Several niche, left-leaning gun advocacy groups said that since the killing of Alex Pretti by federal agents in Minneapolis, they can hardly keep up with the surging demand for firearms training.
With Donald Trump sending armed federal agents into communities around the country, even more once gun-shy liberals and leftists are considering getting armed.
And while Americans tend to think of gun owners as leaning more Republican and male, already more women, gay people and people of color have taken up arms in recent years, particularly after 2020.
I swear, we see this article every six fucking months as though its news and not an ad to sell more guns.
More liberals buying guns is a good thing. I don’t think universal gun ownership is a good thing, but it’s better than the clear power imbalance we have now
Keeping a glock in your glove box does not change your relationship with the police.
No but going to a protest with a slung rifle absolutely does. In a funny way the talking heads are right about the gun Pretti brought with him. They’re right about the wrong thing, but a concealed sidearm presents no message inherently by being concealed. CCW is for polite people in polite society. What we have now requires the same tactics the Panthers used, visible intimidation. A low ready or slung rifle is just as legal to carry as a pistol, but if there are 20 or 30 protesters carrying, ICE might consider not having a gun battle in the streets. And history shows that they tend to back down.
What we have now requires the same tactics the Panthers used, visible intimidation.
And then Huey Newton, Malcolm X, and Fred Hampton lived happily ever after?
And Nicole Good and countless other unarmed people. The point is that we are already at risk of being pointlessly murdered for exercising our first amendment rights, exercising our second amendment rights in the manner I described is not going to make us less safe.
What exactly were you trying to say? Do nothing? You just pointed out what you consider a flaw in my argument and provided no counter. Did you just want to dunk on me? What’s the point in that?
More liberals buying guns is a good thing.
more guns, more accidents, more violence. Maybe instead of guns, people should do something crazy like vote.
Alex Pretti had a gun. How did that work out?
Probably a positive feedback loop.
Another article, another influx. That makes the next article news worthy
I think I’m going to ask my grandpa to teach me about guns and how to shoot. He’s on a farm and has a gun for protecting his chickens.
Lucky for me, my grandpa hates Trump. He’s always been democratic. So I think he will understand why I’m asking.
I’ll probably get a rifle. Maybe if grandpa has an extra I’ll just borrow it. Practice at a local range.
I feel like this is a skill I need now. Never thought I would unless I got my own farm and chickens.
Owning a gun isn’t good enough on its own tho. I need to know how to use it. And how to be accurate with it. How to maintenance it.
But part of me is like. … If I ask grandpa to teach me. I’m admitting something about this country and myself that I don’t want to admit.
-
That I need to protect myself/others because bad armed people are coming for us. -Thats terrifying
-
That I am preparing to kill someone if need be. -equally terrifying.
There is a responsibility here that I’m not sure I’m ready to take on. But it’s better to be prepared than not to be prepared.
I’m admitting something about this country and myself that I don’t want to admit.
Don’t feel bad, a lot of us have been down this road. I’ve done it several times.
We never stop learning difficult truths about the world around us.
I think the day you stop having these shifts in your attitude is the day you’ve finally stopped caring enough to actually self-examine, so it means you’re still alive and conscious if nothing else.
I hope if nothing else, you and your grandfather make memories together. We don’t always get to choose how and what kind of bonding memories we make with family, but take what you can when you can. It will be over soon enough.
They are terrifying things to admit to yourself. Hold on to that feeling, but train anyways. Because those thoughts will keep you from becoming like those republicans who gleefully wave their guns around and talk about shooting all the people they don’t like. And the training means you can protect yourself and others.
Guns are a tool that kills things, and so you never pick one up unless you intend to kill. But sometimes, regrettably, you have to.
and so you never pick one up unless you intend to kill.
This is a bit overdramatic as many gun owners have only ever shot at targets on ranges
Using a gun to protect chickens is about as dumb as using a gun on peaceful protestors.
You know what they mean by it. Firearms are useful tools on farms.
Sure, I’ll just let the foxes eat them. Any other hot tips from the guy who definitely owns chickens!?
-
i got my gun license. told some of my friends about it and now they are suspicous that i’m secretly right wing.
you can’t win with this shit.
you can’t win with this shit.
