The ability to change features, prices, and availability of things you’ve already paid for is a powerful temptation to corporations.

  • Rough_N_Ready@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Piracy was never stealing. It’s copyright infringement, but that’s not the same as stealing at all. People saying it’s stealing have always been wrong.

    • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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      11 months ago

      One of the great modern scams, was to convince society that unauthorized copying of data is somehow equivalent to taking away a physical object.

      • Coasting0942@reddthat.com
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        11 months ago

        Jesus didn’t ask for permission to copy bread and fish. It’s a clear moral precedent that if you can copy you should.

        What would the Jesus do?

        Checkmate Atheists!

      • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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        11 months ago

        So you also believe people shouldn’t need a ticket for a concert, for example?

        • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
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          11 months ago

          I don’t see anything wrong with paying for software or music or digital media. I don’t think that not doing so is theft - like I also don’t think that getting into a concert without paying is theft. By the way a concert is also not digital data, at least an irl one.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            A library card is your ticket there and libraries are paid via taxes, which is why they’re free at point of use.

            Attending a free concert is not stealing. Breaking into the Eras tour is.

            • snooggums@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              The library buys once and allows multiple people to read/watch each item without each person needing to individually purchase. Just like one person buying something and sharing it with others.

              The main point is that digitization distribution is not a concert

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                Digital distribution is a service. You can steal a service.

                If you fuck a prostitute and then don’t pay them, you are stealing from them.

                • snooggums@kbin.social
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                  11 months ago

                  If the prostitute uses a technique, and then you use the same technique without paying hem for reuse, is that stealing or does their direct involvement matter?

                  • sdoorex@slrpnk.net
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                    11 months ago

                    If you’re going to retype the code of a program from scratch, then your analogy is valid. If instead you are taking the production created through someone else’s labor without compensating them, then you are stealing from them.

                  • SCB@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    Prostitutes don’t become prostitutes because they know secret techniques.

                    The metaphor is describing the service provided, and that not paying for said service is indeed stealing.

                    Trying to make it a different metaphor requires a new framework from you, because you copying their actual service would be you pimping them, under this metaphor.

                • psud@aussie.zone
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                  11 months ago

                  It’s okay I won’t use their digital distribution system to pirate their stuff.

                  It’s just like falling to pay a prostitute you never fucked

                • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
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                  11 months ago

                  You’re not using their distribution service when you pirate something. That’s the whole point.

          • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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            11 months ago

            Libraries get money via tax. What people here are arguing for is that others should work for them or free. Because game studios, for example, are overwhelmingly not paid via tax money. They are depending on people buying their software. And many software has ongoing costs.

        • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
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          11 months ago

          Do you think I should be forced to pay for a ticket if I’m standing next to the concert venue on the sidewalk but can still hear the performance?

        • psud@aussie.zone
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          11 months ago

          I have never had a problem with people taking a tape recorder to a concert, even if it’s against terms of service

        • Cypher@aussie.zone
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          11 months ago

          The performers time is not infinitely reproducible so your argument is apples to oranges.

      • puttybrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        11 months ago

        If I made software that people cared enough about to crack and pirate, I’d be happy that it’s popular enough for that to happen.

        I am a software developer but I’ve only worked on SaAS and open source projects.

        • zerofk@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          I work on software which is pirated. It is even sold by crackers, who make money off my work. This does not make me proud.

          What does make me proud is when a paying customer says they love a specific feature, or that our software saves them a lot of manual work.

        • poopkins@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Pride unfortunately doesn’t pay the bills. It’s terrific that you contribute to open source, but not all commercial software can be open sourced.

          • psud@aussie.zone
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            11 months ago

            Popularity opens other ways to make money. Open source is profitable for GNU. Cory Doctorow does fine.

            • poopkins@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect every commercial product to find profitability through exposure. I can attest to this first hand as I had published an open source Android game that was republished without ads. This led me to ultimately make the repository private, because I could not find a way to remain profitable while offering the source code and bearing the costs of labor and various cloud services.

