His grand vision remains to leave Mastodon users in control of the social network, making their own decisions about what content is allowed or what appears in their timelines.
I don’t use Mastadon cause I don’t care for micro-blogging, but nevertheless, I like this.
Copy-pasting a comment from Aurich (Ars Staffer):
I set up the Ars Mastodon instance, and speaking as a relatively educated and technically savvy person I found it extremely confusing. And the more I learned later the more I don’t feel remotely bad about being confused, it’s honestly pretty messy.
I put Ars on the main instance, and I think it was the right call. We’re not going to maintain our own, at least at this time, and trusting a random instance that’s very difficult to vet is kinda sketchy.
We ran a guest editorial a while back that I think really clearly outlines the various issues:
But you know, it’s really okay. It doesn’t have to be big, or popular or mainstream. As long as it survives and people like it? That’s good enough.
I think going into an era of balkanization of social isn’t the worst thing.
One of my complaints with Mastodon and similars is that you can’t search only for posts of a specific instance, or temporarily mute a single instance from your feed. There’s also some sort of “invisible wall” for Pleroma users (niche of a niche), as their public posts simply don’t show up in public Mastodon searches, though I don’t know whether that’s a problem with Mastodon or Pleroma.
Now I am wondering if there is a way to blast a message out to various micro blog platforms at once. Kind of like Ryan’s Woof idea from the office
Wuphf!
From my limited knowledge, you’d need one account on each instance and have all of them boosting the original post, which would make them more visible in their local instances.
You can write a script to hit the API of multiple sites.
Why is there this very loud chorus of people touting bluesky as alternative to twitter instead of the far superior Mastodon?
Bluesky you are basically swapping a tyrant against a benevolent dictator, that dictator can become corrupted or sell bluesky to Musk Elon later on… That is not a solution that is more like procrastination.
Chris Titus on YouTube had a decent break down of some the technical points he liked more about it.
You can’t pry people away from their AI algorithms
Considering the people pushing bluesky are the same ones usually praising government surveillance, I don’t trust it for one second. Smells like a psyop honeypot.
Can you show me an example of that? Of the people pushing Bluesky also praising government surveillance?
The Washington Post published a guide encouraging and teaching users how to migrate to the platform.
But don’t take my word for it. Jump on and look around. It’s as crowded with neoliberals as Truth Social is with Red MAGAs.
Because BlueSky has designers and Mastodon is a nightmare for new users. Same reason a lot of “superior” open source apps never take off. Devs are rarely also good designers. Until we start caring about normal people it will stay that way.
Is this actually true? The UIs don’t seem very different to me. What is it about mastodon’s design that’s bad?
Just the UX rather than the UI. It’s also missing some features like quote tweets. But it can be confusing to onboard either your own instance and know that your discoverable or to join an instance and know how discoverable you are.
Like I am a career man in IT, servers, and networking. I have no idea if I were to run my own instance, who exactly on the network would be able to see my public posts
An app I use for Mastodon (Called Mona) allows quote toots.
Thats a good example of the UX issues, when only 1 specific app supports a feature.
I think the lack of quote tweets is a feature and not a bug. They facilitate a lot of antisocial behavior on other microblogging sites as I recall.
I think Mastodon changed their mind about it due to user feedback, and “Quote Posts” is on the current Mastodon roadmap. Not sure when it will be added - maybe sometime in 2025?
Anyone who is on a server that houses any other user that follows you. Not that hard to find out…
But also I don’t really see how that matters in practice for most pleb users, since 95% or them will join a large server, which means the practical answer is “nearly everyone on the fediverse, if they want to”.
That part I understand, but how can I get those first followers? And if I am just going to join the flagship instance, why wouldn’t I just join bluesky since it has more users.
Just trying to give a reason why people might shun mastodon for blue sky, this isn’t supposed to be a real argument against Mastodon. I’m on it and love it
Follow people and hashtags and interact with them and you’ll get followers. I barely post, just a few replies a day, and I have over 800 followers. I have a pinned post on my account to that effect.
I would join mastodon over bluesky because bluesky seems to be on the same mesh it to fixation trajectory as any other VC backed social network. But yeah, I get that most people won’t see that for another couple of years… Oh well. At least people are bailing twitter. And when bluesky goes to shit mastodon will still be there, and the rationale should be a lot clearer.
