So, human rights stuff aside, how/why the fuck do we need a genderised solitaire?
Its a free card game with paid or grind to get skins. One of those skins is a rainbow camelion.
Because the dev wanted to make it and other people wanted to play it.
I wonder if the same people who say Steam should pull out of Russia would agree that Steam should also pull out from the US. I mean, that’s what should happen given the basis of the arguments being used, right?
If the US opposes values Valve has then they should.
I’m not going to pretend Valve cares about these causes though.
Yes. Maybe then people will blame the ones actually responsible. If it makes overthrowing a magat government more likely, it’s good on principle
Which steam games have been removed by the US government?
There was the whole thing about payment processors raising a stink because of Steam, which is comparable and I have no evidence Dementia Don simps were not somehow involved, since this was started via some republican christofascist Karen association. But even if that does not suffice it for you, I’m not wondering about to the present situation, I’m wondering about the situation of when (not if) it happens in the future.
That was done by Australians and had nothing to do with the US government. Stick to the facts.
Wat?
Well the US is kinda preparing for war with a foreign nation under false pretenses rn. Venezuela specifically.
And the whole thing where they are trying to dial back rights for everyone but rich white men.
Well definitely that too, I just mentioned the part that’s also the pretense in case of Russia. Of course Russia is also trying to dial back rights for everyone but rich men (white is default there anyway).
I can actually say I’m not in the US market myself, largely because of the recent developments - there’s a type of incredibly niche enterprise-focused software for a particular industry in the US market only, that I’m very familiar with, could (with help of course) build a significantly better competitor than any of the incumbents, and best of all, the current players all are incredibly expensive, so I could charge half, or even less, and have no trouble paying staff. But I’m just not doing it, despite it being a potential ticket to becoming a multimillionaire later in life.
Trouble is, among the people I’d have to move to the US with myself, and whose help I’d like in the project (so family members who’d live with me and potential engineers to help me), there are some women and LGBTQ folk. We’re all white so ICE isn’t as much of an issue as it would be for someone of darker complexion, but the whole eroding women’s and LGBTQ folks’ rights issue would be a problem for those close to me, therefore a problem for me.
To be fair, it would’ve been extremely challenging anyway. I have connections in the target industry and I’ve worked towards building an MVP, but the financial aspect of it all is problematic. Money to get certified for a bunch of things, money to hire people because one man can never do everything alone, etc. Can’t get small business loans in the US as a foreigner anymore, etc.
I mean, yeah, but what is the one of a billion things venilia is talking about was my question
Just inspecting the double standard often seen in issues like these. Russia bad Amerikkka good etc.
Ok but what is the specific comparison? Russia is to banning LGBTQ games as the us is to banning ___ games?
Have you seen the news the last year? Pretty much all companies are cozy now with the Dementia Don administration banning LGBTQ stuff noticeably past simply “games”.
So you don’t have a concrete example? That’s fine, but people having vibes about what’s going on at any given moment without being able to find a concrete example is literally how maga happened.
Surprised to not see it linked. Warning: despite being free, recent reviews point out how they’re pushing a monthly subscription to get all the cosmetics.
no good sides huh
It’s called “complying with the law”.
Strange then that Google and Apple didn’t take it down. Valve made a choice and not a good one.
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Your choice as Valve here is to either delist or not be in Russia. It is easy for me, as someone not in Russia, to cheer Valve to fight the good fight. But, it would suck if I were in Russia and suddenly lost access to my games.
This is the most sane take I’ve seen. It’s honestly weird how ignorant this thread is, regional censorship is not new. Australia has a habit of banning violent games. The Middle East and China have a habit of censoring all sorts of things. Many countries have their own laws of what is and isn’t okay and they fluctuate all the time. My friend in Germany couldn’t play Wolfenstein because any games with Nazi imagery were illegal until relatively recently.
Literally every company that operates in those countries also censor their stuff. The only reason this article exists is because [thing but Russia] gets more clicks and outrage compared to [thing in fifty other countries]. You’re free to hate Steam for it but this isn’t weird or exclusive behavior. They’re running a business.
It’s almost always wrong, and businesses should pull out of those places. I hope they pull out of my country if they pull similar shit. If you support bad values, you should be punished. And if losing their games makes people finally overthrow the magats, then that must be done
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Yeah, I don’t know why it’s news at all. It happens in every other country with any amount of censorship, US included.
