- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
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We should not be building our cities in ways that necessitate owning a car.
That ship has sailed a long time ago
Never too late to change. Just look at Amsterdam now vs a couple decades ago
I know Jersey City has made a big push to bikify the city, and limited parking in new high-density development, with the idea being if you build it, they will come. It’s part of an overall plan that they date out to 2060. Shit takes time. Doesn’t mean you don’t try though, that’s for sure. I’m hopeful.
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I’d argue that Amsterdam isn’t a great example, as the infrastructure of that city was largely built before the advent of automobiles, then converted to support a more Americanized design that was vehicle-centric, before finally realizing, “Hey, we’re Dutch, not American, we need more space for our bicycles!”
If we’re discussing American infrastructure designed in the 20th century, it seems to be pretty difficult to convert because the physical structures of both the transportation infrastructure and the destinations people want to visit are not built densely enough to make going without a car a top tier option for most people.
I mean this broadly, not to say that there aren’t opportunities to start moving this in the other direction, but emphasizing that changing the focus to downplay the importance of vehicles will be neither quick, cheap, or easy.
I mean… I figure nearly half of us cities were designed before 1900, to some extent anyhow.
Like st Louis was incorporated in 1822. Plenty of cities were clearly designed before the automobile and then gave up the plot for Robert Moses bullshit.
city cores and select transit corridors are going to be where the nice stuff’s built, but there are going to be pockets of car hell for decades. these places will probably start losing value and the farthest out ones will start disappearing to abandonment
You’re right, let’s not change with the times but just lay down and die, nothing is worth the effort.
What are we gonna do, nuke all the suburbs and cram everyone into little pods?
For example the minimum parking rules could be changed to allow buildings to not have parking
Commercial buildings then could occupy their entire block, if they don’t need all that space, more stuff fits in the city
Zoning could change, allowing more commercial stuff in the suburbs, more homes in the city
bro, capitalism is going to cram you into a pod no matter what we do with urban planning, because rich people control more and more of all the wealth and thus land. if anything breaking car dependence would make pods less likely because you could build real apartments in more places
Lmao. This is so ignorant
It’s gonna be crashing on the shore pretty soon at this rate.
not really. it’s a choice that’s remade every year. we can fix it, and people are trying.
It’s about oil and profits. They want us to need a car to go anywhere. More cars, more oil, more profits, RIGHT?
Nerevar, what do you need a car for? You have all the siltstriders in the world at your disposal. Here, take the keys to Juan Angelito. He’s my favorite.
I can afford a new car. Want to know how I can afford a new car?
By not doing stupid things like buying new cars.
People who buy new are wild to me. I can afford a new car, or I could just buy a car that’s only a few years old with low mileage and save a ton of money. Seems like a no brainer to me.
Well for an EV it might make sense. There just hasnt been a used market for them for a while.
What do you mean? The Nissan Leaf first came out in 2011, the original ones are probably 13 years old now. The Bolt was released in 2016.
I own a car older than that. What I don’t want is to buy an EV and when it needs repair I have to find the one shop in my state that knows what to do. I keep hearing horror stories of having to go back to the dealer.
The problem will be solved with time but right now I would be hesitant if I was looking at replacing my car.
They generally need the same maintenance as any other car, struts, suspension, wheels, and miscellaneous parts that break. They’re not magical, they just use a different fuel.
Ok good to know, and the battery replacement stuff is all settled as well? I am planning my next car to be a used EV I just don’t want to have problems.
Battery replacements are generally about as frequent as getting a new transmission or engine. They’re rare, expensive, but if you want to pick something up on the used or remanufactured market it’s much cheaper. Supposedly the average battery will outlast the life of the car. My EV is only a year old, so I’ll have to get back to you on that, but the number I’ve heard is 10% degradation in 10 years.
the originals had terrible range right out the gate and have only gotten worse. practical electric cars aren’t common on the used market since most of them are still with their first owners
Depends on when. There have been many times in the past 20 years that “low mileage” cars are only a couple thousand less than new, and some rare cases during the pandemic where used was more than new, cause new didn’t exist.
Even now depending on where you live, you have to get a fairly used car to get a significant discount.
