I feel like people are looking at renewables the wrong way. a distributed grid makes sense. the same goes for grid-scale storage. when I looked at it last, it wasn’t too much to get around ~week’s storage for myself. Some solar panels on the roof, some storage tucked into a utlity closet, in every house, you have a distributed grid.
Supplement it with other renewables like wind, tidal and hydro; maybe pay people to store stuff, too, like they do with power going into the grid.
when I looked at it last, it wasn’t too much to get around ~week’s storage for myself. Some solar panels on the roof, some storage tucked into a utlity closet, in every house, you have a distributed grid.
In the USA you’re looking at a price tag probably close to $150k+ for one family’s worth for total grid independence unless you’re willing to restrict which geography you live in or make pretty drastic lifestyle reductions. That week’s worth of storage batteries is going to set you back a lot.
You must be talking about more than just energy. Solar panels and a $10k battery don’t cost that much.
I promise you, that isn’t an exaggeration in the USA. I recently had 17KW of solar panels installed and 10KWh of battery in my home.
10KWh fully charge will power a my home’s regular power consumption for less than a day, and that isn’t even charging any EVs. OP was speccing out one week’s worth of batteries and in many parts of the USA (and the world for that matter) you don’t get enough sun all day to even charge your batteries and power your household consumption. Hence my comment on reducing lifestyle consumption, or restricting your living to geographies that get more sun. I can talk full detailed numbers about my first hand experience if your interested.
Huh. Last I looked I was figuring around 15-17KW would be enough to fully power both my home and an EV. (You can actually look at your usage history from your electric provider to get past usage.)
I don’t know what “one week of batteries” means. If he means to power his house for an entire week with no solar production, that’s insane and probably is $150k. But you don’t need that much to be 98% independent.
Huh. Last I looked I was figuring around 15-17KW would be enough to fully power both my home and an EV.
And that 15-17KW of installed solar panels will cost you between $35k-$60k in cash (not a loan) without batteries (and before any state and federal incentives which have specific requirements). Most people don’t have that kind of money to part with for this application.
The devil is in the details. Assuming full sun it should be about right. However, even overcast days can cut your production down to 20% of normal, thats even forgetting storming days, and then there’s winter where you’ve got snow covering your panels for possibly days on end.
Further it gets into what your state and power provider has for “net metering”. Your panels produce well when its fairly cloudless and sunny. So that covers about 10 hours of the day (for part of the year, with the part being different depending on which hemisphere you’re in on the globe.) The best case scenario with production and the most generous net metering rules is that you generate an excess during the summer sunny days, and that carries you through pulling from the grid for your solar production shortfalls later in the cloudy fall and winter. However, most net metering schemes mean you only get a fraction of the power back later in the year that you give to the power company.
I don’t know what “one week of batteries” means. If he means to power his house for an entire week with no solar production,
I think thats what that poster meant.
that’s insane and probably is $150k. But you don’t need that much to be 98% independent.
I don’t disagree, but that was their definition, not mine.
Putting solar panels and a battery in every house is ok if everyone owns an actual house, has enough space for a battery and gets enough sunlight but it wouldn’t be possible in most cities where hundreds of people share a single roof that doesn’t have the space for all the panels required.
In some countries the houses wouldn’t be big enough to install batteries without taking up valuable living space, most terraced houses in the uk couldn’t fit a power bank inside without filling an entire room’s usable space.
You also have to deal with the fact that many grids aren’t built to deal with the power fluctuation that comes from each house providing power, my university has a solar and wind farm that has to be shut down sometimes because the nearby city can’t handle all the power it produces in the summer and that’s from a centralised source.
Powergrids need to be upgraded anyway, simply because of EVs and heat pumps. All the energy that was formerly distributed via gas stations and pipes now has to be pushed through the grid.
Apart from that, local storage is actually pretty great for handling fluctuations, since it’s essentially a smoothing capacitor.
Cities are a problem, but that’s what large scale production like wind is for. Obviously, large storage facilities are also needed, but hydro power, hydrogen and a few local batteries could easily supplement the grid.
All true, but if you slap panels on every rooftop you can- every square foot of rooftop panel is one less square foot of dedicated land needed for solar farms.
Most current homes could easily accommodate something (including a storage shack tucked against the house.)
The grid is an issue that’s going to have to get fixed anyway; we’re going away from mega-plants that produce power for entire states no matter anyhow.
Also we need to be distributed for climate resilience.
The time for repositioning our renewables stance and grid was the 70s-00s. Now, it’s renewables at any cost, since a considerable portion of the country didn’t feel like climate change was a big deal until it was upon us.
