So if you miss a payment your mouse shuts off?
How is your standing policed, with an always online requirement? So if I move and need to wait to get my internet up, I can’t use my mouse?
Are they legally liable for lifetime support or are you signing away that right in the EULA and they can end support for your “lifetime” mouse on a whim?
I’d rather rent my furniture than subscribe to a mouse, but both practices are exploiting this world’s rampant financial illiteracy.
They could probably do that in windows by adding some service that checks if the mouse is valid… Since on windows it’s using Logitech drivers.
On Linux it’s open source so no way they can do anything.
Nah, you just have the mouse do a cryptographic handshake with the driver software and tie it to a server-side validation check, and thus if there’s no handshake and validation, there’s no working mouse.
Easy!
(Please don’t read this Logitech.)
Now we need internet to use a mouse. Brilliant. :)
All we need to do now is somehow make it have an AI assistant and maybe put it on the blockchain somehow and wait what the fuck? They do?! https://www.logitech.com/en-us/software/logi-ai-prompt-builder.html
They are desperately looking how to actually use their AI investments… Companies are spending billions and they have no idea what to actually build that will be useful.
Probably end up using AI for ads. Fuck.
I can’t wait for some shitty computerized voice to start telling me that, as a large language model, they highly recommend that I consider Taco Bell for dinner, because Taco Bell contains all the food-like products your body needs.
How is no one pointing out that a mouse subscription would make it so that if you missed a payment then (the majority of) people literally wouldn’t be able to re subscribe since, you know, most people use a mouse to do things on the internet.
Are they legally liable for lifetime support or are you signing away that right in the EULA and they can end support for your “lifetime” mouse on a whim?
What do you think? After they’ve sold all of them they’ll release Lifetime Mouse 2.0, and cancel all the support for these, bricking your mouse.
HP ink enters the chat
The concept mouse that Faber examined was “a little heavier” than the typical mouse. But what drives its longevity potential for Logitech is the idea of constantly updated software and services.
What software or service updates does a mouse even need?
Like, the crazier mice have software, but it doesn’t really need updated. It’s just for fine tuning DPI and turning off the flashy lights.
I mainly wonder how they are going to solve a broken microswitch with a software update…
When you pay them as long as you use the mouse, they have a business reason to keep it working as long as possible (so to use batter switches) and sending you a new one when one breaks can still be profitable for them. Software updates are less important here.
I guess for end users it will still be cheaper and more convenient to buy a new regular mouse with a one-time payment after the previous one breaks. And that is how electro-trash piles up…
There is a lesson in there about how we get stupid outcomes from “capitalism”
It’s just for … turning off the flashy lights.
This right here. But the software is garbage and I’d prefer they didn’t include the disco lights at all. Maybe that’s a way to improve profits?
Yep, fun fact: The basic mouse functionality is built into Windows, Linux, presumably macOS, and I believe even Android. Mouses all do similar enough of a thing and have been doing so for long enough, that we just ship a driver in OSs to take care of the core functionality.
The only real software “innovation” happens in offering profiles, LED patterns and whatnot.
Button mapping is also in software for programmable buttons. Otherwise even my G52 Hero doesn’t actually need the software. The beauty and whole point of USB peripherals is plug-n-play so there’s absolutely no point to a subscription service… well, nothing short of a dystopian future where the “lifetime” mouse is “lifetime” because the switches are so terrible they only last a month before needing to send it in for replacements, justified by each switch having a programmable micro-processor that needs to be flashed with proprietary software at replacement, effectively over-powering right-to-repair in the same swoop. At that point, it’s not worth using a computer. I’d learn to carve on stone tablets before accepting that BS.
There’s no big reason why remapping couldn’t be done in a way that doesn’t require actively running software on the host machine. QMK, the open source firmware for keyboards has had this for years. You can update your keymap with an online editor, but once it’s flashed, your mappings will be remembered regardless of which computer/phone/whatever you use the keyboard with - without having to run any software besides the OS on the host.
Very accurate and I don’t disagree. I want to be clear my comment was only as a partial correction for the last sentence of the original comment and am in no way advocating for programmable buttons to stay this way. The argument is the status quo is simplicity (you know, except for all of the times the software is so bad that it basically doesn’t work either because of bad UI or terrible programming) despite the fact the true reasoning is likely creating false brand loyalty and likely some means of selling user data. Personally, I’d like to see the availability of choice between proprietary and FOSS, even if it’s only to force the big wigs to develop better software since the bar is currently on the ground on a good day.
I have a microsoft trackball, black body red ball thumb driven, was $35 us/$99 cdn and I bought the first of 2 in 2000 it has not been supported for a long time. I saved the drivers to a usb and am still using the combined trackball today. The 1st tracball had 1 board die in it, bought the second the other board died in that one so I combined the 2 working boards and it still goes strong.
Dumbest shit I’ve heard this week.
Switches that last forever would be interesting. Subscription models and sw updates for a mouse are the very opposite of interesting. I’d pay not to have either.
