While they were happy with what the fairphone 4 brought to the table, they seem to like what was changed for the fairphone 5.
What are you guys’ opinions on this? A welcome change? would you get one if your phone died within the next year?
I really wish another viable mobile OS would come out. I don’t want android and apple iOS is wearing thin on me.
Have you tried Ubuntu Touch?
Perhaps next year will be the year of the Linux Phone. Alas, the same problems that plague the Linux desktop plague the phone. Lack of software.
It’s also very difficult to move out of the Apple ecosystem once everything just works the way you think it should. 
I’m quite interested in the developments on waydroid that would allow the use of Android apps on a Linux phone.
Now that’s an interesting concept.
Linux desktop is far more mature and there isn’t even a year for the Linux desktop yet. Linux mobile will probably never take off within our lifetime lmao.
Agreed. I don’t have a home computer. All of my online experience is done through my iPhone. I can’t be messing around with phones I constantly need to tweak or troubleshoot. I’ve done it to myself, but I’m okay with where I’m at rn.
Oh yes please stick with Apple. I don’t think I have ever heard of a better use case scenario.
I can’t tell if you’re being facetious or not.
Seems like an honest recommendation to me. You fit the apple use case pretty well, so if it works for you, great. I’d argue a stock pixel using stock android would be comparable in terms of not needing to mess with stuff since its a very curated experience, since google then controls the hardware and software, like apple.
The trade off is you’re giving google (or apple) 100% access and control to everything you do on your phone.
With a fairphone or any other android with (e, grapheneOS, calyxOS, lineage, etc) you WILL need to change some settings, maybe play around with it a bit to get it working how you want, but you are the one in control. Its really not that difficult to develop the small amount of technological knowledge needed given the amount of help available online and I’d say its a necessary life skill these days just like learning to use a computer became a necessary life skill.
I tried it on a spare old phone and found it pretty unusable tbh. Very limited application choices and I hated the UI / app management work flow.
Also I hated that by default the terminal (and superuser privileges) are VERY locked down.
It’s possible I just didn’t know what I was doing tho ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah, I’ve put Ubuntu Touch on a Pixel 3a and had a pretty similar experience unfortunately. I see potential, but it’s just not usable yet (for me at least).
Dang, I haven’t ever tried it. I was hoping for more configurability.
It would end up getting ignored or quickly devolve into the same shit as the others. 😞
Fuck, if Microsoft couldn’t do it, then there’s not much hope for anyone else.
There was so much competition in the early days of smartphones, its sad we ended up, the whole of humanity with two choices. Meego a collab between Intel and Nokia was really unique and a good model for social media and communications. Windows Phone was good purely to have another major competitor, but the interface was way ahead of Android and iOS for providing a better mobile experience.
RIM Blackberry, Nokia, Palm, all had a red hot go. Amazon tried recently and failed, they look like they’ll give it another shot with their new OS.
Yeah its just sad
I miss WebOS as a mobile OS and I can’t bear to see what LG has done do it.
Try Murena on fairphone!
It’s less about the hardware and more about the software. I would love to use a fairphone
Why not Android?
degoogling intensifies
Graphene OS might interest you.
I’m not going to criticize the project, because it’s good. But, to me, using anything that gives Google an edge in controlling the direction of technology is bad. So, no Chromium products and no Android.
I despise Google, and I agree with chromium, but when the only other alternative is using the proprietary walled garden that is iOS, I’ll take degoogled Android everyday.
What can android do that you actually do that iOS cannot?
Personally, I like using the terminal on my phone, and the only terminal I found for iOS is extremely slow because its emulating linux.
For starters, you can degoogle Android, you can’t deapple iOS.
You can replace the manufacturer android with a clean, free software and secure Android ROM, like GrapheneOS. iOS is a black box, fully proprietary and controlled by Apple.
You can install apps from third parties on Android, like F-Droid. On iOS every app must be approved by Apple.
You can’t use an iPhone without an Apple account, you can use Android without a Google account.
Android has multiple profiles support, which comes handy for completely isolating apps from the rest of your phone.
There’s much, much more. That’s just what came to my mind right now.
For a regular user… basically nothing.
I quit google products and services a decade ago, so I was “relegated” to iOS, which… does basically the same exact fucking thing but better in every way. It’s spendy though. I also like their privacy stance, which is “we cost a lot but we’re not selling all of your data to advertisers”
I have not found a single thing I can’t do on iOS that I COULD on Android.
People spout WaLLeD GaRdEn and what I read is “privacy” and I’m in
And I give it a 0/10 on having a 3.5mm connector
Is that really that much of an issue in the age of USB-C?
Yes, the 3.5mm jack is more durable than USB-C (since it is rotationally symmetric twisting doesn’t apply force to the connector), it maintains compatibility with billions of audio devices and doesn’t block your charging port if you use it.
They could just make magnetic connectors with a shallow socket. But those would last longer and you wouldn’t need to keep buying new stuff.
CC: @Petter1@lemm.ee
I love the CC. Makes this conversation feel more formal.
Yes, it does impart a sense of gravity to otherwise mundane chatter. The only thing missing is letterhead with a monogram.
For some reason I don’t yet understand, my fediverse server inserts the CC in some replies and I forgot to catch it. I haven’t had time to analyze the rooster’s guts yet.
Begs the question why aren’t charging jacks designed like audio jacks?
If you wanted them just for charging it would be fine. Barrel jacks are still pretty ubiquitous.
If you want them to also be data they get less great. They make 3.5mm/etc jacks with 3 “pins” and I assume more. But every time you’re inserting/removing the cable it’s rubbing past the insulators separating the contacts. Their failure per plug/unplug is higher than something like USB-C where the 24 contacts are being pushed together instead of brushing past each other. It would suck if you put in your USB-barrel and one of the contacts broke/bent.
It’s actually a bit crazy - and very impressive - that the cable I use to tickle-charge my phone at 15W could also be used to connect four 4K screens, an external GPU, multiple 10GBe network adapters all while providing well over 200W of power… if my phone supported and of that, that is.
That’s just the USB-C standard, to get 200W and 4k video you need the fancy shielded high-gauge cables.
