I’m the person in the bottom right of this comic.
I absolutely hate it but I don’t have a choice which is why I find the cheapest car that I can pay for in cash. I have some cash saved up and found a new car for the equivalent of $15300 which is 25% of my income, but wish I didn’t have to buy it.
Rent: am I a joke to you?
I live inna shit hole and renting saps people likely 50% of the median income
Absolutely. A $5k 1998 Toyota Corolla will be bulletproof for another twenty years yet. Fuel and oil every now and then is all it will ask for, and as long as you don’t need to compensate for your lack of manhood, there’s no reason that won’t take you anywhere you need to go. I don’t understand why Americans feels the need to take a loan out on a six figure “truck”. Sure as shit it’s not to “haul” the milk and cookies home from the grocery store.
However, you do have to compensate for the lack of a roof over your head, and that will take a lot more of your income on a monthly basis.
$5000 for a 27 year old car is a lot of money though. Though being a Toyota you are probably not losing much if you ever need to sell it.
More like “I hate my job, but social safety nets are nonexistent and I need to eat food. On top of that I’m forced to spend my precious income on a machine that requires fossil fuels which are destroying the environment” but yes
Yeah but that doesn’t let you blame the people for having a car
Public transportation is non existent in a lot of the US and the cost of taking a cab is higher than a car payment. We have sprawling cities where if you don’t want to work a commute that would be 3+ hours each way you are precluded from most jobs and you better have 3-6 months of money saved to job search in your area at that point.
Millions of people are stuck in places where if you don’t have a car you’re going not going to finding much work or working a living wage.
Yes, I am aware and am in full agreement. I was referring to the more circlejerky aspect of this community sometimes where they ignore/cannot comprehend that so they act like anyone who has a car for any reason is evil and the problem and bad.
And I’m only exaggerating a tiny bit.
Are you under the impression that “carbrain” means “anyone who owns a car”?
Don’t forget that if you do want to move closer to your job so you can walk you need a ton of money to find a rental or buy something.
I realized recently that the reason Americans are so poor is because they need cars. Every other nation has at least adequate public transportation. Think about how much richer Americans would be if they didn’t have to constantly maintain a car. That maintenance easily takes out $1000 a month with fuel, loan, tax and insurance. And most places in the US your going to need 2 cars for the family. $2000, that’s a months worth of food for a family of four. Yeah, not great.
And the one city in America that you don’t need cars, NYC, a drink costs $30.
That maintenance easily takes out $1000 a month with fuel, loan, tax and insurance.
For new cars, sure. Used cars are a lot less than that, but even a couple hundred a month is significant for someone on minimum wage, and even worse when it is the month that something breaks…
As someone who put $2500 and dozens of hours and sweat and blood into a used car in the last three months: They’re not always cheaper.
On average they are. Insurance is cheaper, and that adds up. Registration is cheaper, and that adds up. If one is able to do their own repairs, parts are generally a lot cheaper.
There are periods of time when costs spike, and that is horrible when on a lot income (yes, I know personally), but occasionally costing far more than expected is different than costs less. Hell, a newer car can have thousands in repairs for stuff shortly after the warranty ends, or be for something the warranty doesn’t cover.
Yeah, I saved about $1800 replacing a turbo myself including having to buy a bunch of tools. Even if I broke the turbo I put in I can still buy another one and have saved money
Or if they have a single health issue they need medication for.
That’s the main problem, you either spend a lot up front or a lot in random, unpredictable intervals.
I’m really fortunate to be able to rely on public transit despite living in LA, because I can’t imagine paying for everything associated with a car on top of rent.
So when I said $1000 a month I’m including that your going to have to repair. You can’t really escape it unless you really understand cars. Sure the used car is cheaper up front, but those hidden repair costs can add up right quick if you don’t know how to deal with a lot of them on your own. And that time to understand cars is also taking away from your self development. So even with cheap used cars, my estimate of $1000 a month is pretty spot on.
Edit. I forgot to add all the opportunity costs from travel instead of studying on a train. $1000 is really probably low balling even with a cheap used car.
Look, I’m not saying that a train and other mass transit are not far superior. I am saying $1,000 a month is the average total cost of ownership for a new car including taxes, titles, insurance, etc. There isn’t a need to inflated the costs when a few hundred dollars is already many times the cost of mass transit per month.
It’s not about inflating the costs. It’s the reality of car ownership. Any financially literate person understands the concept of opportunity cost. Even if you go with cheap cars, you’re now in the world of opportunity costs eating away at you. As long as you own a car, there’s no escape. And the horrifying reality is, it’s so absurdly high that when you just put it out there and calculate what it’s costing your family regardless of new or used, it really highlights how screwed Americans are.
Edit: In fact I would argue that cheap used cars are worse than new cars exactly because of opportunity cost. Those who would buy a cheap used cars are the least able to afford the opportunity costs, but since they have to save on the upfront costs, the opportunity costs are inevitable. Whether that be lost wages because your car broke down, or having to pay too much to a mechanic because you didn’t learn how to work with cars or even working on cars taking away time from after work college degrees. Just estimating it at the new car cost really undersells just how much damage it’s doing.
And the one city in America that you don’t need cars, NYC, a drink costs $30.