If America does this shit, they should pull out of here too
By this logic since you disapprove of the actions of Valve then you should not use it if were an existing user and not start if you’re not.
But, it would suck if I were in Russia and suddenly lost access to my games.
Another reason not to rely on steam as a central point of failure.
Not a defense, but aren’t a lot of the steam games at least runnable without the front end?
Not as much as GOG obviously, but some ?
Lots of indie games yes, but not so many of the AAAs
Afaik no. Some games will run with steam open in offline mode without an internet connection but that’s about it.
All the games will run in offline mode, unless they specifically require the steam services to start, like anticheat and stuff. It’s a gamedev decision, not Valve’s
I play online games since counterstrike 1.4 came out. If russians lose access to online games, it would make every online game in europe better. It sucks for them, but maybe they need their own servers so they can be toxic to themselves.
People downvoting here probably don’t realize how toxic Russian youth can be. They’re a product of their environment and oh boy the environment is shit.
It’s just sad.
These comments are shit. Who said that you should comply with Russia’s laws???
People who love valve more than human rights
Money, I guess. GabeN needed a new yatch
Why the fuck is Steam still in Russia?
Why are they still in America?
CSGO trolls from Russia probably make up like 20% of their total revenue.
For the rubles, of course.
💲💲💲
Gabe needs НКВД money.
“Non-traditional”? Homosexuality has been around and recorded since the Romans and even prior. 2000+ years isn’t traditional? That’s just as long as Christianity.
Non-traditional as to the religion. Orthodox catholic church is fucked up in head, and lately been standing on a wrong side of many things. Even going so far to in-fight with each other for their statements. They are like The Mouth of Sauron - they preach on behalf of government and lately it feels that they spit to vile shit out of their mouth just to please their government.
It’s a dictatorship. It’s not logic. Fuck the Kremlin.
It was illegal in the UK till the mid 60s, Russia is still holding out
Nah, they actively got worse as authoritarian governments are wont to do.
What’s the alternative? They have to obey the law, right? What should they have done? How is this “bowing to Kremlin” as if they’re kneeling, waiting to suck their dick or something.
Genuinely curious about these questions.
Because MS, Epic and Sony are scared shitless that valve will dominate gaming market after major hardware announcement and had begun digging dirt on them.
Only in last 2 weeks there been like 3 “major” anti Valve news. I find them to be astroturfing. All these news are nothingburgers.
My tinfoil shines on top of my head
You know what, I believe that. 👌 Wouldn’t at all be surprised.
Pull out.
Yes, I’d still say this if it was America
What would that accomplish though?
The alternative is to stop doing business with Russia.
They can be part of the problem, or part of the solution.
They chose the problem.
The alternative is to stop doing business in places where laws are being used to restrict the games available.
Don’t get me wrong, fuck the russian government and the horse they rode in on, but unless you have a defend-able reason that russia should be singled out in this context your argument is emotional rhetoric and little else.
You could perhaps narrow that down to a subset of applicable laws, but i’d lay good money that any group/type of laws you pick are not go only contain russia and still be able to be considered a reasonable argument.
The alternative is to stop doing business in places where laws are being used to restrict the games available.
Incorrect. You are completely ignoring what those restrictions are.
I detailed my thoughts and arguments, feel free to address those directly.
if you want to ignore most of the reply to argue against a stance i wasn’t taking there’s not much of a conversation to be had here.
I don’t see how it advances any objective like Ukraine or identity politics issue by Valve not being in Russia. On the contrary, the more people buy from valve puts currency strain on Russia and exports western culture to them.
How is valve doing business with Russia? Are they selling games to the government? Games are for the public, right? The public isn’t at war, Putin is.
Let me know if this is a bad take, what am I missing.
I’d assume the argument is the same kind of one made for sanctions, you restrict the interaction with the country to indicate you are displeased with some action(s) that government has taken.
It’s not a good argument , mind you.
Okay, yeah, I see what you mean.
Yeah, I dunno, I think I don’t feel like it’s the most effective way to fight the war machine, to restrict non-enlisted from playing games lol. They are giving money to Valve anyway. Not being able to buy games wouldn’t affect someone negatively, I feel. If anything it might make them richer and more productive. 😅
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‘This isn’t “wokeness”, it’s basic human rights and equality and nothing more,’ he added. ‘If Steam can’t support free speech of LGBTQ+ people, then at the very least they should be transparent about this.’