The dirty truth of gun ownership is that the person you’re most likely to shoot is yourself. The second most likely person you’re going to shoot is someone who lives in the house with you. The odds of you firing a gun in self-defense, much less actually harming anyone, much less harming a federal official intent on arresting you, is vanishingly small.
People with bull horns and rape whistles are doing more to shut down ICE than anyone packing heat. The campaign to blast ICE agents with noise in their hotels has had an enormous impact on where these agents can operate and how enthusiastic they are to position themselves in a given metro area. People simply crowding out ICE in their cars has gone a long way to diminish their presence in Minneapolis, LA, and Portland.
Like, if you’re worried about your safety and you want to organize in community self-defense, you can do it. You can join mobilized groups ready to take the fight to ICE in a way that’s effective. But just shoving a .22 in your pocket and having fantasies of Rambo: First Blood isn’t going to cut it. Indulging in these fantasies does absolutely raise some red flags about your political persuasion.
So is driving a car. Is driving a car stupid and pointless then?
I got a gun because I want a gun. Just like I have a car because I want a car. I barely use my car, but it’s sure awesome to have one when I need it and a lot better to have it and not need it than to not have one at all.
I’m not campaigning against ICE. I am not under any delusions of grandeur here that my .22 pistol is going to stop what is going on. It’s for target shooting and being halfway decent when i go shoot guns with my family on the holidays.
Is driving a car stupid and pointless then?
If you can’t tell the difference between driving a car and firing a gun, you should be allowed to own neither.
they are both tools for a job.
you seem to think the only point of owning a gun is to commit violence against other people. you’re wrong.
you seem to think the only point of owning a gun is to commit violence
You talk about a gun like you plan to open your beer with it.
what is so mystical and magical about guns to you? that you think they are a special thing?
I can also murder people with kitchen knives, btw. plenty of domestic and non-domestic violence involves knives.
i have a non-chalant attitude towards guns because I’m familiar with them. i also have a dog. some people who don’t have dogs freak out around my dog because they are afraid of dogs.
what is so mystical and magical about guns to you?
Small tubes full of explosive shrapnel aren’t magic. They’re just hazardous when improperly owned and operated.
Multi-ton gas powered rolling steel boxes are also hazardous when improperly owned and operated. That’s why we have all these standards for licensure, ownership, and use.
I can also murder people with kitchen knives, btw.
Sure. People are fragile. You can crush someone’s windpipe with your bare hands.
I don’t think your ability to do this manually should encourage anyone to stock up on machines that do it rapidly at long range.
If you suggested everyone should show up at an ICE detention center wearing hockey masks and waving meat clevers, I would tell you this is a bad idea. If you suggested everyone should sleep with a kitchen knife under their pillows, because it would keep them safe from a SWAT raid, I would strongly disagree.
You’re pitching individualist solutions to a broad social problem. There is nothing you can purchase retail that will remove ICE from your neighborhood. And there are hazards that come with gun ownership that you seem deeply invested in ignoring.
some people who don’t have dogs freak out around my dog because they are afraid of dogs.
If your response your sense of insecurity is to go out and buy a Bully XL on impulse, you are making a mistake.
I think this is an argument to have a gun and not have bullets.
I have some friends who have used guns in violent situations, to successfully avoid violence. I have zero friends who have fired a shot in such situations.
Guns can also just… be a hobby.
I have bicycles. I don’t ride them as some political statement. I ride them because it’s fun.
Something that may help is explaining that gun control policy originated as a means of disarming minorities, specifically black people.
Black Panthers in Oakland, CA would open carry and follow cops around whenever they came into black neighborhoods, in an attempt to curtail the rampant police brutality black people regularly endured. Naturally, a bunch of old white 2A-loving Republicans (including the fucking NRA) didn’t like that, and altogether signed off on the Mulford Act, the first major gun control legislation in the country, supported by “2A advocates” (read, in this instance: racists) for the sole purpose of better allowing police to terrorize black citizens.
I was once pretty strongly anti-gun too (less for political reasons and more because I saw a guy get his chest blown out at work when I was in my early 20s), but the knowledge that the true intention underpinning gun control and anti-gun legislation has always been to disarm and weaken marginalized communities changed my mind.
Not sure it will help with your friends, but idk. Worth a try maybe.
they don’t care about history, facts, or reality. just crude stereotypes that anyone who has a gun must be a trump supporter and how their anti-gun ignorance makes them morally superior. they have imaginary bullshit lines in their head. like if i bought a truck it would be the same ‘betrayal’ to them.