Follow people and hashtags and interact with them and you’ll get followers.
That sounds like a convoluted method of self promotion, almost like SEO fake engagement, just to be discoverable. And if everyone on the network had to do this to be discoverable, how can I trust the discovery methods to find people worth following?
And if the cross instance discoverability has these kinds of hurdles, then the promise of federation isn’t going to pan out.
At least with Lemmy the nature of the platforms, users following a smaller universe of potential communities, makes each community much more easily discoverable for people who don’t necessarily want to be active posters. Mastodon’s user-focused follow is much more limited in seamless federation.
Mastodon has an early days of Twitter feel to it.
Why is there this very loud chorus of people touting bluesky as alternative to twitter instead of the far superior Mastodon?
What makes you assume Mastodon is superior as a solution for the people who are flocking to Bluesky in droves?
At least this provides more time for mastodon to become better for even wider use. Hopefully bluesky wont go to shit too soon.
I think it is because Bluesky is simpler and easier to understand, as well as more familiar to use than mastodon. My favorite streamer said he is reluctant to move to the fediverse because of how different it is and the learning curve it has to it. I’m also, like, EXTREMELY new here and understand but once you start to get used to it, its easy to see how the fediverse and this “New Social” wave is far superior; the only hard part is getting “normies” to try it long enough to build enough familiarity to see that.
Is it just the choosing-a-home-server thing, or something else?
That and finding relevant things or anything at all sometimes; also I hear that people want to see everything like a friendica environment but don’t like the differences from the social medias they know already. I’m not sure if it is all valid or relevant because I am extremely new to the fediverse in general myself.
Mastodon could definitely do with some more discovery methods. Hopefully something like bluesky’s starter packs get implemented eventually (but I understand why they aren’t rushing it, there are abuse risks).
Best approach for now on mastodon is to follow all the hash tags you’re interested in, and then follow everyone in your feed who posts anything interesting. Takes a few weeks to ramp up, I guess. My feed got good once I was following around 1k users. You can always unfollow if someone’s annoying.
Thanks for the tip – new to fediverse altogether and my most annoying challenge is the social aspect of finding people to connect with and making an interesting feed! Lemmy has been the easiest; right above friendica!
Yeah, Lemmy is good because of the topic and threading focus. Mastodon seems better for exploring lots of issues. I’m finding them fairly complementary, they cover different bases.
Still need something I can pull my IRL friends in with though. Pixelfed might work for people who are used to Instagram, but I think it’s probably still a bit sparse content wise.
I guess I don’t understand. Why would someone want to “find” microblogs of people they don’t already know about from elsewhere? It’s like wanting to find someone’s email to me.
Not sure; I guess as a new person, I’d like to find micro blogs about topics and things that I might agree with? I was never really into twitter or micro-blogging; I don’t really understand the appeal but I figure since it is a social media, you might want to find similar people with like-minded blogs or whatever? Like I found a new up-coming political streamer that I like from another. Maybe that isn’t what micro-blogging is for and I’m off base.
Because Bluesky has a marketing budget.
“We need to get away from these billionaire-ran social media sites! Ooh, a new billionaire-ran social media site!”
Same with the people who fled reddit and set their communities up on Discord…
bluesky has more funding for self-promotion.
It has more features, and most people don’t know why Mastadon might be better. The average person doesn’t even know what a server is.
Mastodon has far more features. What it doesn’t have is centralization.
What features?
Lots of little things that add up. Some of the better include temporary muting, hashtags, and hashtag subscriptions. Plus it is resilient with no single point of failure.
I’m pretty sure Bluesky has hashtags. Subscribing to a hashtag and muting someone temporarily is nice. I think the main feature Mastadon is missing is discovery algorithms. Most people use that heavily on social media, whether they admit they value it or not.
What is this, then? It’s on the front page of a Mastodon server before you log in and afterwards the discovery section with posts, hashtags, people etc. is on the search page after login. Bluesky was far harder to get a decent feed going on till people started building lists (and those are pretty flawed in that you only follow the individuals - not the list - so it doesn’t update for subscribers).
Oh cool, I didn’t realize they added that. I tried Mastadon a while ago and couldn’t find anything interesting. I don’t use any micro blogging apps.
You just got the answer in the headline and you answered yourself.
Mastodon’s interface creates a self-selection bias of more technically inclined people, and is too dissimilar to twitter for the average user to want to invest time in learning it.
