So I’m pretty new to the industry and I got comfortable enough to offer Holiday Minis in my area. I did two dates, each mini was $100 (Extremely reasonable given that other photographers in my area were offering the same thing for $250+ but I kept my price low because I’m not as experienced and have never offered mini sessions) and I only got 3 bookings total.
Anyway, first shoot was amazing! The kid was a little tough but parents were SUPER involved in getting him to laugh, they were shocked I got photos of them with their kid at all as the goal of the shoot was just to get updated holiday photos of the kid for family. Second shoot doesn’t go as well, the kid is about 2 and the parents do not care at all what he does. He un-decorates my tree which I tried to just work with and take pics as though he was decorating it, ultimately the pics weren’t great but he wasn’t having it and the parents didn’t seem to care or want to control their child.
This brings me to my worst client and the one that has me questioning what to do. Family of 4, mom is ready, dad clearly doesn’t want to be there, 3 month old and 2 year old. I took a total of 340 pictures, I extended my 15 minute window in a desperate attempt to get one good photo. By photo 45 the 2 year old had knocked over my entire Christmas tree TWICE and I removed it from the shoot. The mom and I were doing everything we could think of to get this kid involved in the shoot. I sang songs, I encouraged her to show me the plastic ornaments, to show them to her parents, to find the pinecones I hid in one of the gift bags, I tried to just take photos of her wandering, I tried to tell her to tickle her mom, kiss baby sister, give dad a big hug, etc. She wasn’t fucking having it and the dad was ZERO help. Just sat there looking miserable the whole time. Of the 340 original images, I have 2 good ones. The rest are blurry, look SUPER disorganized, only have one person looking, or just overall look bad.
WHAT do I do? Do I offer a refund? Do I offer a reshoot? I didn’t make hardly any money off these shoots as it is, and I truly don’t want to work with these people again. But I also feel REALLY bad for the mom because it seemed like she desperately wanted a good photo of her family! What on earth do I do?
As a portrait photographer of 10+ years I would not offer 15min sessions. What a nightmare! My number 1 priority is making sure my clients are comfortable and relaxed and with some people that can take 30mins.I also do makeup and hairstyling, so that aids in setting the atmosphere and getting people to relax. I do wonder what the motivation for newbies to do minis is. It seems that you do not feel confident in your craft and thus you need to charge as little as possible.
Photography is important and should be highly regarded - That starts with photographera themselves. It’s not fast food. You are capturing and documenting people’s lives, moment, milestones and creating images to cherish.
Here’s a tip, photograph friends until you feel like you should charge properly. Offer a mini shoot session to a group of friends and their kids on the proviso that they share and recommend you. Gather Google reviews etc. Get good at your craft! I’m much more a fan of newbies shooting for free rather than undercutting my profession. Also mini sessions undercut you. My sessions don’t include any prints and my prints start at $200. I’m not even the most expensive, but I know my worth.
Here’s the thing if you compete on price and discount your services you will attract complainers.
Your prices should be worked out based on what you need and want to make in a year, not by looking at what everyone else in your area charges and then undercutting because you don’t think you are as good. Photographers need to stop doing that because at the end of the day, it’s not real or sustainable. I guarantee those other photographer did the exact same thing with their pricing.
So offer them a reshoot AND give their money back. Make sure you win them over and they walk away living the experience and the photos. Don’t set a timer, be there for as long as it takes. Connect with husband, he obviously felt uncomfortable. Make everyone smile and also don’t forget how very important it is that the mother is present in the photo. So many women are invisible as they aew always the ones taking the pictures of the kids with dad. What an incredible opportunity to learn!! Good luck!
From my personal experience all the successful and efficient family photo sessions that involve toddlers, were never conducted by a photographer alone. There were always an assistant of some sorts who actively get the kids’ attention, cause them to smile or laugh, and potentially stop your Christmas tree being knocked down.
Yeah no for a hundred bucks you’ve put in way more effort than expected. The second time the tree landed on the floor, I would’ve said that time was up and this isn’t going to work. Why refund? Did they bring it up? They know your time isn’t free. Charge and send the best photos and get on with life.
Can you collage the ones where only one person is looking?
On red carpets it’s quite common for groups to be looking at a different photographer each, so my usual approach is to shoot like an American and then merge in the heads to get a final image that looks good with everyone looking in the same direction.
