• GiddyGap@lemm.eeOP
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      1 year ago

      How do you feel like it’s a recession? And why do you think most people feel that way?

      Obviously, recessions don’t happen based on anecdotal information, but that doesn’t mean it can’t feel that way to some individuals.

    • gowan@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      That’s not the complication. What has made the NBER unwilling to label this a recession up to now was the job numbers. You can’t be in a recession if everyone can easily get a job. Now that the job numbers are declining and layoffs are going on they will likely declare it a recession.

    • maporita@unilem.org
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      1 year ago

      Unemployment is at the lowest rate for 30 years and wages are rising… that’s actually part of what’s driving inflation. Annualized growth this year is expected to hit an astonishing 6%. In July new orders for manufacturing hit their highest level in 9 months. Construction is doing well and consumer spending is way up. Nothing points even remotely to a recession.

            • iopq@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              That’s cherry-picking because I could just as easily say “fuel costs are down, so it’s good for the average person”

              You don’t just spend all of your income on housing. To be more accurate, you would need to track the average expenses and if they go up or down. Which is called… the CPI

    • cakeistheanswer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 year ago

      Using the stock market to measure a recession has to account for continually rising rates at which money is rented. If you can see pretty massive cases of consumer level inflation while businesses struggle, you already have a hole money is leaving.

      Watching the evergrande saga unwind over the course of years should give an idea to the extent of run time it will take to see results, especially when it is in the interest of investors to prop up value.

        • iopq@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          That’s part of CPI. Housing is like one third of it. The only time wages were higher vs. the inflation was during the pandemic, and that’s not a fair comparison since a lot of people lost their jobs so the average wage was affected

          The average person now is much better off than in 2019 and it’s not even close

            • _wintermute@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              They’re wealthy enough to be able to absorb the increased cost without noticing while going “ACK-shually” to anyone who isn’t wealthy enough to aborsb the cost increase without noticing. Arm chair economists are fucking cancer.

              • Halosheep@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                You are both arguing from an anecdotal pov and he has data to back up his argument.

                Someone is winning and it ain’t you.

                • _wintermute@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Oh yeah, I’m sure clown is technically correct about the term and definition of recession. The people losing are definitely the people who are being priced out of groceries and homes. Acting like everything is fine and the economy is great is pretty fucking tone deaf.

  • Tigbitties@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Only poor people are feeling it and the cash value of what they own is too small to make a difference in the larger picture.

    • gowan@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      They exist in non-capitalist systems as well so long as the economy has growth metrics being tracked. They can be rarer but as economic data from some countries is less reliable due to fraud, incompetence or just sheer difficulty in obtaining said data (eg try getting accurate numbers in a extremely poor country with little infrastructure) so it can be hard to tell.

      They exist outside of capitalism. Im not sure why you would think other systems have perpetual upwards growth.

          • gowan@reddthat.com
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            1 year ago

            The UK in 1706. It predates capitalism and the economy tanked by ~15% as the result if war with France.

            Yes they moved the goalposts and they still managed to be wrong.

            • 3laws@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Yes they moved the goalposts and they still managed to be wrong

              Well, fancy that.

              Anywho… for a second there I thought your instance was @redhat.com

            • 3laws@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Since late stage capitalism is imperialism 3.0, I wonder if it still counts. 🤔

              • gowan@reddthat.com
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                1 year ago

                That’s just a more complicated way of you stating you do not understand what imperialism is as that is absolutely not just a capitalist thing eg The USSR.

            • SheeEttin@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              How does something predate capitalism? I feel like capitalism happened as soon as one ape had something another didn’t.

              • gowan@reddthat.com
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                1 year ago

                Capitalism, like many philosophies, is a response to a previous system eg Marx was responding to Smith’s works, Mussolini was responding to Marxists etc. Capitalism’s notion that the ideal involvement of the state in private enterprise should be limited was not a commonly held view until the later 1700s.

                Mercantilism was the popular system of the time and it featured a lot of direct involvement from the crown.

            • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I meant currently, today, not historically.

              predates capitalism

              Talk about moving goalposts. Mixed economies include capitalist markets.

        • TanakaAsuka@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          If we exclude mixed economies and state capitalist countries we are left with basically looking at historic record so let’s do that.

          There were recessions in 15the century England, not a capitalist economy at all! There was also a recession in Rome in 33 AD as well if you want to look back further. This is just from 5 minutes of googling.

          It is not possible to have an economy that never contracts, just to have one where it happens nowhere near as frequently as our current systems and with far better outcomes for most people.

        • gowan@reddthat.com
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          1 year ago

          Moving the goalposts? Still possible the UK in 1706 was in a massive recession as a result if the war with France. Neither country would be capitalist at the time and were mercantilist.

          You can just admit that you have no idea what a recession is and made an inaccurate comment because of that ignorance.

          • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I would if it were true. Recessions occur with economic markets. All economies in the world today use some form of capitalism. Either state run or mixed. Therefore, I still stand by my statement. If you can find a current example of a recession occurring in a non capitalist country, I will humbly apologize. I don’t have to be correct. But I’m not going to bow while you denigrate a correct statement.

            Edit: After discussing this with my son, he said I’m wrong. So I’m sorry and apologize. I didn’t specify the present in my comment. That’s what I meant. But I understand that historically there have been other economies with recessions.

            Edit 2: It seems my apology was premature. After further reading, I found the term was coined in 1929. Which places it firmly under, you guessed it- capitalism.

            The sense of “temporary decline in economic activity” was a fall-of-1929 coinage, probably a noun of action from recess.

            Before then, economic declines were called financial disaster or slumps.

      • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Still capitalist.

        Gross domestic product is expected to grow 8.3% this year, from 1.9% in 2021, according to a Bloomberg survey of five economists. The country is getting a lift from a rise in oil production and seeing tax revenue and banking credit expand, which suggests domestic demand is rising.

        Time to get a new talking point.

          • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Yeah, I’ve read it was really horrific. It’s still bad there, but it seems to be getting better.