For example I looked up Kenyon Martin today. I remember him being an all-star so I figured he must have had multiple 20/10 seasons. Turns out he never averaged more than 17 ppg and only got 10 rpg one season.
Muggsy Bogues surprised me positively. I thought he was just a role player like Early Boykins. Turns out he had several seasons averaging over 8 apg and a couple seasons averaging over 10 apg.
Ben Simmons is actually a 1st team All NBA defensive player … can you believe it ?
Yea, very easily actually.
It would be easier to explain if yall here play bbgm
Reggie Miller. Thought he was a multiple 20+ scorer over the years and was 1st tier all nba, but only had 5 all star appearances to go with it.
Same. I always think of him as one of the 5 best SGs ever but in actuality he was probably closer to a Kyle Korver (good starter, borderline AS) than Kobe or DWade level superstar
kyle fucking korver? really? go watch some reggie miller and send him a written apology for that comparison
Kobe once called him the hardest player to defend so take that as you will
For sure. He was the model for Steph running guys through a gauntlet of screens
This might be one of the dumbest comments ever.
The NBA was A LOT different when he played. Very few players even touched 25+ points per game, maybe like 3 a year. Miller was consistently near the 20 mark and that was extremely impressive for the time.
Nets Jayson Williams having been good for an absolute maximum of three seasons was crazy to me.
I assumed since he had been an All-Star that he had at least been a guy. Nope. And because of the injury, there was nothing on the back end either.
Grew up watching the Rockets when Calvin Murphy was one of the commentators. Knew he was a Hall of Famer, one of the best free throw shooters ever, etc. But I was blown away when I looked up his college stats and saw that he averaged 48.9 points per game as a freshman. I don’t care what level or league or conference it is, basically averaging 50 for a season is stuff of legend.
For some reason, I thought Craig Ehlo was a multi-time All-Star with Cleveland.
Turns out he averaged 9 ppg for his career and never made it once
Did you confuse him with Mark Price?
Popular name because of the player and team who ripped him apart game after game.
same but because i thought craig ehlo and dan majerle were the same person
Clyde Drexler’s offensive rebounding numbers
I had no idea about this until I read this. I’ve seen a handful of Clyde games on NBA Classics and some Youtube hilights, but I’d never noticed offensive rebounding. Great stat.
He was getting as many OREB as Reggie Miller was getting total rebounds
Damn, fuck Reggie specifically?
I am always surprised by the fact that Reggie only was a 5 time all-star. Someone like Lowry has more been an all-star more times than Reggie
People underrated Reggie at the time
Reggie is a weird case because his counting stats and accolades aren’t super impressive but advanced stats love him. One of those players that is weirdly both underrated and overrated at the same time in current historical discourse.
Reggie is in no way overrated.
There was a good post on r/nbadiscussion talking about how he was snubbed a few times of All-Star selections like the one year they let fan voting alone determine starters and B.J. fucking Armstrong started in the All-Star game which helped push Reggie off the team as one of the snubs.
Jason Kidd finishing 3rd all time in three point makes when he retired, 60% of Wilts shots were fadeaway jump shots
And the rest were inside hand finger rolls somehow
I know he develop his 3 pts when he was in Dallas. But was surprised he was that high.
He made plenty of 3s beforehand. He maxed out at 2 though, it’s not like the 3pt list was that insane by the time he retired. He’s gonna get lapped 100 times over in the next 10 years.
Where did you find that Wilt stat?
Older heads here will remember when he was called Ason Kidd ‘cause he had no J.
Yeah his 3pt shot was developed.
Jason Kidd shot 5 3’s a game by his 2nd year in the league at a 35 % clip. His career average is 35%. He’s always had it, only difference is he became more dependent on it as his athleticism dwindled
33.6% more precisely, and his second year was with the shortened three point line.
He didn’t always have it. Even his free throw percentage early in his career (usually a good indicator of whether a player can develop a dependable long range shot) was quite low. A lot of his development came through reps and hard work.
His three point shooting was alright even in his prime. What was truly atrocious about his scoring repertoire and earned him the nickname “Ason” was his midrange shooting. Kidd’s FGA during his prime were 40% from the midrange and he was converting them in a sub-40% rate.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kiddja01.html
He was below average from 3 for 8 out of his first 11 seasons
so mavs were lying about the “three J’s”
50 PPG and 60% of his shits were fade aways.
I gotta go watch some wilt
Sounds like Embiid…
embiid with a ring
You should have been more brutal and said he’s made it past the second round of the playoffs
Which is why wilt > shaq imo
That’s a horrible take. Wilt did that mostly against garbage competition. Shaq is the most dominant force to ever step on a court. Won twice as many titles as wilt in arguably the toughest era.
Biggest nephew award goes to ^^
Wilt only won 2 titles in the most garbage era. Cry about it. Rudy Gobert would look like bill Russell in the 60s.