Allowing the enemy to be the only group who is armed and trained is not very bright position your friends are taking. A lot of leftist are armed because we know that all these threats that the right keeps making towards us are serious
i never said they were smart people. but where i live it’s a super common attitude and I am the weirdo.
To me guns are just tools. I think tool nuts are just as weird as gun nuts.
I know one guy who just collects expensive tools to oogle them and doesn’t even use them. He buys like $200 hammers.
Allowing the enemy to be the only group who is armed and trained is not very bright position your friends are taking. A lot of leftist are armed because we know that all these threats that the right keeps making towards us are serious
Been a liberal gun owner for a decade. Once in a while, I go to a range and these numbnuts want to talk politics thinking I’m “on their side”. Like no dude, I’m here to practice to protect myself from people like you!
That’s okay. I live in a state where the main sponsor of banning assault weapons has gone out shooting the very same weapons after they got their nonsense bill passed.
Keep in mind it bans firearms with threaded barrels in other words we have to be deaf to train and use our firearms but she doesn’t.
And this is why they now want gun control.
They don’t want “gun control”. They want “justification for their use of force”.
Trump would have loved if Alex Pretti had actually pulled his gun and landed a few shots before he was taken down. He’d have loved if Renee Good had actually hit an ICE agent with her car. These events could have served to justify their draconian misconduct, at least within his own conservative base.
Tightening gun laws to the point where all the regulations around private ownership don’t matter is about explaining away why you can pop someone in the head while crossing the street and claim they were breaking the law after the fact. It isn’t about restricting gun ownership. There’s virtually no fear among these federal agencies that any liberal group might organize an effective military deterrence. Nobody is actually afraid of the “liberal gun owner”, because individual lone wolf gun owners aren’t an effective opposition to a well-organized and well-funded Gestapo.
They’ll buy a gun, do some basic training and never touch it again. Too bad they didn’t find this urgency when it was only brown people being targeted.
Dude shut up. It’s never gonna be enough for you, is it? “Oh well they picked up some garbage on the side of the road but DIDN’T SOLVE GLOBAL WARMING SO THEY ARE LIB SHITS!”
Oh someone joined a left leaning gun group and might want to start getting more involved? “FUCKEM I’M GONNA GATE KEEP THE REVOLUTION THEY ARE POSEURS THEY SHOULD MAKE THEIR OWN GROUP!”
So sorry some people are new to this or changing their mind and not doing something big and dramatic that looks exciting enough for you, even if they suddenly changed their minds and agreed with you 100% that’s not good enough they should’ve thought this way forever ago.
Freaking hamstringing your own movement because you hate the newbies? Don’t want to do the boring long work of permanent change? Just want to sit back and think of a communist commune Israel but don’t want to wash the dishes?
Let the people in, be welcoming, show them the ropes. Encourage people to practice with their gun instead of shitting on them. If you’re already in these groups, you should want your numbers to grow, not be a gatekeeping twat.
Pull your head out of your ass.
The .ml users are really out in force today working hard to not beat the allegations.
I’m convinced to get the .ml suffix you have to prove you’re, white, 14 years old, hate your liberal middle-class parents, and feel overwhelming resentment towards people who actually care about better outcomes because Mom didn’t let you get a tattoo of Lenin on your shoulder.
Letting liberals into leftist spaces halts progress. We end up needing to fight with them more than whatever it is we are protesting. All the stuff liberals call leftist infighting is us fending off liberals trying to invade our spaces and control the situation. We do NOT want the same things. Liberals want reform, which does not work.
We end up needing to fight with them more than whatever it is we are protesting
Oh, do you need to do that?
Take your tribalism and shove it.
For every person who wants to help that you sneer at online (because I know you couldn’t face them in reality) I will be working in the real world to help bring real people over to start working for better outcomes, secure in the knowledge that even if I can’t change the whole world and make everything better, I can reduce harm here and now and continue to push the needle towards a better world. I’ve been at it for years, and seeing cynical little shits on the internet whine and cry about seeing other people nurturing unity only makes me more committed.
You can just stay in that basement and whinge while real people do real things.
I can reduce harm
Liberals have claimed for decades they are harm reduction while somehow harm keeps growing. Keep deluding yourself. Liberals contribute to harm by keeping the wheels of facism greased up. They will accept milquetoast concessions by their party to expand ICE with reforms,. In the meantime nothing changes.