There are industrial switches that last practically forever. I’ve made some test robots for wearing out limit switches and the decent ones could be hammered constantly for days on end without a single miss.
Another component that doesn’t wear out is a photo gate. It doesn’t click or spring, though.
Actually just a decent keyboard switch would probably put up with a lot.
But it’s cheaper to go cheap and you get more repeat business.
My $50 mouse has switches rated for 20 million clicks. Had it for 5 years and it still works flawlessly, but if they do ever wear out I can replace them.
What’s the point of a mouse that lasts forever if your purchase doesn’t?
You could almost call it… a mouse trap
(I’ll show myself out…)Quarterly profits, of course.
I have a (mostly) forever mouse already. It has high quality Omron switches rated for millions of clicks, an Aliexpress page bookmarked as well as a soldering iron for when they need replacing. Anything that is “forever” only needs good quality components and the ability to repair whatever may go wrong. Any company that claims to sell something that either will not break or wear out is one to avoid. A good example I can think of is BMW who no longer put drain plugs on their transmissions for fluid replacement, their reasoning: “The fluid is for lifetime usage.” while the small print states the “lifetime” is roughly 120k miles. Similar story with their “lifetime” timing chains too, except those weren’t even lasting the small print mileage. Didn’t stop them trying to sell customers the whole replacement engine too.
Source: God, don’t make me replace another BMW transmission. I’m tired.
What mouse if you don’t mind sharing?
My Logitech G602 technically has high quality Omron switches but only on left/right click, the middle click and the rest use crappy little tactile switches that last about 6 months before I need to replace them.
I’ve got a G502 Hero. I’d heard lots of complaints about the line after buying it but I haven’t had any issues despite having it for a good few years now. I also had a M305 for something like a decade. A very simple little thing but lasted a long time. I replaced the switches for higher grade switches than factory and only replaced it because the rocker mounting for the mouse wheel tilt snapped, which I’m pretty certain was caused by a house move than any lack of quality.
You can get rugged or smooth.
Lots of expensive brands prioritize smooth because their buyers will buy often and not care about resale or cost of new.
A Toyota Hilux and a Range Rover aren’t really made with the same priorities, even though both could go offroading.
Someone that buys a brand new off the lot beamer likely isn’t planning to still own it 120,000 miles later. Probably not even three years later.
Doesn’t mean we should open a revolving door to the scrap heap. Also this perception of pick one is extremely false. It’s more than possible to have a perfectly smooth transmission than can be maintained. Fill and drain plugs don’t effect any of the internals so it’s little more than self-sabotage (see: planned obsolence) to make it impossible to perform basic maintenance. Besides, no trans is going to remain smooth if the fluid isn’t replaced frequently.
If we were only talking about a transmission sure
I don’t how anyone would think that’s what I meant. But here you are.
I think the problem might stem from the fact you specifically responded to my example of a transmission. You see, the subtle nuance of an example like I made is that it’s still transferable.
What you may have missed in my spiel about an industry leader going out of their way to enshittify their products, effectively creating scrap-ready vehicles, no matter the price tag category, is maintenance is a crucial requirement in helping the longevity of a product, thus meaning less products going to the scrap heap (or landfill, if we’re honest). I’m using cars as an example because it happens to be one of my areas of expertise that happens to be an every-day item for a large quantity of people. However, the example is just as applicable to inkjet printers that clog up, rendering them useless, mobile phones that have limited lifespans thanks to non-replaceable batteries (as well as plenty other components), laptops with similar problems, and pretty much every form of manufactured e-waste you could ever think of. There’s no good reason any product shouldn’t be repairable or have some means of making it last as long as physically possible before it simply doesn’t make sense to do so anymore and it just so happens the automotive market serves as a terrific example of a multitude of little ways manufacturers have been slowly cutting away at reparability to the point that even a trained mechanic can’t repair something without some insanely expensive equipment or still needing to resort to needing to take the vehicle to a dealer to have a certain component flashed to the car before it can be used. So no, we’re not only talking about a transmission but you have fun with that thought while the rest of us have a real conversation that uses anecdotes and stand-ins to discuss a terrifyingly huge problem this world is facing.
I guess I’m not surprised enshittification of physical objects is becoming more of a trend than an oddity, but it’s still happening sooner than I expected. :/
Have you used a TV in the past 10 years?
Not one that required a subscription to operate, but I’ve heard those are out there too.
Logitech has been on the decline for a while LGS was awesome replaced with the far inferior GHub. Now they’re doing it with the physical hardware? Fuck y’all
GHub is a terrible piece of software, ugh.
I know, it’s even worse when ya compare it to their previous software. They didn’t just take a step backwards, I swear they went, how can we make the same software but make it worse in EVERY conceivable way. Then they did just that
I have a Logitech mouse and keyboard. I don’t use their software even though it’s free. Other than the shitty switches, it’s a good mouse. Actually, the wireless connection isn’t great compared to the G7 (I thought I was getting frame stutters at first until I realized it went away if I plugged my mouse in). And the battery not being easily removable is dangerous, as mine was swelling when I opened it up to replace one of those shitty switches a few weeks ago.
