The thing I think is that Iran is indeed an authoritarian theocratic regime and killed 3000 people confirmed by themselves, but so is Israel. The problem is the ipocricy in the judgement of a nation that should before look at it self and get that it’s not better than others. But we all know this
Most of those were civilians and security forces (2427 out of 3117). The other numbers floating around seem completely made up by NGOs and western media so it’s hard to know if there are more dead rioters.
how many is too many?
How many western regime change operations that inevitably create magnitudes more casualties is too many? Because that’s the “solution” that’s being talked about, not some actual people’s government
I’m not sure I understand the question, if you mean whether I trust any numbers the answer is no, but the government numbers are a good minimum estimate.
If the question is whether I support the Iranian government uncritically, the answer is also no, but based on past history it’s still an extremely stupid idea to support an intervention.
I believe Iranians deserve a break from the illegal sanctions that keep them struggling, once they can breathe they’ll decide in their own terms if they wanna reform or overthrow their government or whatever else.
deleted by creator
TACO
Palestine also.
Removed by mod
/s Yes they lied about Iraq but Iran is an authoritarian state that should be toppled. Two things can be true at once you know.
So many “fell for it again” awards need to be handed out these past few years.
What happens after it is toppled?
That’s the problem
Freedom arrives in the form of an US-backed monarchy. Oh wait.
Democracy ofc then ISIS but one thing at a time /s
you know, installing some al-qaeda dissident on power but he’s totally fine now since he uses a suit.
Typical imperial core chauvinism. They know their governments are evil but still cling hard to the idea that they’re the best therefore every non western aligned country must be even more evil.
“If my country is evil while calling itself the leader of the free world, other countries must be super evil”
can you post the latest Time Magazine cover and point out its pushing war propaganda again ? thank you
I read this to the tune of Yakko’s World
Iranian state tv gave an official death toll of 3117. from aljazeera, famously pro US outlet.
Correct, there have been thousands of deaths, not the fantastical numbers in the 10s of thousands reported by Hasbara accounts and western media, and not the result of the IRGC one-sidedly slaughtering people en masse but intense riots and turmoil. Exaggerating tragedies and changing the nature of real events is exactly how western atrocity propaganda functions.
that’s still pretty damn far from the 30’000 that’s floating around in western media
yes it is, not saying it isn’t
I’d guess the real number is cliser to hrnwa which is around 10k
Why guess a number without better information?
“I’m more comfortable trusting the CIA funded outlets without any evidence, I am very impartial”
What was the lie about Ukraine?
Russia didn’t invade Ukraine?
The invasion was completely unprompted and nothing happened in the years immediately preceding it.
There’s a few to choose from. Like the war started in 2022. Ukraine doesn’t have a nazi problem. Euromaidan didn’t have any western interference. Zelensky doesn’t have Epstein ties.
Forgot the best one, Russia bombed it’s own gas pipeline!
This one is practically 200% proved that wasn’t the case so liberals behave like “I never said that”
They really have no shame, Biden straight up said they would destroy the pipeline if Russia ever did anything and so they did but media tried to spin it as if Russia did it 😅 that should be eye opening to anyone but americans have the memory span of a mosquito.
I know we like to spread misinformation online on this here .ml instance, but that might be too much even for you. Also, everyone knows that the war technicality started in 2014 when putin did the first invasion, I don’t even understand what kind of gotcha that might be
Which part of QinShiHuangsSchlong’s comment was misinformation? Can you articulate how and why? Further, the war started as a consequence of Donetsk and Luhansk seceding from Kiev into the Donetsk People’s Republic and Luhansk People’s Republic, following the far-right western-backed coup of Yanukovych. Once the Banderites took power and started oppressing ethnic Russians, the DPR and LPR seceded.
Which part of QinShiHuangsSchlong’s comment was misinformation?
I’ll bite.
Like the war started in 2022
The only people saying that are the clueless Americans. Everybody in Europe understands that the war started in 2014 when russia invaded Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea.
Ukraine doesn’t have a nazi problem
Ukraine has as much of a Nazi problem as the US, France, Germany, Poland, or any other country on the planet. Sure, there definitely are Neo-Nazis there - like everywhere else. But the narrative was that the government was “overrun” by them, where in fact the most right-wing party received 6% in 2014 and less than 2% in 2019. Meaning, as of right now, there no fundamentalist right-wingers in the parliament, much less so in the government.
Euromaidan didn’t have any western interference
Define “western interference”.
People sending food and blankets to the protesters? Yeah, there was that.
Western governments silently supporting whoever opposed Yanukovych? Possibly, maybe. But those people weren’t really doing much.
CIA/Mossad inciting the streets to rebel against the government in an attempt to coup Yanukovych and install a pro-western ruler? Yeah, that one’s lunacy. Yanukovych got in power because he promised a more pro-western route in politics, the people wanted to be a part of the EU and NATO since 2001. Then, in 2013 things were starting to look really promising for Ukraine, and exactly then Putin ordered Yanukovych to reverse course, because he was afraid about his oil contracts. When Yanukovych did that, people went to the streets.