Well for only 4k, a relatively normal USB-C cable is enough, the fancy cables are for 20 and 40 Gbit/s which is only needed if you gl crazy with your FPS | Hz (more than 60Hz | FPS
Typical stereo headphones have 3 pins. Left, right, common ground. Tip, ring, and sleeve (not sure if the conductor order).
4-conductors used to be common for portable camcorders and early digital cameras. They’d put our composite a/v (extra conductor for video/yellow, still a shared ground). Tip, R1, R2, sleeve.
I’ve seen USB 2.0 (or perhaps 1.x) done over a 4-pin 3.5. And I’ve seen RS232 over 3.5 a number of times too (used to be common in ham radio in the 90s/early naughts).
The video ones are what I was thinking of. Fair enough that I forgot to count ground.
There are plenty of products out there that use TS style audio plugs (more 2.5mm in my experience than 3.5mm) for DC power for portable devices. When you get to data transfer requirements, the higher pin counts of current connectors wouldn’t be space efficient.
See, you just described a thing and made a statement, but I don’t buy that one bit. I’ve broken several 3.5mm plugs but never once a USB-C.
I’m on the side of 3.5mm in phones, but there’s a reason XLR and 1/4" are the industry standards for audio.
I’m the opposite. I’ve broken several USB-C connectors, and not one 3.5mm
XLRs on phones? I can get behind that.
I’m sorry what? The 3.5mm is better because it’s rotational symmetrical?
Thats a minor win. You rarely really need that rotation capability, and what little you need can be made up with thinner cables (which is easier with a digital signal and DACs in the headphone, which can’t be done compatibly with 3.5mm and people are dumb) The you also have to sacrifice connection friction to gain rotation, and that has tradeoffs, especially when that friction is caused by a spring-loaded conductor (which also means more friction likely means fewer insertion cycles before friction starts dropping off).
It also really sucks at strain relief without massive dookie springs or rubber butts…and the bigger the strain relief, the more subjective it is to perpendicular force, which is really easy to do on a 3.5mm diameter cylinder of gold-plated iron/tin alloy with the fulcrum also being at the base of the cylinder.
Other cool thing about what could be done with USB-C headphones. A lot of companies put lead weights full-sized headphones for balance or comfort (more weight makes it feel more secure). Good Modern drivers don’t need to be as heavy as they used to be. How bout instead of weights, they use lipos? Now your headphones can charge your phone (when in wired mode, hell, I’m talking about fictional mid/high-end cans, they could have Bluetooth and ANC while we’re at it since they have power), and your charger port point is essentially moot.
3.5 jack port is definitely not more durable than USB-C. If you have good headphones, the change that the 3.5 plug is gigantic in length and the cable thicc AF which causes a lot of stress in the plug due to very large leverage. Additionally, I prefer to use the DAC integrated in my headphones rather than using the low quality tiny DAC in my phone. And in digital, the cable thickness does not matter really.
Very few people are plugging their large headphones into their phones though. For a more reasonable pair of portable headphones or IEMs the size of the plug isn’t a problem.
But congratulations, you have hit on my biggest audio pet peeve! DACs matter very little these days. Anything talking about DACs and not the DAC/Amp stages is marketing BS. Even dirt cheap DAC chips will acoustically transparently convert the digital signal to analog in audio frequencies because it is so basic to do. DACs on their own are useless for audio anyway, what really matters in your audio signal is the amp circuitry after the DAC that applies gain to the signal to useful levels as the choices there do make an acoustic difference if the design is poor.
What makes you think the DAC/Amp in your headphones is going to be better than the one that is built into the SoC of your phone? I don’t think I’ve ever seen any measurements of headphone DAC/Amps.
I learned that from my father, who mostly listen to music from his phone using external headphone amp for his bayer dynamics studio headphones, or uses digital out (via Bluetooth) and let his other Bayern dynamics active headphones do the DAC. He is sure that he hears the difference, but of course that could all be in his head alone. I myself am not a hiFi enthusiast, I only find the tech behind it very interesting. (I listen to music using airPods and in my car using CarPlay, sorry iPhone user here, but thinking to migrate as soon as my iPhone X becomes unusable) But given my interest in tech, I appreciate the explanation, that cheap DAC chips are very good as well, these days.
Yes, I should be able to play music, AND charge the phone without a 9 wire adapter like those universal charger plugs from 10 years ago. Wild concept. I wonder when phone tech will be able to support such a thing
I think phones should have 2 USB-C ports
Only if I can charge 2x as fast!! 😉
There is one that offers this, it has to batteries as well.
Live by the wire, die by the wire(with a 3.5mm plug/jack of course)
This and most phones literally let you do what you’re saying right now.
Yes, it is.
OK
Yes, it’s fucking ridiculous! My cans are now either useless or cumbersome and everything else sounds awful! It’s like you people who just want some noise have never even heard decent audio!
I’ve got the Bose QC 45 headphones which can do both Bluetooth and 3.5 mm. The audio quality is the same between the two delivery methods. The only difference I’ve noticed is an occasional video/audio synching issue with Bluetooth which quickly corrects itself and is usually only an issue with older devices. It’s my understanding that this and the audio lag issue have been solved recently in newer devices.
I personally think Bluetooth is a shit standard that has slowly been fixed over the years, but it’s pretty much 100% there at this point
The real question I have is: is a decent DAC that hard to find? I bought a shit one because it’s only a back-up option for me, but I can’t imagine the good ones are scarce.
Tell it to the phone companies. A DAC and amp should be part of my phone.
Bose is shit.
No, the DAC used should be one that the headphones are designed for, so using integrated DAC of the Headphones should lead to best results just using a high end external DAC would be better.
Lol, your phone has not a good enough DAC that this would be hearable ä, but you do you
my issue right now is that i use one of those charging + 3.5mm splitters in the car, but when they’re both connected there’s a loud ass buzz. a 3.5mm ground loop isolator works but made bass sound terrible. i’m probably gonna get an old phone just for music in the car 🤦🏽♂️
The car doesn’t have Bluetooth connection?
nah, it’s an 08
deleted by creator
Just get a new car pleb.
Honestly Bluetooth in a car has been a must for me for like 10 years now. And having experienced CarPlay, that’s def next (especially for cars that support wireless and have a Qi spot. Thats practically magic)
i like my car :( and i’m paranoid about features in new cars. i can hear a noticeable difference in quality with bluetooth vs wired too. never been a fan
regardless, cars that people primarily use 3.5mm for aren’t going away too soon!
