All our coffee is served with two shots by default. We’re not some fancy coffee shop, just a motorway service station that makes coffee to go. We have some regulars who order a decaff with an extra shot. I explain thats going to have three shots total, and they’re happy with it.
But I keep thinking, if you have three shots of decaff, isn’t that going to be as strong as a normal coffee? Whats the point?
Please forgive my ignorance
It will be stronger than a normal coffee, but it still won’t have any caffeine.
There is a distinction between flavor and caffeine content. Decaffeinating does change the flavor but that doesn’t mean you can’t make it strong.
Decaf coffee (or tea) will still have more than zero caffeine. Allowable amounts vary between US and EU, but multiple repetitions of the process are needed to achieve either 97% or 99.9% caffeine free respectively.
A single pass through a decaffeination process can result in leaving up to 20% of the original caffeine content.
All the decaf coffee I’ve tried has less flavor than normal. The soaking process to decaffeinate it presumably also removes some of the flavorful compounds. If I use 3 shots decaf it ends up tasting close to as flavorful as using 2 shots of normal.
As strong as in what? Flavor or caffeine? I doubt three shots of decaf have as much caffeine. If you mean flavor, you know people like just the flavor of coffee right? That’s why they’re drinking decaf in the first place.
I’m convinced the “ugh, decaf, what’s the point?” people don’t actually like coffee lol.
I used to spout this when I was in my early 20’s and had no fucking clue about the acute anxiety and palm-sweatiness of being 30 and over-caffeinated
they’re just caffeine addicts
Coffee/beer/alcohol are disgusting and consumed for other purposes than taste.
Fight me.
Sure, when and where?
Schoolyard playground. 3pm. Come alone so I can say I won even if I didn’t.
I don’t drink alcohol, so I cannot comment on that.
But that said, I kind of think of coffee as being pretty similar to chocolate. It’s an earthy but bitter flavour that can be nice, often when paired with something sweet and creamy. Also there are nice espressos that are kind of fruity and creamy on their own. There’s plenty flavours that are overwhelming on their own, but complement other flavours nicely. People are also known to like intense experiences, like really spicy foods.
Anyway, I won’t fight you if you don’t like it. That’s totally reasonable :).
Fair enough I figured opinion wouldn’t be popular
Are you 12?
Lol idk drdickhandler you tell me.
Medical school takes forever
It’s literally his username haha.
Cocktails can be downright delicious
Most places serve coffee that tastes like warm milk with a hint of beige, by default.
Adding an extra shot is your best hope of it actually tasting like coffee, regardless of caffeine content.
What fucked me up was not figuring out that this all assumes it’s going to be mixed with some “base”, like milk or water instead of being drinken as just coffee.
I was thinking I’d lost it because I couldn’t understand how having more coffee made it stronger lol.
this all assumes it’s going to be mixed with some “base”, like milk or water
As opposed to what? Dry crushed/ground coffee beans?
As opposed to drinking your coffee black
Black coffee is still mostly water. Also, if you add water to whatever you call black coffee, it’s still black coffee, because it’s mostly water.
Black coffee is still mostly water.
??
I’m sorry but do you not understand what I mean or are you being nitpicky or what is going on here? I’ve never ever heard anyone adding water into regular (drip, french press) coffee. You either drink you coffee black or you add milk/creamer into it.
How do you think coffee is made? You infuse water with coffee beans, normally ground. How strong your coffee is depends on the concentration of actual coffee vs. the “base” (water). It’s the same with tea.
Black coffee can be an espresso, or something with more water. Generally speaking, an espresso is more concentrated (and thus stronger) than an Americano.
A 300ml Americano with 1 shot of espresso has a certain coffe-to-water ratio. A 300ml Americano with 2 shots of espresso will have 2x as much coffee content despite it having the same volume.
In any case, an Espresso is mostly water, even the strongest, tinture-level ones. It’s made by literally passing hot water through the beans so the water gets infused with coffee oils and alkaloids. It’s mostly water. In fact, it’s nearly all water.
This is such a bizarre exchange. I’m honestly not sure if you’re playing dumb or what’s going on, but it should be entirely clear from the context that I’m talking about coffee as in the drink already made. In this case drip or french press coffee and whether someone is adding water to that.
People out there making coffe with something other than water as a base? I’m so fucking confused.
Grind beans, pass through water = coffee.
Are people passing hot milk through it? That must be a pain to clean out the machine.
🎶 The best part of waking up…
Is chewing your Folger’s like nuts. 🎶
I don’t get any sort of milk in my coffee, so it would be strange for it to taste like milk. But it’s true that a lot of people want a coffee milkshake with a ton of sugar, like a Frappuccino.
Doey it change the taste of the coffee? If I order a coffee with a shot of espresso it’s because I like strong tasting coffee.
This is probably it.