I keep hammering this point every time this is brought up, PR and NAMES matter! BlueSky is a nice non threatening name, Mastadon is an awful name for an app. It sounds way too close to mastrubate.
Wasn’t this same ceo criticizing Zuckerberg last week for shutting down fact checking?
Getting really mixed signals here. What’s with the back and forth on this guy’s approach to centralized authority?
Isn’t it decentralized authority since every instance controls what they allow, not the CEO of mastodon?
As I understand it. It’s just weird that this same guy was praising centralized authority at Facebook last week. Something seems off.
I would think there is a priority order in his mind. Decentralized fact checking, centralized fact checking, no fact checking. His actions fit well with that. Also, I believe zuck wasn’t using only one asset to do the checking. He was using multiple fact checking sources. So it was kinda decentralized. I would expect this guy would rather see the user choose the fact checking source for content they see.
Using multiple sources that support the same pro-western narratives means little. It doesn’t make a lie peddled by the IDF any better by delivering it through multiple outlets.
Same here. I still try to use it once every day in support but I don’t like having such a low limit (or any limit at all, really) on how many characters I’m allowed to use for my posts or response. I am more of a macro-blogger as I tend to be very verbose; especially posting online. I do, however, think it is important to create accounts, use and donate to the project that is mastodon; as they are leading by example in this “New Social” era or movement we are all apart of. It would be a shame that something like this isn’t able to continue, let alone expand, because not enough people supported the project – even though such project is giving the people exactly what they wanted and asked for. Let’s all try to show our support behind such a bold and selfless decision.
I don’t like having such a low limit (or any limit at all, really)
Instead we should see value in opinionated software, when the alternative is software that tries to do everything for everyone.
152k to 1.5 milhouse is definitely an astronomical increase. Where does that number come from? For that matter…has he been funding all of this on his own up until this point?
I agree that 1.5 milhouse is quite a lot.
everything’s coming up thrillho
What does ceding control even mean? Mastodon, just like Lemmy, is federated - each instance has its own governance. It was never controlled by a single person to begin with.
He can cede control of the GitHub repository, I guess, but:
- That’s giving the controls to the contributors, not the users.
- The article does not even hint at the existence of source code, and the announcement itself doesn’t talk about changes in that aspect either, so I don’t think that’s what’s happening here.
In as much as FOSS can be forked, it’s not really completely controlled (and there are a number of active mastodon forks that federate fine with standard mastodon servers)
Of course you can fork it, but you can’t call it Mastodon. That’s trademarked. Just like how you can fork Firefox but have to call it Waterfox or Iceweasel or Librewolf.
The confusion here is between Mastodon the company and Mastodon the software and instances of the running software. Eugen Rochko owns the first two. He also owns the instances mastodon.social and mastodon.online. Everything else is outside of his control.
Someone is still in charge of the git account. No matter how many commits there are being made, unless the owner of the repo approves to merge them, it’s not happening.
And sure, someone could create a fork that includes their changes if they aren’t being merged, but then this separate fork might at some point lose compatibility with the original software. And on a purely semantic note, this fork wouldn’t be the original mastodon either.
its an org, it can have multiple owners.
Once it is an organization, yes, that’s the whole point. Right now it is still an individual, that’s the point I was trying to make.
no it’s not? https://github.com/orgs/mastodon/people
unless we’re talking about different things?
That’s a virtual structure in github, not a legal construct. Those organisations have owners (minimum 2), but if they collude and go rogue, they can do quite a lot of harm. (See also https://docs.github.com/en/organizations/managing-peoples-access-to-your-organization-with-roles/roles-in-an-organization).
A formally incorporated nonprofit organization has statutes, organs, supervisory boards and all that by which they must adhere, so once set up properly, the software would be fully protected from malicious intent on a legal level.
…but you were talking about the git project in the parent comment? the rest of the thread is about company structure.
Noj profit does not have owners per se, but it is still controlled by somebody
I was thinking specifically about the github.
Ain’t he putting it under a non profit structure?
dunno. they were talking about git so i was assuming we were talking about git.
While this is a good move, I don’t think John Mastodon was making anywhere near the kind of money to turn into the next Musk or Zuck to begin with.
You can see exactly what he made in 2023. The report is available here.
€60k
I read that url as blog.johnmastodon.org and for a second I was seriously wondering if that name was real lol
He’s no Tim Apple.