You should do what I did and just fuck up your ears with loud car stereos in your teenage years. Now I can’t tell a damn bit of difference.
honestly, not a bad idea. i’ve already got the tinnitus but i need to step it up
CarPlay transmits audio over wifi
I upgraded my car without Bluetooth using a carPlay ready touchscreen auto radio to replace the old thing that was mounted in the DIN drawer thingy
In car, I can recommend using android in the car using the touchscreen of the car. There you can manage audio as well as charging the phone. One cable to rule them all.
No way i’m carrying a dongle
New headphones come with lightning and USB C cable these days
I ain’t buying new ones either
See it positive: you don’t have to choose from many phones if you that much want a headphone jack 😄
Attach the dongle to your wired headset.
There is an adapter, buttt yeah I would really miss being able to just plug in a pair of headphones.
That is a solution to a problem nobody wanted.
Give it a year or two and most headphones will come with USB-C plugs. You’ll have to adapt back to the antiquated 3.5mm.
As it’s now, most things that you would plug a pair of headphones into (or their current-generation equivalent) has USB-C (or USB-A), aside from home theater/pro audio equipment
High end ones will even have their own DACs and amps, and you’ll regret ever missing 3.5mm
First, same was said years ago, yet 3,5mm is still there in many modern phones - and I for one am happy about it.
Second, if we were to move our audio to usb-c (why, though?), please make two ports instead of one. Forcing everything through one physical port adds a lot of everyday inconveniences and reduces reliability.
As well as a 5.25" floppy disc drive and betamax, you call that a phone?!? No thank you, I’ll stick with my x-phone https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nezImUP0w
People complaining about 3.5mm jacks remind of the people who complained about how the iMac G3 didn’t have a 3.5" floppy drive. At first yeah it was weird to leave it out, but it’s been 9 years since the first smartphone launched without a 3.5mm jack (the OPPO R5 in 2014).
If you want ancient tech then your options will be limited.
Ancient tech? Looks at literally every laptop and desktop sold.
Headphone jack removal is anti-consumer and any device without one is missing a key component. Why would I buy a device missing a key component?
Plus you can find wired headphones EVERYWHERE. Walk into any gas station and pick up replacements for $10. Sure they may not be the best quality, but they work. Also, no charging, just plug them into your device. Also, no setup, just plug it in.
Ancient tech? Looks at literally every laptop and desktop sold.
I can’t tell you if any of my laptops have a 3.5mm jack. If they do, I’d rather have another USB-C port instead. And arguing that just because it’s still used in desktop computers, then it can’t be ancient, I’d like to draw your attention toward the rs232 port that still isn’t phased out entirely.
Why would I buy a device missing a key component
In case I missed it, would you like to point out where exactly you’re being forced to buy a specific phone?
I happen to be writing this on an android 13 phone with a 3.5mm jack (I had to check, but it’s there), it’s not like you can’t get a phone with the connector.
i actually find this argument flawed. Bluetooth is great but does not provide feature parity. correct me if I’m wrong but aptX was supposed to be lossless audio, but it has been shown that it has compression artifacts. I’ll be happy with Bluetooth only if we can have absolutely lossless audio
If you can tell the difference between well-compressed, high bitrate audio and lossless audio played on the same equipment, then you’re in the minority. However it’s pretty easy to accidentally end up with a combo of phone / app / app settings / headphones that results in a suboptimal listening experience, either because you’re using a bad codec (like SBC on any device or AAC on many Android phones) or because your music is being compressed twice. You can avoid the latter issue by streaming uncompressed music or by using a combo that doesn’t recompress your music (like Apple Music -> iPhone -> Airpods Pro/Max).
It’s also possible that the reason Bluetooth headphones sound worse isn’t because of losing information but because the headphones just aren’t as good as your wired ones. If you get a portable Bluetooth DAC like the Qudelix 5k, you can connect it to your phone and connect your wired headphones to it.
You don’t have to be happy with Bluetooth. You can buy a USB-C DAC for like $10. Apple’s “USB C to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter” is 9 USD direct from Apple and it tested extremely well. You can use it on any modern phone or on your laptop or tablet, too. (You can also use the Qudelix 5k this way.)
If that adapter isn’t good enough (maybe it doesn’t output enough power for your high impedance headphones), then most phone’s built-in DACs + headphone adapters would have the same problem. Basically only Sony and LG (RIP) phones ever had especially good onboard DACs and amps, and even with them it would often make more sense to get a dedicated portable setup.
For anyone who is happy with Bluetooth, though, they don’t have to worry about all this and they get to reap the advantages of the headphone jack’s removal. The extra space can be used for more battery, if nothing else, and it’s easier to prevent dust/water ingress when you eliminate the headphone jack.
Also, I think you’re thinking of LDAC (by Sony), not aptX (by Qualcomm). LDAC is not lossless, either, but it’s much higher bitrate than anything other than the very recently introduced aptX Lossless, which - under ideal conditions - features lossless compression.
Wired headphones don’t have to incorporate their own DACs, which means any budget wired set will be better than wireless one of the same price - everything can go into the actual analog part of the equation.
The adapter is extremely inconvenient, it’s a small dongle that is easy to lose and you can’t even charge your phone and listen to music at the same time, which I personally do very regularly. Besides, making everything go through one port increases wear and tear and reduces reliability of the device.
3,5mm jack doesn’t take any significant amount of space and the value of extra teeny tiny piece of battery is ridiculously low. This has always felt like a bullshit excuse to me.
Just my 2 cents.
So, the smaller version of the connector that studios use to this day is ancient, huh?
pfft musicians what the hell do they know about music
NOTHING
My electrician says that woodworking doesn’t need ancient tools like hammers.
Actually it’s even older. And it’s also not used in a phone.
The argument that 3.5mm jacks are somehow superior to a digital stream is so laughably flawed. The 3.5mm jack is a shit connector, always has been. It got its success from being paired with the original walkman, not exactly hifi equipment. The durability of the jack is wanting and a few specks of dust in the socket and you’re getting static when you move about.