But if they do try it, they’ll probably be quickly dethroned since mice and keyboards aren’t exactly difficult to make and even today the wear and tear is because they wanted to save a buck or two on switches (or were tricked into thinking crappy switches were good ones).
A good mouse already lasts practically forever. I have been using the same MS Trackball Optical since 2002, original switches, new bearings after 15 years. As long as it directly translates XY motion and clicks in real space to XY motion and clicks in screen space the device is feature complete, no more value can be added via subscription service.
Don’t do it, Logitech. Don’t go full HP.
They already have with their planned obsolescence. At least HP printers tend to work if you give them
blood of your first bornink.My biggest problem with HP printers was their wifi components. It got to the point I was having to manually reconnect the unit to my wifi with every use until I was ready to throw it out my window. I never got the catharsis of that but I did get an Epson Ecotank with an ethernet port. Not had a problem since.
Both my mouse and keyboard are logitech and I love them, despite how terrible their software is in both stability and usability. The only reason I put up with the terrible software is because I only had to interact with it the one time to set up my color scheme and mouse dpi. Just trying to get the software to install to do that was terrible and that’s what they want people to subscribe for, sounds dead on arrival to me.
If you want to get rid of their software, for the RGB part you can use OpenRGB instead. It runs on both Linux and Windows and can do pretty much any RGB controller (RAM, GPU, mainboard, mouse, keyboard, …).
For changing DPI I use Piper but I don’t think that one is available on Windows.
They both sound pretty good options. I looked real quick but didn’t see an answer but do either of them allow you to save to the onboard memory of Logitech devices or does it only work with them running in the background?
Yes, they both save to the device on my mouse.
Logitech already builds mice that will last a lifetime. This is just them deciding that they should get paid every month for that.
Fuck off, Logitech
Great, Logitech wants to release Mouse as a Service (MaaS) now we also need Keyboard as a Service (KaaS), right? /s
So what they mean is we have received expensive garbage that had a short shelf life from the very beginning and they would now rather make a “quality” product and milk us dry for owning it? Sure sounds like a good idea for shareholders.
If i could choose one job it would be to fuck CEOs and shareholders with rusty razor blades.
OK, so, you’re right. Let’s be fair, though: this is capitalism. There are companies that make quality mice, and they are more expensive and don’t compete at the same scale Logitech does. If Logitech made quality mice, they’d be more expensive, and even more consumers would look at and choose cheaper mice from their competitors.
Part of this is absolutely “margins & profit.” Part is the veiled curse of online shopping: when you can’t feel and handle the product, much more of shopper decision comes down to simply price: this is the T-Shirt Effect: if two online products look identical, but one is less expensive, most people are going to opt for the less expensive one. It’s put established companies known for quality out of business, or driven their product quality down to compete. Part of it is that there are few reliable, authoritative review sources; many are barely disguised paid ads, or star-manipulation. The end sum is consumers voting with their dollars, and companies responding accordingly. Sales are down, your competitors’ are up, people are choosing products you know are cheaper crap, and so it’s obvious people prefer cheaper crap, so you make it.
It’s a lose-lose for everyone except those companies able to quickly clone reputable products, but with lower-quality components, and flood the online market with them.
Low-quality, low-cost mass manufacturing has put products in the hands of people who wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford them. But it’s also driven down quality, and driven waste up; the same decision process being used by low-income folks is also used by middle-class, and with nearly all shopping being online, consumers have few options for a better process.
The equation changes when you get to the wealthy, who can shop with companies who aren’t competing on volume, but reputation and margins: the Bang & Olufsens; the Breguets, and the Urban Jurgensens. People who can afford to shop with artisans shop differently, but all t-shirts look the same online.
I have no problem with buying more expensive, high quality stuff. The problem is that the higher price often simply means meaningless features instead of good durability. The mouse i am using right now cost me 150€ and i hoped it was more durable but the right click is already not working properly. Garbage.
If i could trust companies to actually put out stuff that lasts a life time i would love to have it. This however simply sounds like another move to increase the companies value for its shareholders.
Clothing is a whole other matter and again as consumer it is really hard to know whether your money goes to quality or simply marketing and “good feeling”.
When everything you buy as a consumer tends to break fast they will have no real choice but to go for cheap crap.
I haven’t see any logi mouse which woudn’t break after a year, quality is gone for 5+ years now for that brand. I’m more than happy with a noname Hama brand mouse costs half, lifetime 10x :D
I’ve had a couple of g pros that each lasted about 3 years.
Sure as hell wouldn’t pay a monthly subscription for them, though.
I’ve probably used a few for closer to a decade. Especially the three button ones in the 90’s (in Sgi granite) were nice.
Actually there’s an optical wheel mouse of some sort right here on my desk that I think I got used with a computer in maybe 2012. Model stickers have fallen off, the plastic is worn down and even the metal plate at the top looks as if it had been sanded down. It says Logitech, though.
But those naturally aren’t current models.
We should shove it up the CEOs ass and make him pay us!
That would be a different market, where the CEO benefits.
