I can’t know what it’s like for others, I get that, but reading that the mother of the murdered 19 year old is upset that the execution was halted hits me sideways. A crime that took place 30 years ago by an 18 year old and this mother who is likely in her 60s at least thirsts for the blood of the woman who committed the crime at age 18. And it’s not like they are releasing her, if she is not executed she’ll be imprisoned for the rest of her life (as she doesn’t currently have the possibility of parole). How can this possibly be a positive benefit in her elderly years? That said I am as far removed from this as you can be. Although we have had murder in my family (a minor cousin killing his sister) and I had no desire to see him executed. I know it’s not the same.
American ethos is one of violence and vengeance. It’s built into our laws, our media, our culture.
Honestly, this is a huge part of it.
I once talked to a guy about my car crash involving a drunk driver. I got pretty fucked up and basically lost a year of my life to recovery. I was pissed the dude who impacted my life so much received 2 years and was out in 18 months because he was a “good boy” until that point. I mentioned that all I wanted was more time and impact on his life for doing so much damage to mine. The guy actually said to me “I think he should get a death sentence for what he did to you”. I just sat there like 😐
Even I don’t think the drunk should die for it, and I was the one who was irreparably harmed.
Username checks out
Come on Lemmy why do I have to be the guy to call out American defaultism. Fuckwits all round be better
Comment is about a mom in Tennessee, the US state, wanting her daughter’s killer dead and I offered an explanation, I don’t think it was out of place.
Revenge is not exclusively American, it’s not American ethos. Especially when compared to some places around the world such as the Middle-East and Europe and Asia. Yes those are large swaths of the Earth that in general take blood feuds far more seriously than Americans.
We don’t have a legal system. We have a punishment system.
In places in scandinavia, where they treat prisoners with respect and like humans and focus on rehabilitation rather than straight punishment, they have a very low recidivism rate.
I have to agree with the other commenter regarding vengeance being very big part of American society. I think part of it is likely also the severity of pain her daughter likely suffered during the attack. If this was the result of an accident or potentially a more immediate death for her daughter, I’m not sure the desire would be as strong. In the article she mentions as much, but I truly cannot imagine how it must feel to know that your child was essentially tortured to death. Regardless of how long it lasted, she likely died in pain and in terror. I can imagine that her mother thinks the perpetrator should not be granted a potentially peaceful natural death. I’m not saying it’s right, but I think it’s relevant to note that it wasn’t just a matter of immediate death.
There’s still the flaw in thinking that this is somehow going to make things better or more just. Her daughter will still have been brutally murdered and someone else will now be dead. None of the other material conditions change.
I’m not saying I personally think it’s just, but if your personal sense of justice is “eye for an eye”, which is true for a lot of Americans, then I can see how life in prison feels like more of an injustice. To people with a vengeful sense of justice, every day she lives that her victim does not is itself an injustice.
Unfortunately, words like fairness and justice are not objective static concepts. We as a society often determine their meanings and American justice is definitely more vengeful in nature.
Vengeance only makes sense when I get it. This is very narrow, child-like, self-centered thinking, which is on point for American individualism. There is no thought on how things affect anyone else. People will be wronged, some more than others. If the only way you can conceive of to correct a wrong is to wrong someone else, things like vengeance start to make sense. What no one thinks of is escalation and normalization. Then they have the audacity to act shocked or, even worse, defensive when someone kills someone else, eg., when they were cut off in traffic. After all, why wouldn’t you? No one else matters and you were absolutely inconvenienced.
This woman could deal with her trauma, which is absolutely real, but she would rather hold onto it, make it a part of her, nourish it, and pretend that she will be better off after she has vengeance. Healing is a personal journey, and she has chosen to not take it, no matter what excuse she has used to justify it.
I disagree that people who are vengeful only care when it’s for their personal benefit. I think most people who think vengeance equals justice are happy to see people “get what’s coming to them” in general. I think most people want to personally avoid punishment, so of course if they’re the recipient of vengeance then they will deem it too harsh, but I think that’s a feature of humanity, not necessarily the vengeful mind. In societies where restorative justice is more common I’m sure people would also prefer the lightest sentence possible.