Decaf has about 3% of the caffeine, and espresso tends to be stronger in flavor than a standard drip.
maximum of 0.3% in the EU
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A01999L0004-20131118
It says max. 0.3% caffeine content in the coffee dry matter. Roasted Arabica beans have around 1.5% caffeine (although it may vary significantly), meaning that decaf may have as much caffein as 20% of regular coffee.
It’s going to be weaker in caffeine content but still stronger tasting. This is ideal if you are trying to reduce daily caffeine intake or just like the taste of strong coffee.
Some people still need a kick of espresso but don’t want/need 3 shots worth in a single drink.
Generally they’re seeking a specific level of coffee flavor. My spouse does this and its specifically to balance the flavor ratios of the drink.
If the third shot is regular they’re likely just managing caffeine intake while maintaining flavor. My spouse also does this.
I’m not a coffee drinker, but help me understand, What is a shot? caffeine? If so, wouldn’t a decaf “with an extra shot” just be one shot? since originally it would have no caffeine, but they want to add one shot.
It’s a shot of espresso which is only about 2oz (60ml). A normal serving would be one or two shots.
I’m guessing people are ordering a latte or cappuccino or something similar which is milk and coffee. The extra shot will make the drink have a stronger coffee taste.
Edit: here’s more than you ever asked to know about espresso drinks lol:
A single shot of espresso is only around 20-25ml. A double shot is the most common amount you’ll get when ordering a drink at a coffee shop, and 60ml is on the high end of that. Here’s even more about this topic specifically: https://youtu.be/F4wrUP4c5P4
I don’t really understand either. Caffeine wise, I’d think decaf + a shot = 1 shot, not 3.
Seems like it’s being used as a measurement of amount of coffee, not caffeine. Normal size is “two shots” and decaf (normal size, so “two shots”) with extra shot (of more decaf) would be “three shots”.
At least that’s what I was thinking happened. Not sure how it would change the taste or anything. Maybe it is shots of coffee in milk or something?
It seems like OP is talking about an espresso drink. Yes, that’s typically espresso in water or milk, maybe steamed milk/froth. The decaf would contribute flavor but little caffeine. I’m not sure why OP is confused about this.
I think they were thinking of it in terms of caffeine when those wanting the extra shot were thinking of the flavour.
Caffeine is a colourless, odourless, flavourless alkaloid that is a component of espresso coffee.
If you could magically remove all caffeine without removing anything else, you wouldn’t be able to taste the difference.
Isn’t it just a component of coffee, not specifically espresso
Yeah. IDK why I said “espresso”.
Is it really flavorless? I’ve always had the impression it adds a bit of a bitter flavor
A ‘shot’ is a portion in coffee speak, like a shot of vodka is a standard measurement. A flat white has two shots of espresso as standard, for example. Decaf espresso/coffee would be one or two shots of decaf coffee, still won’t have any (well, much) caffeine, just makes the flavour stronger.
So all of this assumes it’s being mixed with milk or water, right? Because otherwise having two or three shots wouldn’t alter the taste because it would just be more of the same
Yes, there are many types of coffee produced with milk or water, as well as with ice and other ingredients. Some are produced with steamed milk, others with foam, a mixture of the two, one or two shots, in different amounts, with flavoured syrups, ice, or just with a certain amount of water to bulk it out.
You can have a double espresso (two shots only, nothing else), but even that can be short or long, which means there is less or more water used when creating each shot of espresso. Short espressos are popular in Italy, usually cost a euro, and would be taken standing up and finished in a minute or two (or even instantly); the amount would be about the same as an alcoholic shot.
It’s interesting to me because for me the coffee (not espresso) as is the default, with no added water. So the idea that it’s assumed it is mixed threw me off. Here the assumption the coffee is “regular” (drip, french press, basically not espresso) and if you want water or milk in it, that’s extra thing. Nobody puts in water in that coffe though hah, it’s just whether you want milk and sugar.
Ah yeah that’s your kind of standard home or office coffee, not something you’d get in a cafe really (or at least not the main one they would serve).
Here I think it’s the typical coffee you’d get if you don’t specify anything else. Espresso based fancy milk foam sugary things are getting more popular though.
Ah yeah if you go to a non-cafe place then that’s what you’d get unless they invested in a fancy machine.
Do try a flat white sometime though, or a piccolo latte (no sugar or such heathenly things though!).
I’m aware of how espresso drinks work. I was picturing the decaf being brewed decaf, not an espresso drink. I guess OP does mean an americano or a cappuccino or something. So in terms of flavor, it contributes, in terms of caffeine, it does not.
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You can make espresso with decaf coffee beans.
I wonder if they make their coffee more like an Americano, so you do a shot (or two, or three) or espresso and then add some hot water. This takes the traditional espresso shot, which is more concentrated, and changes it to a more drip/filter style taste.
Follow-up question - each portafilter is two shots right? So if you end up adding an third shot to a coffee, what do you do with the leftover fourth one?
(Or do you have a smaller, single shot portafilter?)