Right but the people they worship buy new cars, and they’re just temporarily disgraced millionaires so this 90 grand truck is worth it.
Also it makes up for the tiny penis.
There are very few electric cars available used, which severely limits my options if I want to be responsible with an automobile purchase.
Don’t buy a new car. New cars are for rich suckers. Cars are the most common type of depreciating asset.
If you’re rich you don’t care
exactly why you should go for a second hand one if you aren’t drowning in generational wealth.
What? My point stands. If you care, you aren’t rich. You just have some cash from a few good years.
Would you care about the deprecation in value of your toothbrush?
Who are you even arguing to? Literally no one disagrees with you. Someone even replied to you to say they don’t disagree with you and you doubled down. You gotta relax man.
Huh? I made one reply in this thread when someone suggested that even the rich would be enticed by second hand, by u/potato
One reply sticking to your original point is not being rustled.
I’ve had 3 cars the first was 10yo when i bought it, the second was 3yo when i got it, the last one was new. Each one lasted 5 years, 12 years and then 10 years respectively. Moved to a walkable/bikeable city & I don’t even have a driver’s license anymore. New cars are not bad as long as it doesn’t get changed out every other year, and you get one that is a reliable model.
You had a brand new car that only lasted 10 years?? What are you doing to your cars??
My friend has a 1993 Toyota Land Cruiser that the mechanic said drives like new.
I have a 2008 Nissan 350z that I’d expect to get another 10 years out of.
Sold it when we moved out of the country, lol. It was a 2007 FJ Cruiser we got for 18k, sold it for 10k. Only changed the starter (drowned it), and a couple other things. Best vehicle I ever owned.
I saw this on TikTok and it’s been burned into my brain since.
https://cdn1.frocdn.ch/vZBqPK4EuWepdGt.mp4 (link might not work with some security settings).
The amount of money seemingly regular people are dumping into car payments is unreal.
Taking out a loan for a vehicle does not mean you are rich lol.
Anyone can get financing for a shitty new car, not everyone can figure out how to retire by the age of 55
I can’t even afford an old car lol
Same here, why I went with a motorcycle instead lol
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At today’s car prices, it’s actually cheaper for some people to use a rideshare every day. Especially when you factor in the cost of gas, maintenance, insurance,and parking. My friend drove for Uber and had a regular daily commuter, a nurse who worked in Houston’s medical center where parking is around $30/day. We have no good mass transit options so Uber was the best choice.
Sadly it’s dependent on the area, my current area rideshare situation is so bad that it can take you almost an hour to get a driver who won’t cancel your trip because they deem that your trip is not profitable enough. The system’s fucked so you’re pushed to get a car so you can have mobility. This is doubly so when you’ve started having children.
This is doubly so when you’ve started having children.
we need alternatives to driving otherwise people won’t be able to have kids
Uber became super expensive as well, post pandemic.
Luckily not in my area
The newest car I’ve ever owned (and currently own) is a 2007 model. Not gonna lie, with all the BS getting loaded into cars nowadays I think I’ll keep it that way. It’s easier just to have a couple of cheap shitboxes in the driveway that way you have something to drive when one of them inevitably needs work
I got a almost new 2021 last year and there’s no key hole for the door so when the key fob battery died in the middle of the winter I was stuck outside looking up on YouTube how to unlock my car . Turns out you have to pry off a piece of plastic that I ended up breaking to use my key to unlock the door . It also sets off an alarm when you open the car that way . Who thought that was a good idea ! To make things worse it was like -30 C and I had my 5 year old with me because we where sliding.
That’s why you read the manual, especially for a complex peace of tech, when you buy the thing. Just because you didn’t bother to look up how stuff works doesn’t make it bad. This one’s on you.
Or how about you don’t fix something that ain’t broken. This push to start shit is a cancer
I fucking love my push to start.
It’s easier, more secure, and cool to boot.
If my key fob dies I just stick it in a hole on the steering column and it starts right up. The door key is easily accessible in the fob, and the batteries aren’t difficult to replace regardless.
It’s also your responsibility to know and understand these things before you spend tens of thousands of dollars on any purchase. It’s not like it suddenly got like that when you got into that situation.
Just because you read it, doesn’t mean you retain the information after.