You’ve once again outdone yourself with the nephew takes. I’m not even gonna bother responding seriously because you HAVE to be trolling at this point lol
Because there’s no way you can argue that that wasn’t the least competitive era without looking stupid.
Wilt beat Prime Kareem. he was a much more skillful scorer than Shaq and a better playmaker as well, his sixers team broke the record for wins in a regular season. he was constantly facing a Celtics team that had multiple HOFs.
Gobert would be like the 5th best defender if he played in the 60s/70s. plus his deficiencies in the post would be enhanced in a league where post-play was so important.
Where’d you find that wilt stat
Shareef Abdur-Rahim was lowkey solid wit it, Elton Brand has to be the biggest surprise with how good bro lowkey was when you go back and look at it.
Raja Bell was a bucket
You never hear much talk about Nate Thurmond, but he averaged 20.5 ppg and 22.0 rpg in his best season, with several other seasons in similar territory. I found that pretty crazy. On paper he should be a candidate for all-time starting 5 considerations, probably in the PF spot since it’s the thinner spot compared to C. On paper he was Rodman with 20 ppg scoring, which would be the best 4 ever.
On the other hand, it looks like rebounding stats were inflated across the board back then when you consider what Russell and Wilt were also doing in the 60s.
You need to go google Tim Duncan
Interestingly, he never made an All NBA Team, even though he finished second in MVP voting in one year.
Making All NBA as a center back then was tough, with just two teams and guys like Wilt and Russell always taking a spot or two.
you can’t really compare 60s stats to 90s stats. there were ridiculous amounts of missed shots, high pace, and very defined roles compared to today, so tons of rebounds for the taking for big men. Also on average, played north of 40mpg, and even 45mpg at his peak.
Thurmond averaged 22rpg in 1967-68, grabbing 1121 shots in 2222 minutes (across 51 games). The big difference is the San Francisco Warriors played at a pace of 123.6 possessions per 48 minutes, while the league average last season was 99.1, meaning nearly 25% more possessions.
If he played the exact same amount of minutes at a league average pace today, you’d be looking at about 900 rebounds in 51 games, or about 14.6 rebounds per 36 minutes, roughly the 5th highest rebounds per 36 minutes in the NBA, below Drummond (18.8), Adams (15.4), Capela (14.9), and Valanciunas (14.7), among those who played at least half of last season.
It’s also unknown how many of those are offensive rebounds and many could be tips off his own misses, which would explain a rather low FG%, even for that era.
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Since you referenced to Rodman, who played massive minutes but in an era where pace was in the low 90s rather than 120+, his rebounds per minute and per possession absolutely clear Thurmond by several points throughout his prime.
Sounds like the guy was almost as good as Paulo Banchero’s rookie season?
Kevin Johnson
He averaged more points and assists than other great point guards like Kidd, Nash, and CP3
TIL KJ was the mayor of Sacramento
He did some scummy things. But, he helped keep the Kings in Sacramento when the Maloofs wanted to relocate to Vegas, Anaheim and Seattle.
My ultimate NBA hipster gear is an Anaheim Royals shirt.
To be fair, had his career not been cut short due to injuries, he most likely would have been on that list of greats point guards.
Shorter run tho. He was great for that short period.
Rodman’s rebounding numbers still shock me.
18.5 rebounds per game over a 2 season stretch… What the actual fuck…
Speaking about rebounding, Danny Fortson is a practically forgotten undersized big who was a beast on the boards for a while.
He was a 6ft7 power forward, who would also play at center at times, that averaged 12 RPG (and 4 ORPG) in a season twice. Once with the Nuggets in the 1998-99 season and once with the Warriors in the 2001-02 season.
He constantly played on bad teams and only made the playoffs once in his later years with Seattle, but he was a terrific rebounder who isn’t talked about at all now.
He got numbers but man he was a bad player lmao. I remember watching his in Golden State. He was one of those selfish empty stats me first type of players.
Damn. Couldn’t even tell you how many years since I’ve seen that name
I remember him having back to back 20 rebound games.
Go back further to his college years and he averaged 25.7 pts and only grabbed 5.7 rebounds per game over 3 years.
Drummond has a higher career rebounding rate per 10 possessions
Rodman was an SF for the first 5 years of his career
I didn’t personally look up these stats but thinking basketball podcast recently did an episode of the best finishers (scoring efficiency and volume 3ish feet or less from the basket) and they mentioned that tmac and Vince carter were basically league-average finishers.
A significant part of t-mac’s scoring was his 3 point volume. VC is known for crazy dunks, but many were only possible because of his tendency to avoid contact. Avoiding contact is not conducive to efficient finishing.
Adrian Dantley having 4 of the top 7 highest fg% seasons with at least 30ppg.
He also had a lot of turnovers, top 10 in three seasons, and actually led the League one year.
Dennis Rodman never averaged a block or steal per game in any season
This seems crazy. I had to look it up because I thought you were trolling.