LGBTQ+ groups and drag performers suing the state argued Monday that Senate Bill 12 violates constitutionally-protected rights. The new law is set to go into effect on Friday unless a federal judge blocks it.
Then you’ve only been to one type. There are family friendly shows that are no different content wise from taking your kid to see a face character actor at Disneyland.
Normally we attend them at gay clubs where heavy drinking is involved. It’s adult entertainment and why I wouldn’t take my child. Just like I wouldn’t take my kid to a strip club.
A good friend of mine is a drag performer. He wouldn’t take his children either.
Not fun shows for adults. They do shows that are explicitly for kids or families. They don’t do sexual stuff at those shows and, believe it or not, kids like people in flamboyant outfits doing fun things like singing.
I hadn’t heard that, but it wouldn’t shock me. I always thought the drinking age should be 16 and the driving age should be 18. That gives kids two years to understand what being impaired from drinking means before ever getting behind the wheel of a car.
I didn’t speak to those as those are more recent and stated my opinion already on it. It isn’t something I’d take my child to but people should be free to raise their child as they see fit.
For anyone following this thread, this guy is a crazy guns don’t kill kids, ex cop Black people commit all the crime kinda folk. Maybe the ex cop thing was a lie they seem to be doing in this thread. Doesn’t matter.
Then your kids would be missing out. Imagine sitting in the audience in a library with a bunch of children running around laughing. There’s an actor in front, in costume, reading from a book, and acting it out as he goes. He does the voices perfectly, and you hear laughter from the kids, knows when to pause for dramatic effect, and even does a sudden movement/loud voice to initiate an age appropriate jump scare that has the kids squealing with laughter.
But that’s just the one I took my kids to. I don’t know what else they’re like
That’s like saying you’ve seen a few videos of stand up comedy or live music in your news feed. Yeah don’t take your kid to fuckin Rammstein but whatever kid musician the kids these days like is probably fine
And there are even metal shows for kids. They make it kid-friendly. I’m not a fan, but Jim Breuer at least used to do a metal and comedy show for families, nothing inappropriate for kids.
As a parent I rather not have government tell me what is approved thing and what’s not. I’m not LGBT and not interested in drag shows but honestly the whole thing is blown out of proportion.
I find it ridiculous that countries like Poland are heavily against LGBT, then the same people will turn on TV to watch cabaret (note the meaning in US is different than in Europe) and watch male comedians dressed as women for comedic effect (e.g. https://youtu.be/iM87cjLCCwI?t=63)
I think he was a real estate guy, built his reputation on having a solid gold toilet, and being one of the few people able to bankrupt a casino, multiple times
You do realise neither video game or movie age ratings are government things in the US, right? They’re run by the ESRB and MPAA respectively, neither of which are government entities.
In fact, just 12 years ago the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association that video games are protected speech and that a California law banning the sale of violent video games to minors was illegal.
Even as private entities they don’t prevent children from accessing the media. They only provide guidance for parents who can then use it to decide if the content is appropriate.
My wife used to work at a video store in the 90s. They would catch kids in the adult room all the time. You didn’t have to look at the back either. There was explicit porn right on the front of the box.
Not only are they non-government, it is specifically setup so that retailers decide what they carry for sale. Most retailers choose not to carry unrated or AO-rated games for sale, but they are not prevented from doing so by any government organization. Those games aren’t “banned”, retailers simply choose not to carry them. Suprement court decisions like Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association uphold this structure, citing video games as protected speech.
I’ll take my kids wherever I feel appropriate. You can do the same with yours, but don’t you fucking dare tell me where I can or can’t take me shithead. Go live your own life and don’t try to live mine
I mean yeah they do. My parents took me to r rated movies since I was in grade school if I wanted to see it, bought me m rated games etc. They had a right to raise me how they want and part of that was making sure I knew what make believe was beforehand and that some things are beyond me in years and I turned out just fine.