Zelensky doesn’t have Epstein ties
None of the to-date released documents mention him as a guest or client of Epstein, so I don’t even know where is this coming from.
Further, the war started as a consequence of Donetsk and Luhansk seceding from Kiev into the Donetsk People’s Republic and Luhansk People’s Republic
The “secession” was made by russian troops illegally entering the sovereign territory of Ukraine. The “referendums” were made under threat of violence from armed russian soldiers.
The reality is that the war started because Ukrainians wanted to join the West, found oil and gas reserves and already had contracts with BP and Shell for extraction, all the while Moscow’s contracts were expiring in 2023.
Once the Banderites took power and started oppressing ethnic Russians, the DPR and LPR seceded.
That’s one of the most hilarious things I’ve read in a while :D
The only people saying that are the clueless Americans. Everybody in Europe understands that the war started in 2014 when russia invaded Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea.
But this is wrong, still. Crimea joined the Russian Federation, and Donetsk and Luhansk seceded, in response to the far-right Banderite coup.
Ukraine has as much of a Nazi problem as the US, France, Germany, Poland, or any other country on the planet. Sure, there definitely are Neo-Nazis there - like everywhere else. But the narrative was that the government was “overrun” by them, where in fact the most right-wing party received 6% in 2014 and less than 2% in 2019. Meaning, as of right now, there no fundamentalist right-wingers in the parliament, much less so in the government.
The Banderites were the ones that overthrew Yanukovych, and as a consequence have been emboldened by the state. The far-right governs Ukraine.
Define “western interference”.
People sending food and blankets to the protesters? Yeah, there was that.
Western governments silently supporting whoever opposed Yanukovych? Possibly, maybe. But those people weren’t really doing much.
CIA/Mossad inciting the streets to rebel against the government in an attempt to coup Yanukovych and install a pro-western ruler? Yeah, that one’s lunacy. Yanukovych got in power because he promised a more pro-western route in politics, the people wanted to be a part of the EU and NATO since 2001. Then, in 2013 things were starting to look really promising for Ukraine, and exactly then Putin ordered Yanukovych to reverse course, because he was afraid about his oil contracts. When Yanukovych did that, people went to the streets.
From @yogthos@lemmy.ml
- Reuters, 2014: Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA151VA/
- Leaked recording between Nuland and Pyatt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoW75J5bnnE | transcript
- Counterpunch, 2014: US Imperialism and the Ukraine Coup https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/10/us-imperialism-and-the-ukraine-coup/
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made https://consortiumnews.com/2022/02/26/robert-parry-the-mess-that-nuland-made/
- Monthly Review Online, 2021: The Maidan massacre in Ukraine: revelations from trials and investigations https://mronline.org/2021/12/11/the-maidan-massacre-in-ukraine/
- Maidan coup thread https://archive.ph/BAxYc
- Coup details https://consortiumnews.com/2022/12/29/evidence-of-us-backed-coup-in-kiev/
- Don’t Get it Wrong: Ukraine and “Israel” are Both Tools of US-EU Imperialism
- An article from August 2021 advocating inflicting a military defeat on Russia in Ukraine to subjugate it and draw it away from China https://nationalinterest.org/feature/strategy-avoiding-two-front-war-192137
- An important piece that reveals Washington, via CIA paramilitaries, has been fighting a proxy war against Russia in the Donbas since, it’s implied, 2014. https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-secret-cia-training-program-in-ukraine-helped-kyiv-prepare-for-russian-invasion-090052743.html
- NYT coup coverage with CIA involvement https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html
- Nordstream US involvement evidence https://thegrayzone.com/2023/06/27/evidence-nord-stream-underwater-expedition/
- The US harvesting Ukraine for minerals https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-us-rare-earth-minerals-deal-8566241ea0e121a30437d845357055d8
None of the to-date released documents mention him as a guest or client of Epstein, so I don’t even know where is this coming from.
Kiev is a gangster state with immense corruption. I haven’t seen any direct Epstein ties, but it would be unsurprising.
The “secession” was made by russian troops illegally entering the sovereign territory of Ukraine. The “referendums” were made under threat of violence from armed russian soldiers.
The reality is that the war started because Ukrainians wanted to join the West, found oil and gas reserves and already had contracts with BP and Shell for extraction, all the while Moscow’s contracts were expiring in 2023.
Nah, this is bullshit. Yanukovych was very popular in the regions that seceded:
The Banderites wanted to move towards the imperialist west, but Yanukovych wanted to go with the Russian loan that didn’t require austerity politics and impoverishing Ukrainians even further. That’s why the west supported the coup.
That’s one of the most hilarious things I’ve read in a while :D
Laughter instead of responding isn’t a point.