I can’t afford a used car. My dad helped me buy my current car and if it does I’m fucked.
2 years ago I was in need of a new truck (work related). Practically all the used stuff that’s worth a dam was priced not far behind if not more than new. The kicker, the new ones I was interested in weren’t available…so I was forced to buy used.
about $800 last year for auto insurance
this year the number is about $1400
same vehicle same city
income stayed the same if not lower due to less work
new vehicles are more than likely unaffordable seeing how expensive a ten year old vehicle is
how the f#%k are we not in the streets
Just be glad you don’t live in Detroit or you’d be shelling out close to $6000
Can’t have shit in Detroit.
(also funny that the motor city is not a viable place to have a motorized vehicle)
But the houses are $500
With I would assume 500k of owed taxes or some other trap, like living in Detroit.
But you shouldn’t have to have a car in Detroit. All of our cities need robust public transportation systems.
Yeah, having a here in the Inland Empire in California is one thing since we’re pretty spread out even if you increased density and public transit. But the major cities at minimum cars should be a luxury or something that sits in the garage half the time, and if its doing that it should also be quite small like those early 90s polish cars.
Same boat. Insurance costs have been going up for the last few years. I tried to talk to them about it… they said ‘well everyone else is getting in accidents, you don’t even know!!! It’s crazy out there’. Same vehicle. My only ‘options’ were to let them install a bunch of tracking devices and software (fuck that) or reduce my coverage considerably.
Gosh I love the for profit insurance I’m forced to have that gets to dictate everything.
Here’s another reason why taking transit doesn’t bother me. For five bucks a day I can listen to podcasts and music and read books for 30 minutes, and let someone else take care of everything, I do not love everything about the bus (really you have to make everyone disembark during rush hour so you can cram your obesity scooter on there so you can go to Tim Hortons so nobody else can sit down?), but honestly it’s pretty stress free. I realize not everyone has access to transit but I think people should make more effort to use it.
The problem I run into is time. And sometimes location. My previous job, for instance, was far enough out that there was no bus service; I had to drive. My only other option was a 2-hour transit ride and then a half-hour bike ride, partly on gravel roads.
And my friend has a job that’s 15 minutes by car, or 45 minutes away by bus. Even worse, with recent construction messing with the trains, his commute has gone to 2 hours plus.
And this is in a city with a decently robust transit system.
No definitely transit should be made more robust, I know it doesn’t work for everyone. Get light rail transit everywhere and make 15 minute commutes, I say. Make transit more convenient than driving.
The biggest problem I run I to with transit in most cities is the time sink, security flaws, and expense.
I drive to a park and ride where I have to pay 12 dollars to have my car broken into. Then wait 20 minutes to pamy another $15 to take the light rail that drops me off 8 blocks from my destination, then wait 20 minutes to pay 5 bucks for the bus that drops me 2 blocks away, then walk to my destination.
Or I could drive straight to my destination, pay 8 bucks for the parking garage with a security gate, and save an hour.
Right, the “take mass transit” works great … in places with functional mass transit.
Bike or electric scooter. Not sure what the distance is but anything under 25 kms is feasible.
I’m not cycling the 40 miles between affordable housing and my office in 105° for 5 months or of the year.
Not everybody can live in New York where the system can support robust public transit.
I live near Austin, and the cheapest place to rent in the small city I work is over $4,000 a month. The place I live is 1/5th of that, but it’s a 90-minute commute by car.
I’d kill for better housing or transit options, but it’s a very complex problem to solve in established areas that largely developed post-automobile. I work in municipal planning, so I appreciate both the advantages and the challenges more than most.
25 km (15 mi) is a bit of a stretch, although I’d have to test my ebike at those distances to know for sure. I got 10 miles one way throttle-only the other day before I ran out of battery
Can you not just manually pedal?
really you have to make everyone disembark during rush hour so you can cram your obesity scooter on there so you can go to Tim Hortons so nobody else can sit down?
Has it…occurred to you that some disabled people have mobility issues or pain disorders that limit mobility to begin with, and that weight gain is a byproduct of not being able to walk or move or stand for very long without trouble?