I don’t know how many sockets I’ve had to replace over time because a male jack broke off in the socket. It’s one thing that the jack is so thin that it can break in your pocket. But when manufacturers then mount sockets, that doesn’t allow you to push the broken part out, and also uses some weird one-hung-low socket with a weird footprint that you can’t source with less than a 5k MOQ, and that is only after searching for an hour. Which then leaves you having to do all sorts of weird cowboy tricks in order to have a working sound output… Then you will get to my level of annoyance with the 3.5mm jack.
All those problems are not really a thing with 6.3mm jacks, but, by all means, keep believing that 3.5mm is superior because professionals use something that looks like it, and disregard everything else.
This is not a well thought out response.
The things you mention had workable replacements and/or were the loser in a standards war. Bluetooth headphones have weaker audio, battery limitations on the headphones and the streaming device and the argument for removing them is just not justified outside of forced path to profits for proprietary headphone sales. Also, there are USB-c headphone options and problems are two fold - clunky, costly adapters and increased stress on the phone’s main charging port.
It’s not even close to ancient and you’re argument is extremely weak.
You’re basically making the exact same Betamax vs VHS argument. The only different is Apple is the Porn industry embracing Bluetooth in favor of wired products.
Aux vs Bluetooth is not analogous to Betamax/VHS. It’s more like WiFi and ethernet. WiFi can replace ethernet most of the time, but there are clear benefits to wired connections.
How is this not technically also the same? WiFi can replace Ethernet all of the time with degraded connectivity outside of super secure offerings. The same argument is made for production quality vs home release quality.
Bluetooth headphones have weaker audio
Please define “weaker”.
forced path to profits for proprietary headphone sales
What are you talking about? How are you forced to buy some specific BT headphones for your phone?
And the argument about USB-C headphones being clunky? Sure, it may not be optimal, but you could always just buy a phone with a jack or give in and switch to BT.
Ethernet must be ancient tech to you.
In an end-user device? Yes, it’s irrelevant. Use wifi unless you have a special usecase.
The difference here is that 3,5mm jacks are not obsolete.
Nobody besides a few grumpy folks opposed the switch from microUSB to Type-C, for example, because we got something better instead.
Floppy drives got obsolete, because again, we got something better - disks! And then flash drives! Always a better, more convenient and functional option.
3,5 mm jack, however, is still completely relevant and is not replaced by anything. It is the only widely adopted consumer-grade standard for analog wired audio. Wireless audio has objective drawbacks: one more battery to control, lower reliability, poorer sound quality (not a big issue with most phones since their DACs are normally not audiophile-grade anyway, but still), higher price, pairing issues, and many more. And USB-C to 3,5mm dongles are obviously terrible: they can get lost, they don’t allow you to listen to music while charging your phone/transferring files, and they are yet another component to manage.
Essentially, wireless audio has been pushed down our throats, and we do not appreciate that. For me, not having a 3,5mm jack is one of the criterions that immediately kill any desire to buy that phone. It will just be a massive pain in the ass for me, and I don’t want that.
Obvious troll is obviously trolling.
The headphone jack is a perfected technology with no competition in terms of usability, performance, environmentally friendliness.
Your analogy makes no sense.
I don’t know if it’s me you’re calling a troll. If it is, I can assure you that I truly believe that the 3.5mm jack is a shit connector, it’s only place was in portable equipment, and that it’s superceded by bluetooth.
Maybe I presented my views in an inflammatory way, but as I’ve stated elsewhere, I wanted to get my view across in as little text as possible. Maybe also be a little provocative, so I’d actually get people to read the comment. But I believe what I said and it wasn’t formulated in that way to piss people off, just to entice and drive the point home. Exaggeration promotes understanding, but maybe my exaggerating got a little too much and disabled the understanding part.
I’ve been tinkering with electronics for close to 30 years by now, and my electronics engineering career is in its 3rd decade, and I have encountered issues with 3.5mm jacks time and again.
Trying to repair broken sockets or broken off jacks, still seated in sockets, is tedious and so low reward, when you can just get some BT headphones.
The BT headphones will break, sure, but I’d rather have good use of some 100€ headphones and a 300€ phone, not be frustrated by the wires tangling, and then discard the 100€ headphones when they break than the phone which can live for much longer. Besides if you’re buying the right BT headphones you’ll be able to source parts for it much easier than an obscure 3.5mm socket with some weird footprint.
Maybe it’s not time for the 3.5mm jack to die, for some, but for the rest of us, we don’t really care about it. Live and let die, but please stop moaning about it.
agree, and not just for 3,5mm jacks. If there is a way to do it with a cable, i will choose the cable instead of a wireless solution. The only time I didn’t was with a wireless mouse that, after a while, I just kept on the cable anyway. They are so very convenient, especially the 3,5mm jack.
Yes, same applies to everything. Thank God USB exists and powers so many wired (and also wireless) devices.
Also, Ethernet on computers is a must.
This is just proof smartphones are toys and not real tools.
They do everything poorly. iPhone video and photo looks like garbage compared to a real camera and now you can’t even play music without overly compressed bluetooth. This is like wanting a flip phone filter for your camera. It’s asinine and backward and you defend it like a lemming because HURR FLOPPY DISK SMALL. Apples and oranges. A universal connector capable of delivering a strong signal is not the same as a low capacity storage format.
But please do go on about how great your tracking device is
you do know that you could have made your point in a nicer manner, yes? why would we want to bring the strenuous tones of hollow outrage from reddit to here?
we are all better than that, even the big danish guys.
He didn’t even make a point. That was all insult and comparisons that don’t compare.
I’m sorry, but I had to say something. I’m so tired of non-technical people moaning about the out phasing of the 3.5mm jack, and especially the arguments about audio quality and vendor lock in that has been raised in this thread. I had to make sure that it was understood, that the view is not unopposed.
Could I have done it more diplomatically? Maybe, but I also wanted to drive my point home in as short a post as possible.
I asked chatgpt to help out rewriting my comment, but with your criticism in mind. It came up with:
While 3.5mm jacks may seem like a staple, it’s worth noting that technology evolves. Much like the transition from 3.5" floppy drives, change takes time to be widely accepted. The omission of the jack in smartphones isn’t about dismissing tradition but adapting to newer, more versatile alternatives. It’s been nearly a decade since the OPPO R5, and as technology progresses, embracing these changes can lead to a broader range of innovative features.