So that’s where you’re trying to go now that you’re shitty opinion is being called into question… shift it from parental rights, to non-government organization ratings systems. Okay, let’s actually take a look at those since you seem to think they’re some form of absolute decision:
Established by Motion Picture Association in 1968, the rating system was created to help parents make informed viewing choices for their children.
G – General Audiences
All ages admitted. Nothing that would offend parents for viewing by children.
PG – Parental Guidance Suggested
Some material may not be suitable for children. Parents urged to give “parental guidance”. May contain some material parents might not like for their young children.
PG-13 – Parents Strongly Cautioned
Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13. Parents are urged to be cautious. Some material may be inappropriate for pre-teenagers.
R – Restricted
Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian. Contains some adult material. Parents are urged to learn more about the film before taking their young children with them.
NC-17 – Adults Only
No one 17 and under admitted. Clearly adult. Children are not admitted.
The ESRB rating system was founded by the video game industry in 1994 after consulting a wide range of child development and academic experts, analyzing other rating systems, and conducting nationwide research with parents. ESRB found that parents wanted a rating system that has both age-based categories and concise and impartial information regarding content.
Everyone
Content is generally suitable for all ages. May contain minimal cartoon, fantasy or mild violence and/or infrequent use of mild language.
Everyone 10+
Content is generally suitable for ages 10 and up. May contain more cartoon, fantasy or mild violence, mild language and/or minimal suggestive themes.
Teen
Content is generally suitable for ages 13 and up. May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequest use of strong language.
Mature 17+
Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up. May contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.
Adults Only 18+
Content suitable only for adults ages 18 and up. May include prolonged scenes of intense violence, graphic sexual content and.or gambling with real currency.
Both of these systems exist specifically to educate parents for their children so they can make a decision. Both of these systems are run by non-government organizations related directly to the industries the ratings apply to. Stores can sell Adults Only 18+ games if they want, most choose not to. Likewise movie theaters can screen NC-17 films if they want, most choose not to. There are no laws requiring these ratings, or even requiring businesses to abide by these ratings suggestions. They are simply there to allow parents to make educated decisions.
Back to your assertion:
Do kids get to go see rated r movies? How about M rated games?
Yes kids go to see R-rated movies all the time. Parents take kids to see these in theaters every day. Parents buy M-rated video games for their children under 17 all the time as well. Because these are decisions being made by parents for their kids. It is not a government mandate and should not be one.
The exact same thing applies to drag shows. There is nothing inherently sexual about dressing in drag. Traditional theatre (like Shakespeare) had men playing all parts, including the female parts in female costume. Almost all media you see will have actors and hosts wearing makeup. All TV shows and movies obviously, but traditional theatre uses a lot of makesup as well to ensure the correct look is being provided to the audience. A stage actor in makeup often will look crazy when you’re up close, because they need to compensate for things like extreme direct lighting on stage.
If you believe that dressing in non-traditional clothing and makeup is inherently sexual or deviant, that’s entirely on your perception of the world, and you might want to do some deep introspection instead of tryung to force that belief on others.
It’s really not, though; it’s not violent and it’s not sexual. Male-presenting children’s characters wear female clothes all the time without any controversy; Bugs Bunny is constantly dressing up as a girl bunny, Donald Duck wears a dress in “Donald in Mathmagic Land,” and you can literally make Mario wear a wedding dress in Super Mario Odyssey.
(I’m on team Let Your Kids Watch R-Rated Movies If You Want, but even if you think society should get to restrict what parents can show their kids, drag is not something people have generally considered obscene or otherwise had a problem with)
With parent’s permission? Yes. Yes they actually do. My parents bought me halo as a kid. They knew what kind of content it included. I have friends who grew up on horror movies, I wasn’t allowed to see those, but I was allowed to watch shit with more of a crass humor R rating. Hell my mom bought me animal house when I was 16.
It’s not kids “get around them” it’s that parents are informed of the potentially controversial content and have full permission to decide if they want to access it. All through a non governmentally mandated opt in industry standard.
Hell, in my state if you want a third glass of wine with dinner as a 14 year old you’re allowed to have it if your parent gives it to you. Horribly irresponsible parenting sure, and definitely something CPS would want to know more about, but it’s legal.