              On the flip side I guess I can take credit for the millions of installs from the other app… except they didn’t publicly acknowledge me.

              • psud@aussie.zone
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                11 months ago

                Was it under a “copyleft” licence (like GPL) that forces the other one to also be open source? Did you use a licence that requires you are acknowledged?

                If you did the first, you at least pulled someone else into open source work

                • poopkins@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  Yes, GPL.

                  At the time I had seen that it had been forked into numerous private repositories, I believe roughly 100 or so. Perhaps I could have made a claim to have the other app taken down through Google Play, but I had no faith that this would be resolved, and even if it would be, it would be an ongoing problem.

                  As for whether they would have made open source contributions or not is in the end a moot point for me, because the only change that I observed was that they changed the colors and typeface and extracted the in-game menu into a separate welcome screen. I would not have merged this back into my repository.

                  While I myself violated the copyleft of my project by taking it closed source, I felt that it was my only resort. I’ve continued to develop the game over the past few years and by modernizing it and adding additional content, I’ve been able to significantly outpace my competitor.

                  For me, this ordeal had been a bit of an eye opener. I came out of university fully supportive of open source and when I discovered how this affected a real world project, I genuinely approached this situation understanding that it was just a risk I needed to accept. However, in the three years that it was available on GitHub, I received only two small PRs, and combined with the license violations, I felt that there was really no advantage to keeping it open source.

                  While this is just my anecdote, it has changed my perspective on how open source can realistically work more broadly. I honestly can’t envision any kind of business that needs to offset large production costs able to publish that content viably as open source.

          • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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            11 months ago

            Most people who work on open source projects have a lucrative job and work on Open Source on the side. I also volunteer, but I still need a job that actually pays me as well.

            Reading some of the comments here it feels like speaking to little children who believe money magically appears on their account.

        • aksdb@feddit.de
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          11 months ago

          Tell me which so I can develop a competing service and steal your userbase!

        • satan@r.nf
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          11 months ago

          I’d be happy that it’s popular enough for that to happen.

          of course you would. you would actually give them your house and wife, because you’re so proud now. right?

          • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Ah yes, because downloading Shark_Tale.mp4 is exactly the same as someone taking your house away from you and obtaining your wife and owning her as personal property.

            Get some fucking perspective. I usually try to be polite online but this is just straight up moronic and you need to be told so bluntly.

      • iegod@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        You need to disconnect the badness with the term stealing because you’re just wrong. Yeah it’s ip infringement. Yes it’s illegal. Yes people are impacted. And still… Not stealing.

      • Rough_N_Ready@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        I have been for over 20 years actually! What do I get for winning the bet?

        Edit:

        One of our games we actually ended up supporting a form of piracy. A huge amount of our user base ended up using cheat tools to play our game which meant that they could get things that they would normally have to purchase with premium currency. Instead of banning them, we were careful to not break their cheat tools and I even had to debug why their cheat tool stopped working after a release.

        • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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          11 months ago

          How did your employer pay your salaries? Or did your money perhaps came from those people who actually do pay for in-game currency in your games?

        • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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          11 months ago

          Yes I am. And the two companies I worked for both were small, offered their products for cheap and still had people pirating the modules or circumvent licensing terms. It’s a legit problem that a lot of people don’t see why they should pay for software simply because it’s sometimes easy to steal it.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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            11 months ago

            circumvent licensing terms

            So to be clear: was it possible to purchase and own the software? Or did users have to pay a subscription for a license? Because personally I’m getting sick of every piece of software thinking it’s appropriate to require a subscription.

          • grue@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Yes.

            Well, not literally, both because I’m more inclined to “high five” and you can’t do either gesture over the Internet. But figuratively, yes.

            • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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              11 months ago

              Why don’t you just gift away your software than? That’s an honest question. You obviously aren’t expecting to be paid for it, do you think in general developers shouldn’t earn money with software or is it just you?