Or Jennifer Facebook.
Or Lenard TikTok III.
Zhang Wei can change his name to whatever the fuck he wants he’ll still ve Zhang Wei TikTok
Please, “Mr. TikTok” was my father, call me Zhang.
Not now, but in the future that was a possibility.
I mean in the future it’s a possibility I’ll be fucking Zendaya but that doesn’t mean it’s reality now does it?
Are you in a space/career where you could conceivably interact with Zendaya?
Yeah, I don’t get it. Mastodon is already huge with millions of users and hundreds of instances. Rochko is already on speaking terms with Zendaya, if you will.
mass market media can only understand the world through the lens of mass market media
I have recently been using it more to connect with others on a new subject, but now for the first time ever on the internet since early 00’s, we are all owners of it ourselves. All the great new stuff was always owned by others and frankly I’m sick of it.
I never even liked twitter. Then I followed #nature and #bloomscrolling on mastodon for a while and my home feed was a feast of beautiful pics. So now there’s one use for me for microblogging. Neat! Mastodon does what it says it does and even offers ‘default’ instances. I’d love for some GO’s to help reach that donation goal quicker, so we can all get with the program and ditch corpo social media. -Why doesn’t my library host it’s own peertube?? #MakeLibrariesGreatAgain
we are all owners of it ourselves.
Not unless you run your own instance you aren’t.
I couldn’t find any legalese on mastodon.social that my toots are somehow not my property. While it’s true that I no longer have total control over its distribution, that doesn’t mean I have somehow relinquished ownership.
You seem quite confident that that is incorrect , with your one line reply. Could you link or explain where you got this information?
Could you link or explain where you got this information?
Common sense. The instance admin deletes the instance (or your posts) 'cos the coffee was bad this morning… there goes “your property”.
Obviously orders of magnitude better than commercial social media but it’s no silver bullet either.
There, 3 lines.
We should not expect greatness from the men who create these corporations, they are not great men, they are not even good or especially intelligent men. They fell into their position by luck, the one in a million triers for whom circumstance clicked into position. The only thing that sets them apart and perhaps accounts for their success is how they are so consistently open to sycophancy and manipulation by the pack of cold and savage business graduates that flock to any form of success. When a person is against type, as seemingly is the case here, they stand out and just once in a while are capable of real greatness.
Like it, like Bluesky too, uninstall Twitter after using these apps for several days.
Reject any app that has an forced automated recommendation system
I do wonder what prevents BlueSky from going the way Twitter did, though.
Nothing, which is okay. People make the mistake of thinking users have any even passing interested in a good platform with social media, not just the social connections on it.
That is why Bluesky can be so successful: It’s an absolutely smooth and effortless drop-in replacement for Twitter, and has no gathered enough momentum for it to be easy to find existing people you want to follow on it, further drawing more people who you might want to follow in. So the motivation to use it is there, and the switch itself is essentially unnoticable.
I mean it kinda already is a Twitter, just 5 years in the past.
Bluesky is still running on VC cash. We haven’t seen how they plan on monetizing it yet, but if anything that is where their major fuckup will happen.
We haven’t seen how they plan on monetizing it yet
Enshittification once they have enough users, that’s usually how these things go. I swear we don’t learn.
All of these applications (yes, also Lemmy and Mastodon) are feed for the AI machine. That’s where the money is.
And ads probably.
Absolutely nothing. I fully expect it to follow a similar trajectory.
If lemmy ever catches on ^doubt it’ll be a reddit fractal.
^doubt
You need to do double caret ^doubt^ for the proper formatting. Yeah, the markdown is a bit weird. lol
Oh? It works for me? Maybe it’s a sync hiccup.
It has a public protocol.
You still have to go through the central hub. You can’t spin up your own, wholly independent Bluesky. You can only make your own node.
This is not true.
The App view, relay, PDS, and mobile app, code is all open source. Anyone can spin up their own version if they want.
If you want a complete copy of bluesky (reflecting the bluesky post firehose) it’s prohibitively expensive, but you can spin up your own version if you want.
The only thing that’s missing is bluesky federating anything other than PDSes by default, but you can 100% go in the other direction.