What a bizarre response. Neither Roskomnadzor nor Valve claimed this had anything to do with “‘wokeness,’” and Steam was in fact transparent about this.
I don’t really get what anyone expects Valve to do here other than comply with the law. Still, I’m surprised they’re even able to operate in Russia given all the sanctions.
Pulling out of Russia entirely is an option. It’s not like they’re relying on them to stay in business.
Well, given the sanctions, this ought to be a given. I don’t understand how valve can operate in Russia at all tbh.
Right? That was my question, why are they operating there at all right now
Valve had a big piracy problem in russia and it was ofc because of service issues. While I obviously don’t agree with this censorship and would prefer valve to entirely pull out of russia, I can see why they are absolutely not doing that. They want to provide the best PC gaming store service across the world, and they don’t want competitors or piracy to eat into their sales
The sanctions did impact Steam’s operations in Russia. Russian users currently can’t use any payment methods to buy games aside from Steam Wallet funds.
Then yeah, I’m surprised valve is cooperating. I suppose they are planning for the future, should the sanctions end.
It is, but the alternative is that everything would get pirated instead. And like Trump, Russia is fishing for a “woke” escape goat to continue to come up with excuses to shut down exposure outside of the state controlled media, which Steam provides.
If Steam goes out of Russia, there will be a state sanctioned pirate streaming service for games, and it will include spyware. Steam isn’t just one entity, it is an entity for every country it decides to operate in.
Still, I’m not going to complete defend Valve on this, but at least they aren’t pulling a “many gamers complained about this and we listened” card. They also didn’t remove the game from the store in its entirely just because Russia was complaining, but limited access to it locally.
Maybe Valve should get out of Russia, but I don’t see this negatively affecting Russians as much as it will make the bubble they live in even more closed off. VPNs would be an alternative if Russia wasn’t criminalizing them.
Imagine all the “Valve could pull out of {country} next!” headlines that would never end
Pull out. And the same every country, including the one we both live in if need be
They could just not comply? What’s Russia gonna do, nuke Gaben’s yacht?
There’s a thin red line that tie both Putin’s oligarchs and Trump’s oligarchs: “wokeness” is a concept fabricated by the latter but is completely compliant with Russian’s 2006 federal law. They can’t formalized that freedom of people doesn’t matter, they need to make-up a blurry concept of “tradition” and a vague concept of something that may corrupt the aforementioned joke (“traditional values”: the one between the traditional human ape rape cave and matrimonial rites after human ape pack raided another pack and took their females)
I mean on the literal level, “‘wokeness’” was used quotatively by Masters, as though somebody else had actually said that exact word. This is what strikes me as bizarre.
But also, the ‘woke’ thing is a new layer to the culture war that emerged in the late '10s. It was precipitated by similar disagreements over issues of social justice and affirmative action, of course, but not to the same extent or precision. However, Russia is acting consistently with how they acted a decade ago. So this is my weak argument that ‘wokeness’ is indeed not relevant here even in concept.
They ignored (legitimate) youth protection laws long enough, they could ignore this one, too.
? Curious, any good places to look into this?
I don’t really get what anyone expects Valve to do here other than comply with the law.
Lol.
Are you sure about that? Apple.
Google, fair enough, but I don’t know to what extent they actually do business in Russia. Can you buy a pixel in Russia?
You couldn’t buy a Pixel in Russia even before the sanctions.
Google did pause most of their Russian business. They don’t pay YouTube creators, don’t allow Google Play purchases, and while Google Workspace is available, it’s only with a non-Russian payment method. All the free online stuff is available same as before. They don’t comply with Roskomnadzor’s requests for content takedowns as far as I know (I might be wrong since I moved out of Russia and stopped paying close attention to it).
But in the end, it all comes down to business. Apple sells their devices through “unofficial retailers” that were pretty official before sanctions. They have a much stronger business presence there. Google doesn’t, and they don’t have as much to lose so they can afford this PR stunt. I’m certain that if Google’s Russian business was stronger, they wouldn’t be so uncompromising.
I can’t answer if Pussiansinten can buy a pixel or not. But I guess even Tim Cook needs НКВД money.