I had a boss who had dwarfism and used a wheelchair 80% of the time. 20% of the time he slowly, painfully did hobble about–but it was clear as day WHY he was higher weight than he should’ve been. My own blood pressure would spike hearing the tiny sounds of pain he made when got out of his wheelchair and moved.
I have a friend with POTS–and if you’re unfamiliar with that, basically she stands up and her blood pressure and heart rate is malfunctioning so her heart acts like she’s running a marathon, the beats per minute go insane…but blood is pooling in her feet and they’re turning purple where you can’t see it because things are out of whack and despite her heart going haywaire, there’s not enough pressure to get the blood out of her feet and elsewhere. This condition happened prior to any weight gain.
I can hear her breath start to go wobbly just doing simple things because her body doesn’t regulate her blood pressure and heart rate normally. She’s gained weight because she’s at risk of passing the fuck out if she is on her feet for very long–she has to literally plan out doing simple things like going to the grocery store because if she pushes herself she might end up downed on the sidewalk relying on the helpfulness of strangers to get back up. It’s taken her many years to accept she really shouldn’t be pushing herself into a collapse because she’s worried that people will judge her for being “lazy and fat”. Comments like yours about “obesity scooters” only act to tear down all the people who ARE trying their hardest and still having their body fail them.
I have a different friend who has thyroid problems, she inherited them from her mom (and her bro has them too), and weight is a bitch for her to manage because her thyroid is fried.
I just broke my foot in July, and watched my weight inch up because it’s really fucking hard to get up stairs when you can’t put weight on one foot. I was semi bedbound for like 2 months. I’m LUCKY in that my foot will heal, but I don’t even snack and I gained 15lbs because of that one little temporary mobility issue. I’m LUCKY in that once it heals, I will be able to move normally and lose what I gained.
You could’ve made your point about transit without taking pot-shots at disabled people, who often are stuck in a terrible situation of their body failing them medically, and society often forcing them into poverty to be able to access the care they need.
Seriously, why isn’t it possible to champion mass public transit for all without shitting on the people who use it by necessity currently?
We’re you refered to physical therapy after breaking your foot? Or are you able to see if insurance will pay because your mobility has been reduced?
I had several injuries in the military that left me unable to stand, walk, drive a car, or balance for very long. With the help of physical therapy I was eventually able to walk properly, then after some time I was able to take a ride to work a job where I was sometimes sitting but often standing. Eventually I was able to work and exercise enough that I got all my balance and mobility back.
Having public transit helped me when I still didn’t have enough fine motor control to operate a pedal and brake.
Not everyone is on the same journey, but please see if you can access physical therapy. Please advocate for not just healing but making yourself whole.
You don’t have to go to Tim Hortons at rush hour when everyone is using it to go to work and school, and inconvenience everyone on the bus making them late while you back your scooter on because you just have to go get your 12 pack of donuts right now. Just wait a little while until the buses are quieter for pity’s sake.
Disabled people couldn’t possibly have a reason to be outside at the same time as good, hardworking folk. Why don’t they just lurk in the shadows where they belong?
weight gain is a byproduct of not being able to walk or move or stand for very long without trouble
Weight gain is a byproduct of consuming more calories than your body expends. Not everyone can walk or be active, but everyone can put the fork down. It’s quite simple actually
It’s quite simple actually.
Or is it?
Do you take into account that:
- Most processed food are created around the bliss point in order to make it as addictive as possible.
- Fresh food being more expensive and/or more time consuming to prepare than processed alternatives.’
- the existence of food deserts.
- advertising pushing unhealthy and addictive eatings habits down our collective throats with little to no regulations (why not do what we did with alcohol/tobacco in a lot of countries?)
- bad habits formed during childhood such as empty calories used as rewards, etc.
Imho everyone can put the fork down as in everyone can stop smoking or doing any drugs really. It’s possible but demands an extra effort that not anyone is able to put in at any given moment (without even taking relapses into account).
To me it really has some “it’s your fault you got conned” vibes ^^’
When I was in college I lost weight when I had no access to a kitchen. I ate a lot of fast food but just counted my calories. Sometimes you have to do weird things like skipping the buns on a burger but it’s really not that hard
I’m glad it wasn’t that hard for you ^^
But I think you’re confusing hard and difficult.