Lol, you accuse Zelensky of being connected to Epstein but after providing exhausting links about Western involvement in Euromaiden (fine we helped, fuck Putin and his corrupt mafia regime, that is insanely well documented) you fail to provide a single link/email/document on Zelensky being linked to Epstein despite millions of Epstein files on the net.
Secondly you’ve not provided any proof that Zelensky is a “gangster” (a well known celebrity comedian, who some how forced Russia to invade Ukraine 4 years in 2014, before he even became president… Where do you dumb fucks get this shit from?)
Thirdly Russia had to invade and hold phony referendums in order to somehow prove eastern Ukraine didn’t want to become part of Europe.
Keep on making shit up you dumb ass.
I’m no fan of American imperialism either but the regime in Iran is actively massacring their civilians on a scale never before seen during protests, I have Iranian friends and they know full well that America and Israel don’t have their best interests at heart, and yet they still want them to intervene because they don’t see any other way for change to happen. My Iranian friends don’t even really like Reza Pahlavi but he’s the most significant figure in these protests and so they’re supporting him purely in solidarity with the people.
It’s a very complicated and nuanced situation and it can’t really be reduced to a meme like this without losing important context.
Hahaha you’re literally doing the thing. Good stuff
“My Venezuelan friends are celebrating”
Imagine having a nuanced opinion? Crazy
Nuance is when your opinions about other countries always coincidentally and conveniently line up with what the US government wants. Very nuanced, you incredible free thinker you.
Nuanced, like celebrating civilians from your own country being bombed 🤓
How many countries do you have to destroy before you stop falling for regime change justifications?
Don’t misunderstand, I’m not American, I don’t support America, in my personal and professional life I’ve been making every reasonable effort to decouple my life from America (hence why I’m on Lemmy)
I didn’t even say that I support America invading.
The reality of Iran is that every few years since the 1979 revolution the people become discontent enough to start protesting, and every time the government harshly cracks down on those protests, and in both the process and the after math, many people are killed by the government for protesting. That’s an oversimplification but serves to illustrate my point.
My knowledge and understanding is based on my Iranian friends, who fled the country as refugees and left their friends and families behind, because of the oppressive government.
Those same friends do not like America, but they aren’t left with any other options but to support America. Not a day goes by that they don’t complain about the willful ignorance of the European Union and the world at large for being silent, only last week did the EU even decide to label the IRGC as a terrorist group.
The UN and international courts should be the ones trying to intervene and at the very least stop the regime killing tens of thousands of their own people.
They “do not like the US” but they be doing their best to promote the US interests huh. Useful idiots that know they have no public support in their own country.
Don’t bother, mate. This is crazy people country, I don’t think you can reason with those dudes…
What a fantastic excuse not to try. It’s not that you’re blisteringly ignorant, it’s just that everyone around you is mentally defective.
I am more than happy to have a discussion, I’ve tried to outline my views and understanding of the situation in a clear and concise way and I invite any and all questions made in good faith.
My personal politics do not even remotely align with America, even on Iran I’m fully aware that America has only selfish intentions, and am appalled by it.
This is the first time in my adult life that I’ve even considered an invasion to be in any way beneficial (which would only be a by-product in this situation) But the Iranians around me are telling me their choices are either:
- get shot, arrested, executed by their own government
- or invite a foreign power who might give them a little more personal freedom while milking them dry of their oil and resources
Please tell me what you think the international community should be doing? After Russia it’s already the most sanctioned country in the world, and those sanctions have contributed to the discontent that fuels these protests.
Please tell me what you think the international community should be doing?
They should be condeming the US and not participating in the criminal economical blockade? Iran wouldnt be so tight if they weren’t blockaded it’s literally the same story every single time, korea/venezuela/cuba/syria/iran, and y’all always play ball and follow the western stance, you are either useful idiots or just cynical assholes.
Your iranian friends are american bruh. Iranian diaspora protesting in the US are americans. If these “well meaning” iranians haven’t learned a thing about US intervention in the region, they’re not “well meaning”. They want their ex-country destroyed out of resentment and pettiness, just like the average miami cuban or venezuelan. These people do not understand “nuance” at all, they’re just full contrarians.
I mean like the entire protest origin is due to financial pressure caused by US sanctions, why are these “well meaning” US citizens iranians not protesting against their US goverment to relief the pressure on their own country and people?
I also have Iranian acquaintances, they’re dumb as shit and haven’t visited the country in their entire lives. They’d rather believe whatever bullshit western media / monarchists tell them to believe because they want to be accepted. Lies upon lies. Have you seen any videos from within Iran? They’re out there, in 2026 you can find videos that aren’t just on the news. I saw videos of terrorists with american weapons shooting into crowds of people, burning down mosques, killing police officers. Is this the fault of Iran? They did the same with every color revolution so far. Fund ideological nazis / wahhabists with billions of dollars in an attempt to overthrow a government. We just saw it with Syria, the playbook is the same.