This sucks.
However, I think it is important for Steam to continue operating in Russia: by seeing the living standards of other people across the world, younger Russians will develop those same expectations. Everyday things like furnishings, food, how people treat each other, and so forth. When the Russia we know dies, it will be important for the Russians of the future to have ideas and desires to drive them forward. Also, Russian authorities won’t be able to fully inspect ALL media for LGBTQ+, which means that people will see something that they “shouldn’t”.
In the long run, the media that people consume will determine how they feel their nation should become. It is my hope that Putin’s Russia will die in the coming years, and a better nation born from the ashes.
This is a very naive and ignorant take. In the major cities, quality of life is on part with EU for many.
Furthermore, even with demographic splits (e.g. russians aged 18-24, urban russians), all major demographic groups show at least strong majority support for chauvinism, authoritarianism and genocidal imperialism.
There are some variations of course. But it’s more along the lines of overwhelming/near absolute majority support (e.g 50+) or strong majority support (18-34). You also find interesting variantions where “middle age” segments tend to be less supportive (on a relative basis, the segment as whole still shows strong majority support) of genocidal imperialism than young adults/early middle age (18-34); likely because they have more to lose.
Russians have the capability to build a better future for themselves (without invasions), they just don’t want to because they haven’t gotten a taste of their own medicine (where they are treated like they treat others).
EU is massive in enabling this attitude. Consider the fact that Merkel, even from retirement, is promoting russian genocidal imperialism by claiming that Poland and the Baltic nation are responsible for the full scale invasion:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/10/06/angela-merkel-poland-baltics-blame-ukraine-war/
When it’s the russians and putin (a symptom, with the cause being russians) who are to blame for their own invasion.
What Steam should do, and what every other country and business should do is leave russia (and israel etc etc etc). They should completely stop importing or exporting until that country starts to play nice with others.
The. Fucking. End.
If they are invading/causing genocide/generally be cunts then 100% ignore and sanction that country. Nothing in, nothing out. Physically or digitally. Nothing. Fuck 'em until they stop being scummy pieces of shit.It won’t happen, obviously, because nearly every politician and upper corporate ghouls are corrupt. But that’s what should happen.
I think that is the wrong approach. North Korea is the result of what you advocate for, a people who do not know the possibility of other lifestyles. The complete isolation of a country is similar to locking up a child in a basement: It corrodes the mind and prevents escape for something better.
This isn’t to say that Russia, Israel, nor North Korea shouldn’t be impacted by their harmful characters. Instead, they should be treated like post-WW2 Japan, where outsiders force reforms. In Japan’s case, that was the dismantling of mega-corporation zaibatsu, ensuring democratic voting, removing previous leadership, reconstruction programs, and so forth.
It isn’t much different from tending a garden, where you both help and harm to ensure that the best plants get ahead of weeds.
Of course, none of that is possible against a nuclear power, because it first relies on unconditional surrender. I also don’t think any leaders in the world have to political will to do that, either.
IMO, the key points for handling a nuclear power is two or three things:
1: Identify potential replacement of leadership, who would be open to negotiation. They just need to see value in having dealings with other powers. It could be a gift, political legitimacy, or the threat of being removed from the census.
2: Collaborate with “outside” powers to cushion the repercussions of removing the target country’s inconvenient leadership. For example, offering aid to civilians, moving military forces around to increase or ease tension, establishing narratives, ect.
3: The actual removal of the existing leadership. Trump sent a special forces team into North Korea. That was stupid, but a carefully planned operation with a genuine goal, such as eliminating the Kim family, might work out. This assumes that China is participating, as the northern border is probably less secure against intrusion. At this point, China probably doesn’t want North Korea around, because Kim could point a missile at someplace unwanted, and unprompted.
I am not saying it to be easy, it is more about leaders having enough guts and foresight to consider such measures. Putin’s Russia certainly does some of this, considering the shadow fleets, hacking, and influencer operations. Krasnov is an example of removing leadership without even involving blood, by influencing politics from afar.
Yes, those things can be done, and they’re good ideas. One key difference between the U.S. and North Korea thing is that Russia can, or at least is believed to be able to, use a nuclear response anywhere in the world. North Korea couldn’t threaten the U.S. with nuclear reprisal. But, yes, removing the entrenched and uncompromising leader is the first step, and that is much harder against a nuclear power.