Well there’s that and the fact that if you’re a tradesman --or woman, or whatever-- having a truck or van can be pretty crucial to your ability to make a decent income.
I currently have a company vehicle, but for years, prior to my current position and when I was a contractor, I was obliged to own my own truck or van for very basic practical reasons.
Yeah, that’s why public transit and multi purpose zoning are important
exactly. fuck cars
shrug and?
I know most people want “New cars” and fine, go chase that over priced luxury, but I’d rather a car that’s 1-2 years old that’s dropped more than half the price, and being passed over because new shiny thing came out.
People shouldn’t have to drive beaters, but buying a car for 10k isn’t a bad decision unless you’re extremely well off our only care about status symbols.
Like there’s a reason I was able to buy a house, and a good job helped, but also my wife and I lived with in our means, which is something I feel that isn’t talked about in the consumerism age. (You can buy something new, but for most things you don’t need a yearly iphone/car/or anything. A good 50 inch tv works well for a tenth of the price of the newest one. ) And yet I see people complain about not having a lot of money yet they’re always talking about the newest graphics cards, newest tvs, and newest tech… I wonder why.
I’d rather a car that’s 1-2 years old that’s dropped more than half the price […]
Except that doesn’t really happen anymore. Shoot, I’ve seen some cars appreciate in value after they roll off the lot in recent years. Hoping that reverses soon, but it sure isn’t like it used to be.
Take the Toyota 4runner for example - they’re incredibly reliable because they are simplistic in many ways with bullet proof components. You can even find 5 year old models that are within 5k of a new one.
Look at this guy with his $10k…
Get a better job. If you can’t afford a $10k car, you’re doing something wrong…
You understand that if someone in a low paid job gets a better paid job, the low paid job does not disappear in a puff of smoke? That the proportion of people in low paid work is a function of political decisions as to what the economy should look like?
I mean, the headline is fucking ridiculous (we don’t need anything like 10% of car sales to be new cars). But so is giving careers advice as a solution to the high prevalence of shit pay.
Why don’t I strap on my job helmet and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire off into job land, where jobs grow on jobbies?
The only thing that’s being done wrong here is you defending the system and not the individual.
I got a 2021 car last year with 6000km on it . It was almost full price .
Probably because it only had 6000 km on it. Average is closer to 15000 km/year.
Yeah it’s insane. I bought a 1 year old Hyundai and knocked tons of depreciation off an already cheaper brand.
At my work people be driving around in leased Range Rovers/AMG Mercs. Then they will take the piss out of my car.
Seriously? I now have more disposable income because i’m not wasting it renting a car and also I own my car… It should be me bragging
Don’t look at pickup prices. Mine was worth the same at 2 years as new.
A decade ago I was able to buy a shitbox Silverado 1500 crew cab for under $15k that ran till it rusted out from under me halfway back from the moon. It hauled garbage, pig feed, and two moves without a complaint. Same truck today would be $30k minimum and at that price I’d be too afraid of scratching it to have any fun.
So sell it and get new
I have a 2020 rav4 and it is only valued at $3k less than what I paid for it brand new. This isn’t a reality anymore.
Arguable the case for purchasing a brand new vehicle starts to make more sense as BEV become the majority as the batteries are a consumable that degrades with use and time. So long as the increased price is offset by the longer utilization of that battery.
Yeah, of course… But they’re also replaceable. You can even check the individual cells, swap out the worst ones with cells from other used packs, and end up getting back up to decent capacity. There’s a whole statistics, mean time to failure aspect to batteries - it’s not going to take them back to new, but swapping out the worst cells can get you a lot better performance
Or you could just replace the batteries with newer, likely better, battery banks. The first option needs a certain scale, but would be cheap, the second would be a straight range upgrade over even the factory range.
There’s also the fact that electric cars are much more mechanically simple - this is unlikely to catch on under our current economic system, but it’s way easier to swap electric motors than an engine…
My points being, I think we need to make way less cars, and electric cars are actually easier to repair (at least from a physics and resource perspective, hostile design and economic pressures could easily eat up that difference)
we need right to repair laws for cars so this is possible
The problem with replacing individual cells is you’ll end up with cells with different wear levels which means different discharge rates and capacities (max voltage). The battery management system can mitigate some of the problems that arise but can only do that while chargering. While the battery is in use or sits for an extented period of time the cells will try to level out the voltage difference causing loss in capacity and a potential fire risk if the cells are too out of balanced.