Sometimes a refund is the cheapest option
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Deliver the two good ones right now, so she feels good.
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After a few days, deliver all rest of the ones that are actually sharp.
That way she knows it was her kid/her parenting that was the problem. She knows it’s not you.
I mean there’s no excuse for 345 photos in 15 mins and some are blurry. At least part of that is on photographer.
Like the above comment said, how fast is the baby moving that you couldn’t set up your settings appropriately?
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Honestly, I think some tough love might be appropriate here.
Of the 340 original images, I have 2 good ones. The rest are blurry, look SUPER disorganized, only have one person looking, or just overall look bad.
Young kids aren’t always gonna cooperate. But a few things stand out here:
- You’re charging for this service. Parents are going to expect that you have some level of expertise in trying to get them to cooperate. Yes, you can’t always get kids to behave, but you know who else you can’t always get to cooperate? The parents. There’s a reason the parents might not seem super interested or involved: They’re expecting you to handle it, since they’re paying you. You need to work on setting expectations with the clients first, understanding whose role is what, and laying out what you need from them and what you are able to do. One out of three shoots going well is not a good percentage for a professional.
- The results. I’ve seen plenty of photos where the kids aren’t looking, but the photo is still great. I’ve shot an event for children, I know it’s tough. But you’ve got to be a little better prepared. The other issue here might be time - you had a 15-minute window? That’s… wrong. More time than that is needed to get a good photo session. I’d recommend you never try to book something for only 15 minutes of shooting.
- Blurry shots. That one’s kind of on you; you should be managing your exposure settings to avoid that. A three month old isn’t exactly Usain Bolt. I don’t know if you were using flash or not (and while critical for regular portraits, I could see toning it down for infants and young kids). But you need to manage your technique and set up a more controlled situation if that’s coming up.
WHAT do I do? Do I offer a refund? Do I offer a reshoot? I didn’t make hardly any money off these shoots as it is, and I truly don’t want to work with these people again.
You’re a professional. Did you deliver what was promised? If you don’t feel like your photos were what was promised, you haven’t delivered your end of the contract. (Also, have a contract.) Keep in mind that even a full refund wouldn’t be great - those people took time out of their day to do this, maybe bought new clothes for their kid. Their reviews could sink your reputation before you even really start.
If I felt like I didn’t deliver what was expected, I’d offer them a choice of reshoot or refund, along with any of the shots you had for no cost. I’d consider partial refund and reshoot. That’s what I’d expect if I paid someone for a service and they didn’t deliver on it.
Finally, I don’t know your level of experience. However, it’s very common for people to jump into trying to make money from photography before they really are qualified for it. I don’t personally think there’s integrity in taking peoples’ money as your training opportunity rather than when you’re actually ready. But if you’re having issues with technique and cannot reliably deliver the results that people want, maybe you should reassess whether you’re in a fair position to solicit clients.
it’s very common for people to jump into trying to make money from photography before they really are qualified for it. I don’t personally think there’s integrity in taking peoples’ money as your training opportunity rather than when you’re actually ready.
I would tend to agree with this. The issue is that I also see a lot of criticism of new photographers when they work for free or very little - it seems like a big no-no in the eyes of many professional photographers. Which makes it feel like a lose-lose for new photographers, where they’ll be criticized no matter what they do.
On one hand, yes, it’s a difficult balance. There are absolutely situations where doing work for free is a bad idea, and there are situations where charging for work is a bad idea.
On the other hand, new photographers should be criticized, as long as it’s done constructively (i.e. with reasoning and possible solutions). You’re going to do things wrong, no matter if you’re brand new or extremely experienced.
Lots of good pints here and a very generous amount of time was put into this reply. Well done.
Finally, I don’t know your level of experience. However, it’s very common for people to jump into trying to make money from photography before they really are qualified for it. I don’t personally think there’s integrity in taking peoples’ money as your training opportunity rather than when you’re actually ready. But if you’re having issues with technique and cannot reliably deliver the results that people want, maybe you should reassess whether you’re in a fair position to solicit clients.
I would add to this that if one has no expertise in a field, rather than charge a third of the price accounting for it, which won’t make you rich, will not make the customer happy with quality and will damage the market, it’s better to serve as an assistant for a professional and when the expertise is acquired start asking for a price on par with the market
The other issue here might be time - you had a 15-minute window? That’s… wrong.