Considering the horrid state of economics and corruption in Russia, it is doubtful that their nuclear stockpile and submarines are fit for the job. Honestly, I think North Korea might have more reliable nukes, even if it is less than a handful. With Russia, it would be a fusion roulette.
I honestly agree, and said as much shortly after the invasion of Ukraine. Based on the world’s assessment, they should have just steamrolled them, and didn’t. I also said it would behoove the world powers to reassess their nuclear capability and got a lot of downvotes. The facts as they stand now, though, is the NK can’t get a nuke to American territory, not even Alaska (let’s not talk about Guam and Samoa, even America barely acknowledges they’re part of America). Russia, on the other hand, might be able to, and we don’t know for sure they can’t. All they need is one good sub with working missiles. None of this really matters for Europe, and even 10% of their stockpile working would be devastating for the world, or at least the people living on it. I’d like to think that Putin put more effort into maintaining their status as a nuclear world power, but I would have thought the same of being a military world power, too.
Everyday things like furnishings, food, how people treat each other, and so forth.
Russia is not a post-apocalyptic hellscape (yet). They have pretty much the same food and furnishing as anyone else in the west. And learning about how people across the world treat each other from video games sounds like a horrible idea.
Russians have been consuming US culture slop for a long while. Turns out, it doesn’t help.
there’s also a troubling trend in the gaming industry for the very most right wing propaganda to be promoted and pushed alongside gaming content. steam is not the true exposure to liberating ideology that will wake the chauvinists up. far more likely to make them go, “see, this is how the world works.”
A: Videogames are not just made by the US. As it turns out, Europe, Asia, Africa, and many other places create stuff. It is a way for people to explore other cultures, without needing a plane ticket nor permission from governments.
B: Russia isn’t known for its general prosperity for the ordinary person. Also, it is in a state of war, which means less of everything that people like. Constant reminders of what isn’t there, may speed an end to Russia’s aggression. Hopefully, things will go Nepalese.
C: Be it books, games, or movies, the fundamental crux in many of them revolves around the interactions of people. A major element of videogames is helping out people and being helped in turn, trading things, meeting folks with different ideas and appearances, ect. These are good things for people to learn.
When “the right thing to do” enters in conflict with “what maximises profits”, businesses almost always pick the later.
What makes this decision particularly stark is the response from other tech giants. The same censorship notice was sent to Apple and Google, as the game has been available on their Russian mobile stores since 2020. Both companies reportedly ignored the request, leaving Flick Solitaire available for download.
It’s a matter of relative power.
I mean, if you want to operate in a country, you follow their laws when in the country?
How about having some fucking backbone?
That’s how to cease operating in a country.
Valve should cease operating in Russia.
Also, Valve with every other company should already have been ordered to stop operating in Russia by their respective countries.
That just fucks over gamers, not the Russian government.
An angry enough people overthrows their government. Depriving the people will get them closer to that
I don’t disagree.
So?
It’s not as simple as about backbone. I agree that ethics are a good reason to stop doing business with an individual but if a company like Valve were to pull out of every country based on ethical matters, they’d need to found their own country.
Not every country wants people like me dead.
Not every country has decent civic rights. Yet Steam doesn’t operate in only 4 and these are the ones US has issued a ban to trade with.
And as we are on topic of pulling out of operating in Russia, many western companies did so, yet since initial “withdrawal” in 2022 some had reinstated their businesses. And noone is taking about it. 🤷
We should absolutely talk about it
Would that really be a bad thing?
Steam is one service Russians can’t easily replace. If their backwards policies prevent it from operating there, maybe they would take steps to change them.
If they don’t like it, they can leave Russia.
Generally yes, but legality is not ethics.
Where do you draw that line?
Start here?
Okay, we’ll impose Canadian morals, ethics and laws across the world. /s
Canada’s are mostly good so that would be fine
I’d argue imposing your view onto others is not good.
Good luck I guess? I was talking about the topic at hand. But the idea that you fucking Canucks are imperialist bastards is not a surprise.
K buddy.
I agree with folks that they should just pull out of the country and tell customers its because of their countries laws preventing them from doing business there.
Takes games put in cart for black Friday sale out of cart. Goes outside instead.