I don’t want to bore people to death, but I can also see now how perhaps I could have attacked the technology instead of the people.
We are better than our old /u/ on reddit, and we must strive to keep it that way. Competing with reddit on toxicity, will be a fight we’ll never be able to win.
Thank you for calling me out on my BS, and helping us all to keep the fediverse a better place.
Being an electronic engineer and a programmer I would categorize myself as a “technical person”. I am also a person that prefers devices that are as reliable an repairable as possible. A headphone without a battery and with a replaceable cable can last you literally decades. A TWS one, will not.
To add to that, using a dongle means a separate device that can break (and is most likely not repairable), that isn’t necessarily compatible with anything you plug it in to, that has a dac (which is redundant since your phone could use the internal one if you had a 3.5mm connector) and that will cause extra battery drain (regardless of how much more, it’s more than 0).
There are literally 0 benefits to removing the headphone jack. Several people have even shown that devices that “don’t have enough space” for it can be modded to add the 3.5mm jack and you don’t even lose any functionality.
Removing the headphone jack is a step backwards.
AND it’s on purpose. It’s to make you switch from your good headphones that work with any analog output to shit that requires their specifications and can be remotely fucked with so you gotta keep buying.
AND it’s on purpose. It’s to make you switch from your good headphones that work with any analog output to shit that requires their specifications and can be remotely fucked with so you gotta keep buying.
[Citation needed]
When you punch me in the nose, I don’t need proof of your intentions.
My own background is in embedded electronics too. Whether there is a benefit in removing the jack or not has not been part of my arguments.
Some people will say that the jack needs to go for waterproofing, but I distinctly remember owning a Sony Xperia M4 which had both a jack and an IP68 rating.
I’m also not saying that your arguments aren’t valid, I just value different aspects… Except for the part about an external DAC being redundant. An external DAC, with RCA or XLR connectors, some proper cable can potentially give you a better result than the internal DAC and the 3.5mm jack. Emphasis on the “potential” part.
I haven’t used wired headphones on a regular basis, since that Xperia in 2015ish, and I don’t miss untangling the wires, or fixing a broken socket where the solder is cracked, the pins are broken inside the plastic housing of the socket, or clearing a socket of a broken male jack.
IMO the 3.5mm jack is a poor connector. It breaks too easily, dust in the socket leads to static and to be quite honest if I can tell a difference in sound quality, it’s my BT headphones that comes out on top.
As long as there’s a demand for 3.5mm jacks in phones they’ll still be marketed. But if people could stop pointing out that another overpriced smartphone lacks the jack, it would just be swell. Just buy a more modestly priced phone instead of forking over +700€ for a frigging phone.
I currently have a Sony Xperia 5V. It has an IP68 rating, it’s basically a flagship phone and it has a headphone jack. Manufacturers don’t include the jack because they don’t want to but it’s 100% possible.
An external DAC, with RCA or XLR connectors, some proper cable can potentially give you a better result than the internal DAC and the 3.5mm jack.
Sorry, but that bit about the external dac is pretty dumb. We’re talking about using a mobile phone and you’re talking xlr and rca? Really?
I don’t miss untangling the wires,
Maybe use a case? I usually have a small roud case for my IEMs that barely takes up space. You’re already carrying a case for tws so I don’t see why it would be a problem.
or fixing a broken socket where the solder is cracked,
At least you can fix it. If the battery on a wireless IEM dies, 9 times out of 10 you can’t fix it and need to get a new one.
the pins are broken inside the plastic housing of the socket,
Maybe don’t use shitty jacks?
or clearing a socket of a broken male jack.
Don’t know how or where you use your phone but that literally never happened to me. Honestly, none of the issues you mentioned have been a problem for me. Maybe take better care of your stuff?
And regarding people pointing out the lack of a basic feature. Yeah, no. If a company makes shitty products, I’ll keep pointing it out. Also, there are fewer and fewer phones with a headphone jack every year. Cheap and expensive. So no, price has nothing to dp with this.
Sorry, but that bit about the external dac is pretty dumb. We’re talking about using a mobile phone and you’re talking xlr and rca? Really?
mama always stupid is as stupid does
I’ve read at least once in this thread an argument, that 3.5mm jack is superior to BT or USB-C, on account of the audio quality. If you’re using your phone for playback in a setup where you can tell the difference, then an external DAC, with proper connectors, is warranted.
Maybe use a case? I usually have a small roud case for my IEMs that barely takes up space.
How about wireless instead? They can be more discreet, and you don’t always have to care about stowing then away. There’s a bit of a difference between rolling the wire(s) up or just plopping the individual TWS in a case, where orientation is handled by a magnet.
Maybe don’t use shitty jacks?
Nothing to do with the jack. I’m talking about the pins coming from the circular part of the socket and going to the PCB. I’ve seen them break inside the socket housing, where you can’t get to them. Leaving you with the options of either
- sourcing a drop in replacement socket, which is time consuming and some of the time futile, or
- plugging in some headphones, fire up the device and start playing some sound, then manipulate the socket while listening to the audio and when you get both left and right working, then securing the position with ad much epoxy as you can get away with. Elsewhere in this thread I’ve mentioned cowboy ways of electronics repair, this is some of what I meant.
If you want to avoid this issue, then you need to evaluate the socket in the device as part of your purchasing considerations. But most stores don’t like it when you take their stuff apart. Instruct your users (in my case friends and family) to be really careful OR just use wireless.
Don’t know how or where you use your phone but that literally never happened to me. Honestly, none of the issues you mentioned have been a problem for me. Maybe take better care of your stuff?
Or, and bear with me here, I’ll keep using my devices how I want, as I’ve found a perfectly good strategy for not breaking a 3.5mm male jack in the socket? Most of the times I have had to deal with this issue in this millennium, I haven’t even been the culprit.
Yeah, no. If a company makes shitty products, I’ll keep pointing it out.
And I’ll keep telling you that nobody really cares, most of your arguments are moot, and your opinion is not that of the vast majority.
Also, there are fewer and fewer phones with a headphone jack every year.
I wonder how that could be /s
Cheap and expensive. So no, price has nothing to dp with this.
It started with flagships IIRC, sure it may have trickled down into other segments.
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Technology evolves?
You need an extra clump of stuff in your pocket that’s terribly unreliable now or your top shelf standard audio equipment now needs replaced by our branded earbuds that sound terrible. PROGRESS.