It’s on the parents to figure out what’s appropriate for their kids.
if you think about it, there’s really only something wrong with drag queens reading children’s books to kids if a) you’re a pedophile and you assume they are too, (they’re not.) or b) you’re a religious zealot who likes to tell people what to wear.
Either way, you’re allowed to decide your kids shouldn’t see that. but then, parents of other kids get to make that same decision. Banning Drag Story Hour to protect the kids is a blatant and unnecessary intrusion.
I mean, I support them and the people who perform in them, but you’re not wrong. And i think that’s the whole problem. You can simply choose not to attend or pay them no attention. It doesn’t fit Into everyone’s world view and that’s alright. But to say that you cannot do it or that it’s illegal is complety absurd and i agreee with that statement that it is petected under freedom of speech.
That’s up to the parents to decide isn’t it? I mean all of this supposedly started because “parental rights” somehow, even though it was parents taking their children to these shows in the first place. Once the mainstream stopped paying direct attention to it after that surface-level excuse, it was shifted to the real reason, just openly being anti-LGBTQ because the republicans hate anything that doesn’t follows the Bible as they believe it should, ignoring the numerous contradictions within the damned book, and even related to similar issues.
1 Timothy 2:9-10 ESV
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.
I guess every woman with braids, or wearing jewelry should be getting the same treatment. I mean it’s in the book too after all.
Or how about tattoos:
Leviticus 19:28 ESV
You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.
This doesn’t even get into things like how the Bible explains how to buy and trade slaves.
You know, I’m starting to think this book has a lot of stuff that doesn’t make sense in a modern world and should not be applied to everyone. Religious beliefs should not be forced on everyone, and with these kinds of laws the religious roots are hidden behind claims of “parental rights” or various forms of “morality”, to try and hide the religious roots they come from. The moderm Republican party loves to ignore the inconvenient fact that this is not a Christian country.
Our founding fathers explicitly warned about it. Madison praised the new Constitution for keeping faith out of federal officeholding, which would welcome individuals “of every description, whether native or adoptive, whether young or old, and without regard to poverty or wealth, or to any particular profession of religious faith.”
James Madison, in the Federalist Papers, challenged the idea that religion in politics would lead men to “cooperate for their common good” and asserted instead that it would make them “vex and oppress each other.”
Or if you want to ignore that commentary as being somehow “unofficial” as it is not a government document and “only” commentary from some of the founding fathers… how about the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. Begun by George Washington, signed by John Adams and *ratified unanimously *by a Senate still half-filled with signers of the Constitution:
Article. 11.
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen (Muslims); and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan (Mohammedan) nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
The original pilgrims came here literally to escape persecution. The current Republican party is doing exactly that to anyone that believes differently than they do and falsely trying to claim it’s how this country was meant to be from the very beginning.
Let them do whatever they want. You go ahead and raise your children properly and teach them properly. They’re just making it very easy for your children to beat them in every aspect of life. Why are you upset?
When those guys complain that they’re having a hard life, I just laugh and remember that my preschool children know more math that a 7th grader. That’s how you win in life. They’re punishing themselves. No need for us to fix any of this. The more they screw up the better it’s for us. Let them enjoy their anti-depressants.
Sure. Doesn’t mean take your kid to one. This isn’t that complicated.
Do you know what goes on at drag shows or have you only been to the after hours nsfw shows?
I’ve been to many. No, I wouldn’t take my child to one.
What’s fine for adults, isn’t always fine for children.
Then you’ve only been to one type. There are family friendly shows that are no different content wise from taking your kid to see a face character actor at Disneyland.
Normally we attend them at gay clubs where heavy drinking is involved. It’s adult entertainment and why I wouldn’t take my child. Just like I wouldn’t take my kid to a strip club.
A good friend of mine is a drag performer. He wouldn’t take his children either.
Not everything is a child event nor should it be.
“I’ve only been to explicitly adult shows which is why I think they’re adult shows”
Of course if you only go to gay clubs with heavy drinking you’d think those shows are for adults. Because those shows ARE for adults.