Though I think American individualism has myriad flaws, I don’t think more collectivist societies are inherently immune to vengeful justice. After all, an eye for an eye predates America by millennia, and is often considered an improvement as it set a limit on what could be done, though obviously there were other less vengeful laws that predate that.
This is because they never believe they will be the one that wronged someone until it actually happens, or that they will escape punishment if they do. They are completely unwilling or unable to put themselves in the other person’s shoes. Certainly, that’s harder in this particular case. As for the escalation that inevitably happens with vengeance, which is why justice started with the concept of “an eye for an eye”, this just means it gets worse. We are, or should not be at this point, at the brink of civilization. We have more resources and tools to guarantee that justice is reasonably served and society is safe without having to put people to death. People who see that as a viable or even necessary option need to reevaluate their concept of the value of human life. Lack of doing so or being taught that, which this murderer certainly didn’t get early enough in her life, is the root cause of a lot of these situations, and is not a solution.
How can this possibly be a positive benefit in her elderly years?
I’m not a parent, but I’ve seen something in parents that lose a child (that grew up enough to have a personality and experiences). They are forever injured. Its something they never heal from. The hurt never goes away from the loss. I can only imagine the child being murdered would amplify this.
I am not a parent, which means I’ve never been in a position to lose a child to murder, but your question does come across with, I believe, an unintended arrogance, to tell an elderly parent that it “[isn’t] a positive benefit” to be focusing on the murderer of her child.
So what, mom should just get over the fact that her kid was tortured and beat to death? Easy for you to say.
I don’t think it’s about getting over it. It’s been 30 years. The woman that murdered her child 30 years ago isn’t the same woman anymore. Eye for an eye leaves us all blind. There is no justice at this point executing her.
So you don’t disagree with hte death penalty, just that it took a while? So it, like, expires?
The situation is complicated and should be reapproached. According to otger comments she’s experienced extreme mental strain from being a toddler. She fully acknowledged that she did murder her but didn’t do it with the intent of killing her. I don’t think executing her will benefit society as a whole.
My wife was just explaining that the body of her child is being held for evidence. Theoretically, the case would be closed after the execution and the body could be returned and buried.
I’m no expert on the case, but I could imagine the frustration of waiting for that for 30 years, only to have it yanked away minutes before.
All I’m saying is it might be bloodthirst, but it also may be just general frustration at the long, drawn-out process.
Not the body, the fragment of her skull that she broke off when she killed her.
Also it has been returned.
Slemmer’s mother, May Martinez, confirmed that after sixteen years of fighting and writing letters, she had received the missing skull fragment from the state of Tennessee.
Moving to have this as just life in prison would also accomplish this though. She could have asked for that at any point in this 30 year stretch.
Don’t judge what losing a child in a horrific way feels like. This is the sort of thing you only know with experience. Whatever she feels will give her closure.
Whatever she feels will give her closure.
Spoiler: Having that woman killed wont.
No it won’t.
Pike does not deny committing the killing, but her supporters argue the state should consider Pike’s age at the time, mental illness and a history of severe sexual abuse that included being raped from the time she was a toddler. Assistant Federal Defender Stephen Ferrell said Pike’s death sentence is an outlier because other 18-year-olds in Tennessee have had such sentences vacated.
After the killing, Pike was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder. In her clemency petition she said she only wanted to fight Slemmer but killed her in a frenzied attack when she couldn’t “put the brakes on.”
I read yesterday that her boyfriend got life with the possibility of parole for the same crime. He was 17. I know our justice system isn’t a precision machine and two trials are likely to vary wildly in procedure and outcome. But still… that’s got so sting.
I’m not sure why the court has decided this now rather than at some time during the preceding decades that she spent on death row.
No kidding. This should have been reviewed over the last 30 years or more. Not 1 hour before the fucking execution is set to take place. How was that not cruel and unusual punishment?
There are two reasons. First, people suck. Most would rather not make a decision until they have to. Second, I’m sure there has been pressure to get the death sentence commuted for years, if not decades. Part of that is because the process is slow and part is because political elements often try to make the decision with the most political benefit. The added publicity with this looming deadline would have brought attention and the powers that be have doubtless decided that at this point the political weight is in favor of saying yes rather than no.