The cheapest beers at my local bar are like $4. A basic cocktail is like $8. I know you were doing a hyperbole but not everywhere is Times Square :(
Shit’s still too expensive generally everywhere, but I feel like here I’m getting something for my money (eg: a subway system, sidewalks, free musuems, etc)
I am being hyperbolic, but $8? That’s crazy cheap. That’s like prices in the areas I do live. I don’t live in NYC but I visit all the time. I think the cheapest I found was $18. Now, don’t give your location away, but which section of NYC can be that low? I’d like to visit sometime!
Go to Rudy’s for a porkslap, a shot, and a hot dog in the meatpacking district, five bucks.
There’s a million places to go. You can find cheap, you just might not like it. I’ve had some of my most fun times at shithole bars in the city. Many nights ended at the croc lounge, may she rest in peace, a free bar pie with every beer you order.
Is a porkslap being slapped with pork or am I going to be disappointed?
Brooklyn, but not an expensive or “cool” part. Great train access, very walkable, plenty of bars and restaurants, but it’s not someplace a tourist would likely come to first.
My current favorite bar seems like a neighborhood bar where there’s regulars and the bartenders know people. Very different than like something in midtown manhattan, where it’s pricey and there’s an endless sea of people coming and going every night.
Ah I do like Brooklyn, but you’re right I’ve only gone to touristy areas like fire island. I guess there’s a tone of places I don’t really go to. And obviously I’m in Manhattan a lot, though I too avoid Time Sq like the plague. It’s good to know, I’m going to see if I can find smaller areas in Brooklyn to hang out. Thanks!
Imagine being forced to spend 20% of your income on a depreciating asset
FuckJapaneseHomes apparently also needs to be a community.
Eat to work/work to eat
Eat just to shit. Shit just to eat. What is this life
I‘m sure there is a „Metric“ song about this…
Found it. Handshakes by Metric:
Buy this car to drive to work Drive to work to pay for this car Bah bah bah-da la
Say you wanna get in And you’re gonna get out But you won’t 'Cause it’s a trap
Also the Over the Hedge version of Rockin’ the Suburbs by Ben Folds Five:
We drive our cars every day
To and from work both ways
So we make just enough to pay
To drive our cars to work each day
Hey hey
Metric made a song (partially) about this catch 22.
At least he’s carpooling
It is freedom. Freedom to go where you went, when you want. Freedom to explore, freedom to experience things you couldn’t otherwise.
I buy all of my cars outright, but have never been forced. Owning cars, driving cars, working on cars, and selling cars are all joys to be had.
If you don’t like driving, then don’t. Take a bus, a train, or bike. But just because you cannot afford it, or because driving is scary for you, don’t presume that the majority is going to agree.
Have you tried taking public transport yourself to commute to work? In most cities in the US, it’s unreliable, inefficient, or straight up not even there. For many commuters, driving is the only option.
It’s freedom to go where you want so long as you
- register with the government
- insure it
- get a license
- maintain it (likely by paying someone else to do it, since it’s a complicated skill set )
- figure out fuel and oil sources
- probably other stuff I’m forgetting
persoally, I think being able to walk or bike somewhere is more free. Public transit that’s just always there, running every couple minutes, is also good.
As to “take a bus”, part of the problem, and part of why communities like “fuck cars” gain traction, is that most places are car-first, and thus taking a bus isn’t a viable option. These modes of transit aren’t equal. Where my parents live in the suburbs it would be a long dangerous walk to a bus stop, and then the buses don’t run often, or go many places.
People aren’t mad at cars out of spite. They’re mad because car-first culture is bad ecologically, socially, and economically.
If you don’t like driving, then don’t. Take a bus, a train, or bike
That’s exactly the problem: I can’t, my city has shitty bus routes with 1 hour frequency, trains are non existent, bike infrastructure only on dreams. That’s the freedom we want, but with car centric infrastructure, we don’t have the freedom to choose how to move and function on this society
I’m lucky to live walking distance to work. 99.995% of my city doesn’t have that option and must rely on a car. My city spends almost nothing in public transit but spends a lot on roads and other car subsidies.
I’d love to walk, bike, or take the bus, but there are no busses where I live, sparse sidewalks, and no bike lanes. You do the math.
I buy all of my cars outright, but have never been forced. Owning cars, driving cars, working on cars, and selling cars are all joys to be had.
You’re a person after my own heart. Cars deserve better than to be used for commuting.
The more people we can get to not use cars for things the better cars will be. They wouldn’t design ugly drab eggs in three colors if cars weren’t treated like appliances.
I think the opposite is true. If cars weren’t treated like they are a necessary part of the personality and instead just like a thing, the owners may stop valueing them less than other people’s lives. Like ‘I am in a hurry, I will just overtake that cyclist in front of me with an inch if distance, because I am so much more important.’
Plenty of people who don’t actually like cars do that not because the car is part of their personality but because they see the cyclist as “in their way.”
If someone truly loved their car they wouldn’t want a cyclist putting scratches all over it.
Who’s forcing you?
Were you held at gunpoint to buy a car?
Nope, just can’t live close enough to my job to walk, there’s no public transit, and the job requires you have transport ready to go upon being hired.
Not all coercion is at the end of a barrel, bruv
“Is your husband held you at gunpoint before forcing himself on you? No? Then it’s not marital rape. Case close”