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No one’s getting naked or sexual, you extremely stupid fuck 🙄
Then you’re not going to fun shows.
Not fun shows for adults. They do shows that are explicitly for kids or families. They don’t do sexual stuff at those shows and, believe it or not, kids like people in flamboyant outfits doing fun things like singing.
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Doesn’t America have like, the highest drinking age in the West?
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I hadn’t heard that, but it wouldn’t shock me. I always thought the drinking age should be 16 and the driving age should be 18. That gives kids two years to understand what being impaired from drinking means before ever getting behind the wheel of a car.
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Speaking of common sense, you know these events also occur outside of bars, right?
I didn’t speak to those as those are more recent and stated my opinion already on it. It isn’t something I’d take my child to but people should be free to raise their child as they see fit.
I personally consider the violence contained in the Bible much worse for children than anything I’ve seen in a drag show, even the more “adult” ones.
wtf does the Bible have to do with anything?
For anyone following this thread, this guy is a crazy guns don’t kill kids, ex cop Black people commit all the crime kinda folk. Maybe the ex cop thing was a lie they seem to be doing in this thread. Doesn’t matter.
Never said I was an ex-cop
Interesting you’d openly lie. I said quite the opposite about black people. I even cited the statistics.
Weird your lie when it’s there for people to read
yes everyone should go read your comment history to understand your position in this thread, i agree, it’s something we both encourage
Then your kids would be missing out. Imagine sitting in the audience in a library with a bunch of children running around laughing. There’s an actor in front, in costume, reading from a book, and acting it out as he goes. He does the voices perfectly, and you hear laughter from the kids, knows when to pause for dramatic effect, and even does a sudden movement/loud voice to initiate an age appropriate jump scare that has the kids squealing with laughter.
But that’s just the one I took my kids to. I don’t know what else they’re like
Ive seen a few videos in my news feed.
So, “no I have no idea what goes on but I hate it anyway”.
“Have you seen ?”
“I’ve seen parts of it”
If he’s seen “parts”, that was a strip show. I wouldn’t expect most bars to be ok with that
How much do you expect? I better things to do than watch bob in a dress give some one a lapdance.
That’s like saying you’ve seen a few videos of stand up comedy or live music in your news feed. Yeah don’t take your kid to fuckin Rammstein but whatever kid musician the kids these days like is probably fine
And there are even metal shows for kids. They make it kid-friendly. I’m not a fan, but Jim Breuer at least used to do a metal and comedy show for families, nothing inappropriate for kids.
What news feed is that?
As a parent I rather not have government tell me what is approved thing and what’s not. I’m not LGBT and not interested in drag shows but honestly the whole thing is blown out of proportion.
I find it ridiculous that countries like Poland are heavily against LGBT, then the same people will turn on TV to watch cabaret (note the meaning in US is different than in Europe) and watch male comedians dressed as women for comedic effect (e.g. https://youtu.be/iM87cjLCCwI?t=63)
Gods why does this incredibly reasonable take feel like it’s so fucking rare?
Pop politics. We might as well get lady Gaga to be a politician. America really is dead already. It’s not about us and it never really was.
She couldn’t possibly be any worse than the guy who hosted The Apprentice.
Oh you mean that Epstein guys friend there… What’s his name?
I think he was a real estate guy, built his reputation on having a solid gold toilet, and being one of the few people able to bankrupt a casino, multiple times
I agree. Everyone should get able to raise their children within reason.
We didn’t take our kid to a drag show until she was 17 and it was a family safe drag show.
Did your kid request to go to a drag show?
When she was younger. We said no. There is nudity, sexual jokes and lots of drinking.
She has when she turned 18 and we found an appropriate one to take her too.
Now that she’s over 21 we would take her but due to Covid, we haven’t been in awhile.
She loves drag. So does my gf. I’m more impartial about it.
Not in drag shows explicitly for kids and families. Which has been a thing for years now.
Just don’t take your kid to a bar.
Do you hate movies and video games? How about the FCC?