Replacing the battery with new better batteries isn’t really an option either as any significant increase in power density would be from a change in battery chemistry and that would also require changing out the on board charging circuit and related systems. There’s also the issue that the majority of charge points providers state in their TOS that the use of any aftermarket parts or modifications to your battery or charger is forbidden so you are essential blacklisted from using any DC fast charger.
That’s why I mentioned pairing cells from multiple used battery packs… This isn’t magic, it’s numbers… You pair like with like, and by removing the underperforming cells, you get rid of the dead cells bringing down the whole bank because they can’t hold a charge. The fire risk is also greatly overstated… Batteries and management circuits have come a long way. You could swap in new cells and it would be fine… It would just be a waste, the new cells would degrade faster than their spec sheet implies.
And as far as matching like with like, you can build a lithium cell tester at home to profile each cell for a few dozen dollars… Literal hobbiest level stuff
And you most definitely can upgrade with newer, better batteries. There’s three numbers - energy density, voltage, and discharge rate. You can upgrade the density to the moon, so long as the other two match it’s a drop in replacement… And these three things are a tradeoff when you build the battery, so a better battery bank with the same output and voltage is just going to make you car run further, easy as that.
Yeah, TOS might stand in your way, but that’s economic pressures, not an engineering issue. We could entirely solve that problem through force of law. On the topic, let me take this opportunity to promote right to repair - companies are going to feed us a lot of bullshit reasons why we need to throw it all away and replace everything fresh… They have every incentive to make us believe that. It’s less work for them to say “that’s not an approved use”, they make far more money if they convince us they are the only ones that can fix it… it’s an economic alignment problem, the engineering solution is well understood
but also my wife and I lived with in our means, which is something I feel that isn’t talked about in the consumerism age.
the problem is the basic cost of living is going up beyond what can be afforded and people scream at you about not making extremely bad decisions you didn’t even make and don’t have to in order to end up struggling.
I have no idea why the Dacia Sandero is not brought to the US. $15,000 for a new car. They would be competing with the mirage and Rio all of which cost much more and are lower quality.
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When have most Americans ever been able to afford to buy new?
Has the US been anything but a scam since its inception?
After the “cash for clunkers” thing reduced the used car market buying new made more sense because of price and warranty. You also get better financing rates on new vs used. Bought my Subaru new in 2019 and could sell it for about what I paid.
I was told in the 90’s that in America if your car was 3 years old, your neighbor might worry you weren’t doing too well, and you could buy 6 year old luxury cars for peanuts.
Luxury cars are notorious for not holding their value, unless by “luxury” you mean performance cars, so that’s normal.
I was born after the 90s so I wouldn’t know, but generally speaking I’d always heard the average car in America is ten years old.
Experts say you should not spend more then 30% of your income on housing (shelter, heat, water, sewer and electricity). If you need a car (live outside a city, have bad city planing, etc.) then this is one more pressure on people.
The current “normal” world exists now only for people making a lot more then the average.
Oh and to better illustrate the gap between prices and wages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage Compare to an average price of 48k https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43611570/average-new-car-price-down-still-high/
Honestly you shouldn’t even spend that on a car. Cars lose value overtime and are a bad investment.
Take your money and put it into a emergency fund or retirement
This is bad financial advice I hear all the time. People don’t buy cars as an investment, they buy them as a consumable item or a form of entertainment.
Nobody says you shouldn’t go to the movies because it doesn’t generate a return.
It’s not really bad financial advice, and people will absolutely tell you to skip some of the frivolity in the idea of generating a return. I don’t think most people think of a car as an investment, but I do think that it’s entirely common to spend way, way too much on a car for basic transportation. Giant trucks and SUVs that start at 40k are like the most popular cars in America. Most people probably really do need to be told that they’re over-spending on cars. Like, the last time we bought a car, I had to talk my wife out of a monster SUV because she was like “well what if our kids want to take friends [on the two trips we take a year]?” Like, the other 50 weeks of the year, she’s solo commuting 10 miles… I’m not making fun of her, this is sort of the default mentality in this country. In the end we settled on a smaller crossover for half the price ( < $20k) and the agreement if we wanted we’ll use the money we save to rent an escalade or whatever if we want to take a big trip.