This isn’t progress. This is forced obsolescence. Literally everything about it is worse. I can put my phone in a plastic baggie when it’s raining, but I’m not carrying around an extra fucking DAC/amp everywhere. I just have to deal with crappy wireless earbuds.
your top shelf standard audio equipment now needs replaced by our branded earbuds
What company does this? I keep hearing the argument, but I have no clue who it is.
I haven’t found a phone my Jabra headsets couldn’t connect to. Only my ps4, but that is not really part of this discussion.
Thank you!
Much appreciated, unironically. All hail the fedi!
You know the kind of guy who writes nothing but bad things and troll comments, and then wonders why his life sucks? Well… that was me. Every time something good happened to me, something bad was always waiting around the corner. Karma. That’s when I realised I had to change. So, I switched from reddit and joined the fediverse. I’m just trying to be a better person. My name is
Earlbigdanishguy.We need to be better, reddit can go suck a donkey, but if we want this to be a viable alternative down the road, we need to be better. Calling each other out on bull shit behavior is warranted from time to time.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://m.piped.video/watch?v=9-nezImUP0w
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Get over it, gramps 🤣
If my FP4 dies in the next year, I will fix it. Because iFixit gave it 10/10.
The number of comment that says " I would buy one, but" is amazing !
What this company is doing is what every company should do, from laptop to tablet. As well as tractors. Dot being able to repair what you buy is fundamentally flawed!
TBF it’s not available in the USA, and a lot of us are in the USA…plus even if we got one, a lot of the bands wouldn’t work, so it’s not like you’d have a good connection with it.
This is the reason why I never bought an Asus phone despite hating our primary options in the US (Samsung, Apple, Google) and really wanting one. It seems most manufacturers forget that T-mobile bands exist despite them being nearly tied for #2 in marketshare in the US.
Yea so many damn good phones basically are useless here in the states. It sucks.
How tragic. I’m sorry. As a dirty Yuropoor I’ll buy one in your place and enjoy it for you.
Please do lol, I’d love to own one but it’d be a wifi brick at best here state side.
It’s compatible with most of T-Mobile bands.
Unfortunately T-Mobile is really crap in most of the USA outside of major cities. I’m basically in a dead zone with T-Mobile in my town. ATT isn’t much better and Verizon is the best but both are still lacking… literally dropped calls in some areas.
That sucks when you are stuck in an area like that. I’ve had t-mo for about 15 years now and they’ve been great and have solid coverage everywhere I’ve been in and outside the state. Verizon really is a better option for more rural locations though generally. I had them for a little while when T-Mo didn’t have great coverage where I was. And I really dislike ATT so they were a hard pass lol
That’s the biggest thing for me. If I can get a similar phone to work in the US with no stability or functional compromises, I’m happy.
“Not available” in a given country doesn’t really mean anything these days. You can buy anything online and get it shipped anywhere. The question I have is does it work on American wireless networks? Because if it does, you can figure out how to acquire a phone…
You’re right, it is amazing. These people are giving honest constructive criticism of a product. Companies often have to pay money to get that information. These complaints are generally valid as well.
The company’s commitment to repairability is commendable but it’s in lieu of other important factors. If I have to make the choice between having the newer OS with stronger, more powerful hardware or the ability to repair my device I’m going to choose the former every time. From the get-go the device might last longer simply because I won’t want to get rid of it as quickly. The 5 is of course a significant improvement over previous releases but it’s still behind. If they can deliver a device that is not immediately outdated in comparison to other phones of similar price then this would be a no brainer for me and likely others as well.
Similarly availability is another major factor. You can’t buy what you can’t get your hands on. Even more importantly it’s even more futile to buy one for a network that doesn’t support it at all. Obviously the creators just aren’t ready to expand into another market and that’s fine but it doesn’t make the criticism any less important for their mission.
For the same price, a Fair Phone is always going to be outdated. They can’t scale as much as the big manufacturers can and they (are trying to) avoid slave labor etc.
It’s simply not possible to be as cheap as the others who do everything to be as cheap as can be.
Framework ship laptops to Australia and has a headphone socket. Great company. Great products. Great experience, highly recommend. I can’t recommend products that don’t sell and support in my market. I don’t have any loyalty to Fairphones or Steamdecks or any other product from low effort companies that don’t ship beyond NA or Europe.
Yet they don’t sell in the USA, and they don’t have a headphone jack. A company meant for repairability and reliability not having a headphone jack. That’s like when framework removed it from the 16 inch laptop.
I don’t think your comparison to Framework is justified since 1) they made a headphone jack expansion module that’s available along with all the other ports and 2) the Framework 16 has 6 expansion bays instead of 4. If you need a headphone jack you get a 25% increase in configurable ports, and if you don’t need one you get a 50% increase in ports. Plus, you can easily switch between those two cases.
- that is a solution to a problem nobody wanted.
- Technically 5 if you’re using one of them for the headphone jack (which you wouldn’t need if it was included on the device ready). Also the one with 4 already has a headphone jack included, so you’d still have 4 available ports.
And 3.
They’re small and I could lose it and would have to spend even more money for a replacement.
As soon as my FP 3 dies they will hopefully have a new phone with a headphone jack. In 10 years or so.
Don’t forget to let them know that at the various consumer surveys they send regularly. But I wouldn’t hold my breath…
Honestly I’d probably buy a phone without a camera before I’d buy a phone without a headphone jack.
I was sold on the idea of a fairphone but that’s a dealbreaker to me. I very briefly owned a phone without a headphone jack (borrowed from a friend while my current one was in repair), having to think of that stupid adapter all the time was hell.
Can’t you leave the adapter on the heatphone cable?
I have 2 main problems with that:
- My headphone cable is long and sometimes it gets tangled in all sorts of places. The adapters are small and flimsy, if I leave them on the cable I assume they’ll break soon. I have no problems with a broken headphone cable as it is an easy and cheap fix. I don’t think the adapters are seriously fixable tho.
- Everything else uses a headphone jack everywhere. I have yet to see a use for USB-C to audio jack anywhere else. Which makes sense as USB is digital and audio is analog. I assume many people have no use for headphones outside of their phones, I am not one of those people.