All of the bar espresso machines I’ve worked with have an extra “handle”(I’m not sure how it’s called in english) that’s half as deep and has a single spout, so yes there is a single shot one, at least for the ones in italy, i don’t know if it’s the same for the rest of the world
Portafilters for a single shot is pretty standard equipment, but it’s also a bit controversial among the snobs. A lot of baristas will stick to making double shots and just throw the second one away if nobody orders an espresso while it’s still fresh. In a moderately busy bar excess espresso shots are not really a problem.
… just throw the second one away if nobody orders an espresso while it’s still fresh. In a moderately busy bar excess espresso shots are not really a problem.
I used to hang out at a coffeehouse (in high school, I’d go with friends or alone - just to sit and read/write/draw) and the proprietors would always make a fresh pair of espressos for the one shot that would go into the latte or americano, then offer me the leftover shot of espresso (when it wasn’t very busy and it would have gone to waste). But yep, two shots were made, every time.
It sometimes pays to be a regular someplace 😸
Well good to know; in all honesty it feels a little weird to see espresso as a snob thing when here in italy you see it everywhere, i literally just came from bringing a couple of cups of it to a couple of my frends working in the constrution site next to my house; it’s kinda nice to see this differences
The difference between Italy and the rest of the world in terms of espresso culture is night and day. If you want a decent espresso in most of Europe you have to go to some hipster obsessing over every tiny detail - if you go to a random bar they will give you an espresso shot the size of a glass of milk. I always go for a lungo in Italy, but most espressos I get in other countries still feel a bit ridiculous to me.
On the positive side, the obsessive hipsters might actually be on to something - there’s a lot of potential for flavour in the espresso that is generally not explored in Italy. Italian beans tend to be very dark roasted, meaning that the brewing of the coffee is very forgiving but there is less potential for more exciting flavours. Then again, people who want a fruity cup of coffee are arguably better off sticking to other extraction methods.
And there’s certainly quality differences in Italy as well! Though I feel like it often boils down to the basics such as keeping the machine clean and preventing soap taste.
Sometimes I wonder if customer demand creates the over-extracted espresso you often see.
But when you go somewhere with barristas that give a damn, they’ll extract correctly, because they’re confident enough to discuss it.I’ve still had no luck persuading my mum that filling half a cup with overrun is not how it’s supposed to taste.
But when I do a 36g shot, “it doesn’t taste right”.I’m not a coffee drinker but my partner is. She says she had two decent cups of coffee in Italy (two weeks in Rome, Bolzano, and Venice) but every day in Australia she has better. Australians are complete coffee snobs.
It’s a completely different product. Italian coffee does not have much going on in terms of flavour beyond bitter, and the only way of liking coffee there is to learn how to appreciate that. It’s not easy for anyone who has learned to appreciate lighter roasts of coffee.
Eventually I learned to genuinely like it, but I also did live there for four years. And I would still use my Chemex rather than my Mocca at home 95% of the time.
Italy and the rest of the world have different ideas of what constitutes espresso, culturally.
Italian espresso is fast, casual, cheap, typically darkly roasted, and a very social experience.
Espresso in the US, Australia, and other countries tends to be more prepared, precise, lightly roasted, and appreciated.
Neither is better than the other, just different cultures!
That’s the thing, to me the way the rest of the world sees italian stuff is just a big question mark; i’m genuinely curious about how it looks through different glasses
That’s interesting to know, thanks! Most coffee shops where I live would probably never get busy enough to use a spare shot. Perhaps they change out to a single shot portafilter, but I’ve never noticed.
You mean the basket. The portafilter holds the basket and is inserted into the group head. They can be bottomless (naked) or have spouts.
On to baskets. You can buy single/double/triple shot sizes (typically 7/14/21 grams) but you can also buy 18/20/22/24/25g baskets. You’ll find most serious cafes use 18/20/22g baskets. Barista’s almost always love to chat so don’t be afraid to ask questions. Just be nice and they’ll tell you just about anything you want to know about pulling espresso shots.
I’ve seen some shops put aside the extra shot if they know another customer has ordered one and they can serve it before it sits around too long. Otherwise, you can dose the portafilter with less coffee for a single.
There are people who order on shot espresso + one shot decaf. Source: personal experience.
Been drinking decaf (instant + filter) for a while, due to causing anxiety and crashing badly after. And it’s only when someone doesn’t have decaf and you drink normal coffee (exact same strength, even if made by self) that one realises how bitter the caffeine itself tastes. (Don’t drink sugar, just milk.)
So perhaps they want that bitter bite, which decaf doesn’t do naturally, which the caffeine being the most bitter part of the drink.
Does it cost the same? Could just be the “no ice” concept… No ice, more actual drink. Maybe they feel like they’re getting more of what they’re paying for with an extra shot added.
I never really saw no ice as a cost saving thing, just as a “my drink won’t taste like water in 5 minutes” thing.
They usually charge for the extra shot
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New research is suggesting caffeine’s stimulant effects are caused by the placebo effect anyway. The idea of decaf is kind of void if true.