I have seen entire families with kids going to school on a moped. Mom dad and three little ones. You don’t have to take it to that extreme but you are right. For all but the biggest families a regular sits 5 car is enough.
I think you’re missing the point. Purchasing a utility item for its utility is fine, just don’t splurge on a car when that money is far better put into housing, healthier foods, education, etc.
I also don’t understand the whole “it depreciates in value” angle. Yes, everything I buy new depreciates in value once it is no longer new. I’m not buying a car to immediately sell it. So who cares?
Are there people out there flipping cars like they do with houses? Maybe tell those people.
I bought my car new and people told me the same thing. I’m still driving it 13yrs later and have had no major maintenance issues; only regular maintenance like oil, tire rotation, lube etc. The most expensive thing I’ve put into it are new tires.
I’ll buy my next car new again and do the same thing.
“Are there people flipping cars like they do with houses?”
Yes. Dealerships. Used car lots. People who offer you $3,000 on trade in and turn around to sell the vehicle for $9-11,000 after a detail and oil change.
People should never trade in or sell their car to a lot/dealer, because they are almost always settling for about a quarter of its value. But the convenience of not having to find a buyer is awfully tempting.
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, but I’m talking about new cars. Outside of profiting off of EV rebates as someone else mentioned, I don’t know of anyone buying new cars to flip. Which is why talking to people about immediate depreciation seems silly to me.
Are there people out there flipping cars like they do with houses? Maybe tell those people.
I’ve read if people buying new Teslas (with some kind of credit for buying an EV), driving it for a year or so, selling it for more than they paid and then repeating the process. Not sure if this is a viable strategy anymore (don’t know if Tesla has that much demand anymore).
The movies don’t cost as much as a car (hopefully). If you want to save money stop dropping it on useless things. You may need to cut back and actually budget. I’m still surprised at the number of people who don’t even track there spending
Good. Now tell everyone who owns a house that. Do you have a house that you live in? Congrats! You own an asset. One day you might get very lucky and get slightly more than what you paid for it, after inflation, but don’t count on it.
Thing is, if you need a car you cant afford to not have one. My options are buy a used car or a new car. Used cars are difficult to gauge reliability. And anything less than 5 years old is only ~5k under the price of a new car.
Mf subaru people had the gall to show me 2018 forester with 20k miles on it and be like “$29,000”. For reference, a new, 2023 forester with no miles costs $31,000. Insane.
Your choices are currently: buy a reliable used car for the MSRP of a new car and less warranty, buy a very old, unreliable used car for 2x-6x what it was worth 3 years ago, or buy a new car at or above MSRP.
Shits fucked yo.
My car cost $5,000. It a old Subaru with some hail damage and I do most of the work myself. It leaks oil but that can’t be helped.
Don’t go buy a modern car. They are made cheap and overpriced.
Ok, so there is no public transit here and even though I walk and use my peddle powered bike for in town whenever I can, I would not be able to make a living without a car like thing. No one with half a working brain is thinking that their daily driver is an investment. Hell a lot of people (me in the past) spend more working time in that car then not. A car like device is not a optional luxury for most people in North America. This is sadly the world we live in outside of major (and even not all major) cities.
A car doesn’t need working heat and doesn’t need to be cosmeticly pleasing. All it needs to do is get from one point to another
And nether of those things are needed for a car to be unaffordable. It is like you don’t know what a car costs that works. used prices for absolute garbage is high due to the fact most of the market can not even think of buying new cars. Less new cars means less used cars later.
the car industry is digging itself a grave
I guess my experience has been different
A car doesn’t need working heat
yes it does, for safety reasons. I’ve been in scary situations with windshield fog before, I won’t drive a car without a working heater
I guess that’s why used car prices are through the roof too. My neighbor bought a nice but 6 year old car 2½ years ago, he can sell it now at he same price he gave! We bought an older car 4 years ago, and there is no way we can get a similar deal today, prices in this segment have almost doubled! And the prices were already inflated 4 years ago.
It’s ridiculous how expensive used cars have become.