A good overview is here: What bluesky is and what bluesky is not
I wonder if we’ll see p2p versions of the firehose so people can seed posts from accounts they trust/like as a way to make firehoses affordable for the public to run
Especially considering the lead dev was the creator of beaker browser https://beakerbrowser.com/
It’s not something where any one person can really host their own instance long term — though people still do (for now). But AtProto is designed so a reasonably-sized company (or maybe a well-funded foundation) can host their own instance and either make a clone or do something novel.
As I understand it, the core difference is just the scale of what you’d have to host. ActivityPub only downloads what users on an instance interact with so you could easily run your own one-person instance on a home computer. A BlueSky instance downloads everything so you’d essentially need the scale of BlueSky (which is already in the terabytes)
The upside to AtProto for users is that your username and content are all portable and you can switch providers (or even use multiple) and not lose anything. ActivityPub’s downside is that it can leave you at the mercy of your admin. Not a big deal on the main instances but there’s been some drama moments where some admin freaked out and those users essentially lost their account.
AtProto/BlueSky was originally envisioned (pre-Musk) as Twitter being semi-decentralized so it’d essentially be the hub of a wider ecosystem. But, obviously, the world’s worst truck designer had other plans.
Yes, it’s not a full web3 app, but I like that these apps are heading in the right direction.
However it’s better than Twitter/Instagram. I can control my feed!
Twitter also looked great until it didn’t, it even comes from the same guy.
While at this moment BlueSky looks good, we will end up the same way sooner or later. Muskov et. al. figured out how to monetize social media. Now Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and others are tools to manufacture opinion. And certain opinions are worth a lot to certain people.
Reddit was open source at some point too.
it even comes from the same guy
The seed money came from Twitter, allocated by Jack Dorsey and he had a position on the board that he didn’t really make use of. He literally left because he is against centralised moderation and didn’t have enough influence to prevent bsky implementing it.
Until they build “The Algorithm” to “help you” find what
youthey want you to see or not.Feeds offer algorithm transparency and you can use alternative frontends. ATProto can’t suddenly be turned to private and disable third party access, it is intrinsically public.
That’s a red herring, they still have full control of the network.
The Internet needs fewer Stalins and Hitlers and more George Washingtons.
More slave owners it is then!
It is an imperfect system, but my comment was more about leaders not clinging to power to the detriment of society.
I was just kidding. I understand what you meant. Monkey paw wish. Lol
Fuck yeah RTJ
Yeah, it’s refreshing to see someone not be an Absolute Dick™ on the internet for profit.
The blog discussed progress on a “privacy-respecting search tool” that could be used to explore the entire Fediverse, a collection of independent social media networks that Mastodon connects to. That could make it possible to discover more content without depending on a “For You” algorithm mining user data.
Inshallah. Lack of search is my biggest gripe with Mastodon.
Lack of search is my biggest gripe with Mastodon.
I follow hashtags, it’s how i discover interesting content for me. I only use the search function to follow specific accounts.
So do I, but I can’t even search for my own posts. It’s frustrating.
An interesting real time experiment to see how long it takes for stratification caused echo chambers and/or extremists zealots from both ends of the political spectrum to seize control of the platform. Turning the platform into a hellscape of zealots fighting each other for dominance and the eradication of all the others.
Sadly, humans as a rule need adult guidance for polite interactions to prevent violence. The sad part is it has become impossible to pick said adult capable of doing the job. And anyone in their right mind should run from such a job anyway.
Just like what happened with Ecosia. We need more humble people in the world!
Please enlighten me as to what happened with ecosia?
The founder stepped down in ownership and made sure he couldn’t sell it.
His grand vision remains to leave Mastodon users in control of the social network, making their own decisions about what content is allowed or what appears in their timelines.
So uh… Mastodon will not have a moderation team?
I mean this makes sense, but how exactly is after-stopping-moderation Meta different then?
Do you think Eugen has been personally moderating all Mastodon instances up until now?
He hasn’t. Obviously the moderation system has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.
Interesting way to say you don’t understand federalisation. While using a federated platform.
Interesting way to be wrong. While thinking you’re being correct.
I think you know what they meant. “Mastodon” is not a platform, it is essentially a protocol. You cannot have a moderation team for Mastodon by design. The individual instances of Mastodon CAN have moderation and many of them do. That’s why you pick an instance to register an account under instead of going to “mastodon.com” and signing up on the front page.
The article and move isn’t about moderation of the content, it’s about development of the platform itself.