You do realise neither video game or movie age ratings are government things in the US, right? They’re run by the ESRB and MPAA respectively, neither of which are government entities.
In fact, just 12 years ago the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association that video games are protected speech and that a California law banning the sale of violent video games to minors was illegal.
Even as private entities they don’t prevent children from accessing the media. They only provide guidance for parents who can then use it to decide if the content is appropriate.
Well, technically, they do, if the store selling said items has a policy following the listed age ratings.
No, they don’t. The private entities in question are the ESRB and MPAA.
…right, which is why I said, “if the store selling them has a policy not to.” I didn’t say anything about the government.
I didn’t say anything about retailers or the government. Try reading before replying.
The MPAA and ESRB are neither.
Pretty sure every kid in the 90s opened the black curtain at the rental shop to look at the back of the VHS.
My wife used to work at a video store in the 90s. They would catch kids in the adult room all the time. You didn’t have to look at the back either. There was explicit porn right on the front of the box.
Not only are they non-government, it is specifically setup so that retailers decide what they carry for sale. Most retailers choose not to carry unrated or AO-rated games for sale, but they are not prevented from doing so by any government organization. Those games aren’t “banned”, retailers simply choose not to carry them. Suprement court decisions like Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association uphold this structure, citing video games as protected speech.
I’ll take my kids wherever I feel appropriate. You can do the same with yours, but don’t you fucking dare tell me where I can or can’t take me shithead. Go live your own life and don’t try to live mine
So you dont support parental rights?
Do kids get to go see rated r movies? How about M rated games? Same concept.
Yes, Im aware kids get around them, but the principle is the same.
I mean yeah they do. My parents took me to r rated movies since I was in grade school if I wanted to see it, bought me m rated games etc. They had a right to raise me how they want and part of that was making sure I knew what make believe was beforehand and that some things are beyond me in years and I turned out just fine.
So that’s where you’re trying to go now that you’re shitty opinion is being called into question… shift it from parental rights, to non-government organization ratings systems. Okay, let’s actually take a look at those since you seem to think they’re some form of absolute decision:
https://www.motionpictures.org/film-ratings/
https://www.esrb.org/ratings-guide/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Software_Rating_Board#Ratings
Both of these systems exist specifically to educate parents for their children so they can make a decision. Both of these systems are run by non-government organizations related directly to the industries the ratings apply to. Stores can sell Adults Only 18+ games if they want, most choose not to. Likewise movie theaters can screen NC-17 films if they want, most choose not to. There are no laws requiring these ratings, or even requiring businesses to abide by these ratings suggestions. They are simply there to allow parents to make educated decisions.
Back to your assertion:
Yes kids go to see R-rated movies all the time. Parents take kids to see these in theaters every day. Parents buy M-rated video games for their children under 17 all the time as well. Because these are decisions being made by parents for their kids. It is not a government mandate and should not be one.
The exact same thing applies to drag shows. There is nothing inherently sexual about dressing in drag. Traditional theatre (like Shakespeare) had men playing all parts, including the female parts in female costume. Almost all media you see will have actors and hosts wearing makeup. All TV shows and movies obviously, but traditional theatre uses a lot of makesup as well to ensure the correct look is being provided to the audience. A stage actor in makeup often will look crazy when you’re up close, because they need to compensate for things like extreme direct lighting on stage.
If you believe that dressing in non-traditional clothing and makeup is inherently sexual or deviant, that’s entirely on your perception of the world, and you might want to do some deep introspection instead of tryung to force that belief on others.
Yes and yes. Any refusal to sell is purely at the retailer’s discretion. Next question?
Yes. There are no laws preventing either.
So you dont support parents being allowed to make those choices for their own children?
Why dont you support parental rights?
Some parents also use their own discretion and let their kids enjoy that media.
It’s really not, though; it’s not violent and it’s not sexual. Male-presenting children’s characters wear female clothes all the time without any controversy; Bugs Bunny is constantly dressing up as a girl bunny, Donald Duck wears a dress in “Donald in Mathmagic Land,” and you can literally make Mario wear a wedding dress in Super Mario Odyssey.
