. If not, then you’re right where you should be.
Outside of Reddit? There are countless of those people inside Reddit too!
Welcome to the internet.
Every form of social media seems to suffer from this.
Opinions are like a-holes. Everyone has one and most of them stink.
Will you let me lick your opinion?
You’re not even gonna offer to buy me dinner first?
Tell me you shoot Sony or Canon without telling me you shoot Sony or Canon.
Lol