Priority #1 is now reducing our carbon output by any means necessary, and we are still gonna get hit decently by climate change even if we meet our commitments (assuming 100% democratic wins/no undoing of policy through 2050)
I feel like people are looking at renewables the wrong way. a distributed grid makes sense. the same goes for grid-scale storage. when I looked at it last, it wasn’t too much to get around ~week’s storage for myself. Some solar panels on the roof, some storage tucked into a utlity closet, in every house, you have a distributed grid.
Supplement it with other renewables like wind, tidal and hydro; maybe pay people to store stuff, too, like they do with power going into the grid.
But yea, Nuclear is a reliable grid scale system.
In the USA you’re looking at a price tag probably close to $150k+ for one family’s worth for total grid independence unless you’re willing to restrict which geography you live in or make pretty drastic lifestyle reductions. That week’s worth of storage batteries is going to set you back a lot.
You must be talking about more than just energy. Solar panels and a $10k battery don’t cost that much.
I promise you, that isn’t an exaggeration in the USA. I recently had 17KW of solar panels installed and 10KWh of battery in my home.
10KWh fully charge will power a my home’s regular power consumption for less than a day, and that isn’t even charging any EVs. OP was speccing out one week’s worth of batteries and in many parts of the USA (and the world for that matter) you don’t get enough sun all day to even charge your batteries and power your household consumption. Hence my comment on reducing lifestyle consumption, or restricting your living to geographies that get more sun. I can talk full detailed numbers about my first hand experience if your interested.
Huh. Last I looked I was figuring around 15-17KW would be enough to fully power both my home and an EV. (You can actually look at your usage history from your electric provider to get past usage.)
I don’t know what “one week of batteries” means. If he means to power his house for an entire week with no solar production, that’s insane and probably is $150k. But you don’t need that much to be 98% independent.
And that 15-17KW of installed solar panels will cost you between $35k-$60k in cash (not a loan) without batteries (and before any state and federal incentives which have specific requirements). Most people don’t have that kind of money to part with for this application.
The devil is in the details. Assuming full sun it should be about right. However, even overcast days can cut your production down to 20% of normal, thats even forgetting storming days, and then there’s winter where you’ve got snow covering your panels for possibly days on end.
Further it gets into what your state and power provider has for “net metering”. Your panels produce well when its fairly cloudless and sunny. So that covers about 10 hours of the day (for part of the year, with the part being different depending on which hemisphere you’re in on the globe.) The best case scenario with production and the most generous net metering rules is that you generate an excess during the summer sunny days, and that carries you through pulling from the grid for your solar production shortfalls later in the cloudy fall and winter. However, most net metering schemes mean you only get a fraction of the power back later in the year that you give to the power company.
I think thats what that poster meant.
I don’t disagree, but that was their definition, not mine.
Putting solar panels and a battery in every house is ok if everyone owns an actual house, has enough space for a battery and gets enough sunlight but it wouldn’t be possible in most cities where hundreds of people share a single roof that doesn’t have the space for all the panels required.
In some countries the houses wouldn’t be big enough to install batteries without taking up valuable living space, most terraced houses in the uk couldn’t fit a power bank inside without filling an entire room’s usable space.
You also have to deal with the fact that many grids aren’t built to deal with the power fluctuation that comes from each house providing power, my university has a solar and wind farm that has to be shut down sometimes because the nearby city can’t handle all the power it produces in the summer and that’s from a centralised source.
Powergrids need to be upgraded anyway, simply because of EVs and heat pumps. All the energy that was formerly distributed via gas stations and pipes now has to be pushed through the grid.
Apart from that, local storage is actually pretty great for handling fluctuations, since it’s essentially a smoothing capacitor.
Cities are a problem, but that’s what large scale production like wind is for. Obviously, large storage facilities are also needed, but hydro power, hydrogen and a few local batteries could easily supplement the grid.
All true, but if you slap panels on every rooftop you can- every square foot of rooftop panel is one less square foot of dedicated land needed for solar farms.
Most current homes could easily accommodate something (including a storage shack tucked against the house.)
The grid is an issue that’s going to have to get fixed anyway; we’re going away from mega-plants that produce power for entire states no matter anyhow.
Also we need to be distributed for climate resilience.
Well that is just silly instead of turning it off they should just mine some crypto.
The time for repositioning our renewables stance and grid was the 70s-00s. Now, it’s renewables at any cost, since a considerable portion of the country didn’t feel like climate change was a big deal until it was upon us.
Priority #1 is now reducing our carbon output by any means necessary, and we are still gonna get hit decently by climate change even if we meet our commitments (assuming 100% democratic wins/no undoing of policy through 2050)
Oh hey it’s my favorite big energy talking point, “it’s too late to decentralize the grid and rob us of our monopoly!”
We can do both, both is the fastest option. Both is the best way to deal with the inevitable effects of climate change.
I don’t care if there’s a nice shiny nuclear plant a state over if the lines have been shredded by massive storms.