Yeah, that’s what I really don’t get about all the people in this thread. No matter how many headphones you have, the adapter is like 10$ at most. Just get as many as you need to always have one where you need it
I don’t intend on turning this into some sort of fight but to me your comment has big
“I don’t see the problem why can’t other people just have enough money”
vibes (Also I checked and an adapter costs me 12$ on Amazon). I don’t think you intended it this way, so I’ll shut up now.
As to my actual answer:
- Leaving it on headphones is not an option to me (I explained it above)
- Buying one for every jacket might work, but what do I do in summer?
- Please correct me on this but afaik it’s not standardized
- USB output is usually digital, while headphone obviously require an analog signal. I assume the vendors just use certain pins in the USB jack for transmitting the analog signal while keeping the rest grounded.
- I know for certain that Samsung adapters don’t work on OnePlus phones for example.
I could go on, but there’s honestly no point. We’re different people with different uses for our phones/headphones. I won’t buy a phone without a headphone jack as long as I still have wired headphones.
Adapters are literally <5 USD including shipping on AliExpress. At that point it’s not about the price if you’re buying a phone anyways, because the cheap phones haven’t abandoned the aux jack.
Also the digital usb adapters should work on any phone (and computer), unlike the “dumb” ones that trigger the DAC inside the phone (if there is one).
I would buy one in a heartbeat if it was smaller… My S22 barely fits in my pants pocket, and barely usable with one hand.
Still waiting for compact phones to return…RIP sony xperia
Same. I got a fairphone 4 after my beloved one plus X which was the perfect size… I just dont use a big part of my screen
The OnePlus X is such a beautiful phone. Sadly there’s no ROM left that’s being maintained.
Ye, latest rom i found back then was a lineageos rom that was android 11, june 2022 release iirc ( or 2021? ). It was awesome and worked great. Alas, after 8 years it is now my spare phone incase of issues :)
S10e forever.
People just don’t seem to buy compact phones. The IPhone mini was a flop.
My daughter really loves my old S10e. Apart from the dwindling battery life, it’s still an awesome phone, capable of taking beautiful photos.
Yeah it’s a shame the processor also wasn’t that power efficient yet. The new Snapdragon Gen2 would bring insane battery life to small phones.
I laughed when I saw the size of it. It’s the same size as the S23 ultra…
I have an S21 Ultra, so the size doesn’t bother me too much. But the Fair phone is objectively a worse device on every level. I want something S23 nonplus non ultra sized if I’m going for an average long lasting daily phone.
The Zenfone line is your best bet for a compact phone today. I switched from the LG V60 to the Zenfone 10 when it came out and it’s no contest. I loved my V60 but its laughably massive to me now
RIP sony xperia? I just got a Sony Xperia 5 V and it’s a great phone. Maybe a bit tall but the width makes it very comfortable to use with one hand.
I want the headphone jack back.
Lack of one is an immediate showstopper for me, too.
Genuinely curious, is it the lack of Bluetooth earphones? I can’t remember the last time I saw someone using wired earphones
It was definitely a showstopper when Apple first did it because most people were still using wired earphones, but these days everything is wireless
Not who you asked, but I also refuse to buy a phone without a headphone jack. I am constantly listening to music/podcasts/audiobooks on my phone while out and greatly prefer using wired headphones over wireless for a number of reasons-
-Bluetooth can be finicky in connection. No matter the pair I’ve used, just the act of walking can make the connection falter at times and there’s no way to fix it
-Bluetooth headphones have a much worse cost/performance ratio than wired when it comes to sound quality.
-I use the mic when taking calls and even a cheap wired mic is dramatically better than any bluetooth one
-Wired headphones don’t have a battery. This is huge for me. I hate, hate, hate it when caught out and my headphones run out of battery. Additionally, batteries put a life span on electronics that I like not having to think about with my headphones.
-Simplicity. If I want to use my headphones, I plug them in. If I don’t, I unplug them. I can quickly switch to a new device when I want to use them on something else. I don’t have to think about what they are paired with at any time or fiddle with it when swapping devices
-Small case, but I like that when I need to take my headphones out for a bit, I can just ease one out and leave it wrapped around my ear rather than deal with the case just to talk to a cashier
Absolutely that, confirm as OP.
No, it’s because of batteries. At least for me. We’re creating more ewaste by shoving Bluetooth earbuds down our throats due to no headphone jack.
Edit: Currently rocking the Pixel 7 Pro, and once I’m done with this phone (I hope to have it for at least 4 more years), I hope Sony still has headphone jacks on their phones. Since that’s what I’ll most likely go for.
My $350 Motorola phone has a headphone jack and an SD slot. And apparently superior build quality from what I’ve seen of my girlfriend’s and coworker’s P7s.
I too can vouch for Motorola. I have the 200$ G31 and it’s got a headphone jack and micro-sd-slot. I’m very pleased with its quality and performance so far, and hope it lasts some years to come.
Honestly I feel that.
Same here. I work long shifts and know that some 200MAh batteries aren’t going to cut it for long before being thrown in the trash. I have some nice BT headphones that I use at home or on flights but my primary pair are still wired.
For me it’s mostly two major reasons: Security and ease of use.
I don’t leave Bluetooth turned on unless I actively need it.
And wireless headphones are just one more thing to charge. I’ve tried them. It ended up more of a hassle than just…plugging in a wire.
Oh okay. For me, the hassle of coiling the wires and resolving knots was infinitely greater than keeping track of the limited battery life of my earbuds
One of the best headphones I’ve ever used had magnets in the buds which basically eliminated tangles completely. Highly recommend sport earbuds with magnets.
The delay inherent to bluetooth headphones is unbearable for me
Also, you know, wired headphones don’t have batteries
BT delay is such a pain in games. And honestly for me not needing fucking batteries for every damn device in my life is a highly preferred feature. Fucking hate that every device has a separate time limit that I have to keep track of.
I could plug a MIDI keyboard to my Galaxy Note 9, play it on FL Studio Mobile and send the audio to a mixer
I use wired headphones and I use an aux jack in my car. I have a set of BT ones I use if i’m walking around but if I’m stationary (which is the case 90% of the time I’m using my phone) wired is better. Better sound, no battery to worry about failing, no BT delay turning everything you watch into a shitty dub.