Agreed, and I’d like to add that 15-minute shoots are not where you start, they’re where you end. They are what you offer when you are absolutely confident in your abilities and you know you can get the shots you’ve promised and the client expects. It’s easy to think “they can’t expect the world, it’s only 15 minutes” - but they do. They expect that you know your skill level well enough that when you say you can do it in 15 minutes, you can do it in 15 minutes. And expecting the photographer to know how much time they need to do the job is entirely reasonable.
I’m doing a studio shoot in February, promo/PR pictures for a band. I’ve been shooting professionally for 13 years, but it’s all been journalism/event/concert stuff. I know how to navigate unruly crowds, get in-the-moment shots, tell visual stories, go with the flow, make my way through a sea of people to get where the action is. I look at what’s happening before me and find the best way to get the shots I need without impacting the scene at all. Studio is the complete opposite - I’m going to be lighting and posing the band, and I’m going to be able to impact what’s in the frame down to the smallest detail. Those are things I am very inexperienced in. So I’m going to rent a studio for at least five hours, possibly even eight, and make a whole day out of it so that I’m sure that when we go home, we’re all satisfied with what we’ve done.
(The band members are friends of mine, so that opens up some possibilities that I wouldn’t have with someone I don’t know. But that’s how you practice this stuff - you shoot in situations and with people you’re comfortable with until you know you could do a job of the same quality in half the time or less with people who won’t give you leeway because they know you.)
The TL:DR is - don’t do 15 minute shoots if you’re not certain you can do the shoot in 15 minutes.
Because holidays means vacation where I am from I was so confused about what jobs of sessions these were until the penny dropped.
you set yourself up for failure…
shooting small kids and having a christmass tree in reaching distance is just asking for the kid to want to play with the shiny things
shooting small kids without at least an assistant (childwrangler is what they are called) is asking for problems…
you can handle the kid, or you can be the photographer, not both
Good kindy and 1st grade teachers are amazing at controlling kids. Know anyone in that line of work? Have them join you next time and learn.
What aperture and exposure were causing the blurry images? Honestly I’m not a pro photographer, I’m just very curious and the info may help others help you out, especially if you plan a re-shoot. Hope you work it out and the clients are reasonable.
It truly was me quite a lot of the time. I wasn’t fast enough. This shoot was outdoors, and I shoot in manual mode (looking back I should have done some in automatic just to TRY to save my ass) my lense is manual focus so I the whole time the two year old is zooming around, I’m DESPERATELY trying to refocus. I learned a ton from this shoot, including that I will never be doing a propped shoot again
Refund and take it as a lesson you had to pay to learn.
The price you charge/market will always reflect the clients you end up getting.
Best example of this is FB market place, when ever i put stuff up for free the amount of rude, entitled messages you get, but just put a small nominal price on it, yes i get less traction but the transaction usually goes smoothly.
So never under value yourself, experience isn’t always the factor for pricing. (especially in artistic endeavours) if they like your work/style they should be willing to pay, and getting crappy clients will only ever lead to more crappy clients.
Perhaps you’re being too hard on yourself and too self-critical. Maybe have someone else (not the client) look at the photos and pick out some shots. They might see something you’re not, as they were not part of the shoot. I would hand over some of the better shots first before even considering a refund. Leave that for them to bring up if they feel necessary. They may actually not think the photos are that bad.
I say give them what you think is best and if they’re unhappy, give them all the unedited pics.
We hired a photographer for family pics while on vacation. Our son through a tantrum throughout the whole hour we booked her for. Our photographer was great and we didn’t expect the pictures to turn out well, but we got a few nice ones. It was actually a little funny going through the pics because in some you could see how worn down we were trying to wrangle in a 2 year old, lol. Also, my theory is you just need 1 pic you’re happy with to hang up on the wall and the rest can be duds.
She wasn’t fucking having it
Certainly, kids are tough to handle on many occasions. The times I’ve worked with kids and they don’t want to cooperate as much, I take a picture of them doing anything (doesn’t matter even if they’re looking away from the camera or looking down or up, just make sure their face is shown) and then show them the picture. I tell them something along the lines of “Hey, look at this! This is how you look! Do you like it?” In the few occasions I’ve done this, they go CRAZY about it and start laughing and smiling and overall more cooperative. Sure, this is not 100% guaranteed to improve their mood but is worth the shot.