If you believe in something, and want to fight for it, your first priority should be trying to convince other people it’s a good idea. Your attitude does more harm than good; you’re incapable of thinking people can change their mind, because you’re incapable of changing yours.
It makes more sense to get people to like your idea than pushing them away, unless you think you’re going to do it with force.
And alienating people means you wouldn’t even be able to do that.
It makes more sense to get people to like your idea than pushing them away, unless you think you’re going to do it with force.
I’ve seen incels do this online for decades now. They’re not really looking for better outcomes, they want to feel that “normies” hate them so much that it validates all the hate and cynicism they feel. You can’t feel bad about not doing the actual hard things in life to organize and be liked by others if everyone else hates you and thinks you’re a monster, right?
It’s creating an environment of alienation so they can justify not wanting to change or help anyone.
I’m not alienating anyone, i would be willing to work with their organizations, but not to invite them into leftist spaces so they can neutralize our movements.
Yup, better not to do anything at all now.
“Buying a Gun” is next to nothing.
Buy a bullhorn and organize with your neighbors to scare ICE out of a hotel. Buy a camera and organize with your neighbors to tail ICE vehicles patroling your neighborhood, to keep your migrant neighbors safe. Buy masks and jackets that protect against tear gas, then park your cars in the detention center driveways so ICE can’t move people into these buildings easily.
There are people who are doing something. They are not the ones shopping at Walmart for their first glock.
It increases the chances that one of these ice dicks will get a taste of their own shit.
More Charlie Kirks have gotten got in the last year than ICE Agents.
That’s what they will do
that’s the point of owning a gun dude. you’re suppose to not want to touch it.
i own three hammers. how often do you think I’m using them? like once a year or two.
The idea is constant training so when you do use it muscle memory kicks in and not panic
amen
Most of them will, but even a small percentage going on to get involved in leftist gun groups is still a win.
What I’ve discovered with liberals joining leftist spaces is they like to colonize the entire movement and neuter them. They should be welcome to work with us, but not in our spaces.
The Socialist Rifle Club is a prime example.
The Socialist Rifle Club is a prime example.
A prime example of what? Can you explain what has happened to the Socialist Rifle Club?
It was taken over by liberals that call themselves socialist to distance from the toxic word Democrat, and they brought their fascist light into the organization demanding everyone fall in line behind them driving the actual socialists away
When any group grows the diversity of thought within it will grow too bringing more perspectives.
This is like saying libs should join the NRA or the Proud Boys. I’m sure they will appreciate your “diversity of thought”.
It’s not as if liberal or unaffiliated gun clubs don’t already exist.
I mean, different perspectives would benefit those groups.
You aren’t entitled to membership or the facilities of any club.
It’s like trying to play tennis at a private basketball court then acting surprised when you get told to leave.
Just go to the tennis court, bud.
Most liberals do not have a diversity of thought, theirs is the only correct course and any other options are trying to get the other side elected. They can form their own organizations and others can work with them but to allow them within the ranks of existing groups is disaster
The irony is so dense it’s become a black hole
Liberals are toxic to liberation movements. You wouldn’t understand because you’ve never been part of a liberation movement
Please keep explaining how you’re the most right
I agree with ensuring not to subordinate leftist orgs to liberals BUT we must be open to them joining our spaces. How else are we going to bring our ideas to them? Many liberals just need a push in the right direction to seeing the web of evil that all comes from capitalism but they aren’t going to get that as readily if we are actively turning them away. We have to be willing to meet people where they are at and educate them especially these people self selecting into more radical groups who are definitely more easily agitated into broader political engagement.
We can work with them in their own organizations and share ideas and when they align closer to socialist/communist ideology then they can join us. Nearly 40 years of activism has taught me the Black Panther approach to organizing works best.
I fundamentally disagree with this as an effective tool for building a mass movement that is necessary for the change we want to foment. We cannot achieve these goals by beginning our fight as a fractured base - this is why political education is such an important part of the process in organizing new people into these movements. Not a single person raised in liberal society popped out of the womb as a leftist - every one of us had someone pull us into this fight in one way or another and kick start our development as political actors. As people able to do that for others now I see it as our duty to do so.
This is a legit concern. How do we stay radical and positive?