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Yes agreed. The headphone jack is a perfected technology. If a device does not have a headphone jack I am not buying it. Full stop.
For me it’s the micro SD card. Which the FP5 has… but I use my phone for emulators, and their phones aren’t as powerful as I would need. Also, they don’t sell in the US, so I couldn’t use it even if I wanted.
I would buy one if they shipped globally and it was about 100-150€ cheaper. The specs are not worth 700€. I would also need official GrapheneOS support as well.
The specs are not worth 700€
That’s what those specs are worth if everyone who’s part of it gets compensated for their work appropriately.
Imagine the price of a Galaxy S23 if Samsung actually was fair to everyone involved.
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It wasn’t free. You paid for it
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Someone gifted you a phone and you are not paying them money at all?
They’re probably talking about mommy and daddy that got them the phone. Which is why they’re responding like a 5 year old.
That is no way to insult a five year old!
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Agree with the message but not with the tone. I buy used phones from eBay and they are awesome. Like $100 for a newish device.
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Yeah it’s just crazy watching you be ableist as if you have a point
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Since I can’t get the Fairphone in the US, I got a Pixel 7a for $350. It’s not as repairable as my ancient 3a, but if it lasts 7 years like the 3a, I’ll have gotten my money’s worth.
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I really like the idea of these phones and I’d really buy one of my employer wasn’t providing me a phone and allowing me to use it for my private stuff.
Of course, it might be expensive for the hardware, but just look at the price of a non repairable and non ethical iPhone.
I’d jump on the Fairphone first thing if not having a single tie to an advertising/tracking company was an option. But here we are.
Also when visiting Fairphone forums, I get “This community is not accessible in your location.”
It is still a business and a business is gonna business, thus never gonna be as ethical as one would want.
Well I would buy the Murena version of the Fairphone. The one with /e/os installed. Apparently everything works on it, without google learning too much about you.
Sounds like a your country issue.
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I would recommend getting a personal device. Using employer-owned devices for private use is a liability to both yourself and your employer, and it’s exposing yourself to serious breaches by your employer.
Thanks for the advice, but I’ve already thought about it a lot and I see more advantages than inconveniences. But if course I agree with you about the risks involved.
I wouldn’t say the Fairphone 5 wins prizes for looks or functionality but it does show that it is entirely possible to make a phone with a replaceable battery and repairable components in a modern form factor. If they, a small boutique phone maker can do it, then there is absolutely no excuse that Apple, Samsung, Oppo etc. cannot do the same.
One failing of Fairphone is you cannot buy the mainboard (the core component) from their store. All the other components yes, but not the mainboard. The core is not just the CPU, flash but also some other things like microphone are on it. It would also be nice if people could order all the parts that make up a Fairphone 5 and assemble one entirely from scratch.
I’ve also read through their ethics / green reports in the past, and while it talks it up with “supply chain engagement” reports and so on, most of their components are still made to order by Chinese OEMs so how far does it go down the chain in reality.
One failing of Fairphone is you cannot buy the mainboard (the core component) from their store. All the other components yes, but not the mainboard. The core is not just the CPU, flash but also some other things like microphone are on it. It would also be nice if people could order all the parts that make up a Fairphone 5 and assemble one entirely from scratch.
good point. with the mainboard available they would be on Framework’s level and that would be amazing
then there is absolutely no excuse that Apple, Samsung, Oppo etc. cannot do the same.
There is an excuse: it costs them money. If you can easily and cheaply repair your phone, you won’t buy a new one.
greed isn’t an excuse. Oh, sorry I was late but I have a good excuse: I’m lazy
“Sorry I’m late, it’s because of who I am as a person” is my usual reason.
Yes my apologies. I gave a really good excuse though gestures to self in the general
Technical excuse I meant.
Oh I know. But there is no technical excuse and they know it.
Few comments here that id like feedback from somebody, if possible :
- fairphone does not sell mainboards seperately because things like the phone imei is linked to it, which in itself is often linked to the mobile provider. Changing this isnt always allowed, depending on the country/state/whatever
- afaik they do still order from china oems, but i think they choose parts that are certified to not be made with childlabor, unethical stuff etc etc. If it is like that, nobody knows. Thats the problem with the whole fight against unethical stuff
this is great! i have a friend who needs a new phone and is ordering one, and i’m gonna get my hands on it to help him out and eventually flashing LineageOS on it if it comes out
i just wish they complied with the android stack security features so that it would be compatible with GrapheneOS. it would be the perfect phone
For real, we need more phones that are compatible with GrapheneOS. Going to Google for THE De-googled phone is nothing shy of extremely ironic and borderline hypocritical.
Most importantly - more such phones that are affordable. Even specifics like giant size aside, the only Pixel I can afford is the one that is either not supported or close to the end of support. Also they’re not even officially available here, which seems to be a common problem.
I want a fucking headphone jack, thanks. Also 3 full size USB ports, a physical keyboard and a inch-thick battery, because fuck you.
Still no 3.5mm jack, still no dice for me.
I don’t like it (that’s why I keep a Galaxy S9) but that ship has sailed.
I’ve got a Galaxy S9!
Same, terrible shame too
Just get a dongle.
I like the Fairphone 5 but €40 for a case is unforgivable.
I’m feeling like it’s a gouge because they know not many (if any) 3rd party cases exist.
If you look at other recyclable or sustainable phone cases it’s not actually that much expensive. It seems unreasonably priced if you compare them to cases that are not at all eco friendly.
I have already made that comparison, and still have found it double the price of other cases that you describe.
Cases from recycled materials should be cheaper, as they are don’t having to purchase virgin material, not more expensive.
Anyone charging a premium for recycled material products is usually targeting and taking advantage of ‘green’ customers.
The ability to recycle most plastics in 2023 is pretty standard unless they’re overly cleaning or bleaching the material, in which case it is no longer environmentally friendly.
Hey now, you’re looking at this all wrong: if you break your phone because you didn’t have a case on, it should be easily fixable! ;-)
When i got my FP4 I 3D printed my case with some flexable filament. Once the price went town (and the first case was full of full of dirt and dog food) I bought a cheaper one.
Hitting the dirt and dog food goal really is the biggest factor for case replacement in my house.
Yah, it was a bad print with very porous layers, but it worked… For a while
I would totally buy one if they brought it to the US.