(I’m on team Let Your Kids Watch R-Rated Movies If You Want, but even if you think society should get to restrict what parents can show their kids, drag is not something people have generally considered obscene or otherwise had a problem with)
With parent’s permission? Yes. Yes they actually do. My parents bought me halo as a kid. They knew what kind of content it included. I have friends who grew up on horror movies, I wasn’t allowed to see those, but I was allowed to watch shit with more of a crass humor R rating. Hell my mom bought me animal house when I was 16.
It’s not kids “get around them” it’s that parents are informed of the potentially controversial content and have full permission to decide if they want to access it. All through a non governmentally mandated opt in industry standard.
Hell, in my state if you want a third glass of wine with dinner as a 14 year old you’re allowed to have it if your parent gives it to you. Horribly irresponsible parenting sure, and definitely something CPS would want to know more about, but it’s legal.
It’s on the parents to figure out what’s appropriate for their kids. if you think about it, there’s really only something wrong with drag queens reading children’s books to kids if a) you’re a pedophile and you assume they are too, (they’re not.) or b) you’re a religious zealot who likes to tell people what to wear.
Either way, you’re allowed to decide your kids shouldn’t see that. but then, parents of other kids get to make that same decision. Banning Drag Story Hour to protect the kids is a blatant and unnecessary intrusion.
I saw rated R movies as a kid in the 80s all the time. Believe it or not, I’m not a depraved psychopath.
I mean, I support them and the people who perform in them, but you’re not wrong. And i think that’s the whole problem. You can simply choose not to attend or pay them no attention. It doesn’t fit Into everyone’s world view and that’s alright. But to say that you cannot do it or that it’s illegal is complety absurd and i agreee with that statement that it is petected under freedom of speech.
That’s up to the parents to decide isn’t it? I mean all of this supposedly started because “parental rights” somehow, even though it was parents taking their children to these shows in the first place. Once the mainstream stopped paying direct attention to it after that surface-level excuse, it was shifted to the real reason, just openly being anti-LGBTQ because the republicans hate anything that doesn’t follows the Bible as they believe it should, ignoring the numerous contradictions within the damned book, and even related to similar issues.
I guess every woman with braids, or wearing jewelry should be getting the same treatment. I mean it’s in the book too after all.
Or how about tattoos:
This doesn’t even get into things like how the Bible explains how to buy and trade slaves.
You know, I’m starting to think this book has a lot of stuff that doesn’t make sense in a modern world and should not be applied to everyone. Religious beliefs should not be forced on everyone, and with these kinds of laws the religious roots are hidden behind claims of “parental rights” or various forms of “morality”, to try and hide the religious roots they come from. The moderm Republican party loves to ignore the inconvenient fact that this is not a Christian country.
Our founding fathers explicitly warned about it. Madison praised the new Constitution for keeping faith out of federal officeholding, which would welcome individuals “of every description, whether native or adoptive, whether young or old, and without regard to poverty or wealth, or to any particular profession of religious faith.”
James Madison, in the Federalist Papers, challenged the idea that religion in politics would lead men to “cooperate for their common good” and asserted instead that it would make them “vex and oppress each other.”
Or if you want to ignore that commentary as being somehow “unofficial” as it is not a government document and “only” commentary from some of the founding fathers… how about the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. Begun by George Washington, signed by John Adams and *ratified unanimously *by a Senate still half-filled with signers of the Constitution:
The original pilgrims came here literally to escape persecution. The current Republican party is doing exactly that to anyone that believes differently than they do and falsely trying to claim it’s how this country was meant to be from the very beginning.
Let them do whatever they want. You go ahead and raise your children properly and teach them properly. They’re just making it very easy for your children to beat them in every aspect of life. Why are you upset?
When those guys complain that they’re having a hard life, I just laugh and remember that my preschool children know more math that a 7th grader. That’s how you win in life. They’re punishing themselves. No need for us to fix any of this. The more they screw up the better it’s for us. Let them enjoy their anti-depressants.