Autistic guy here and sorry for the political rant. There is a lot of intense and horrific things happening all over the world like the recent war with Iran. But let me say this. If you voted for Trump and your friends and family cut you off because of it, then I do not feel any sympathy for you.
Especially if you have a loved one who is neurodivergent or is special needs. The amount of grief and hopelessness this administration is bringing to thousands, if not millions, of families in the USA is indefensible. Families have been torn apart because of his draconian policies towards immigration. Legal immigrants and regular tourists are being jailed because they committed a minor infraction. Education and social safety programs are being gutted, while the ultra-wealthy keep getting richer and richer.
Canada, Australia and Europe, which we have seen as friends for the previous couple decades, are moving away from the USA after Trump’s annexation threats of Canada and withdrawing from several agreements. And I don’t fault them for boycotting the USA as there are other friendlier countries to travel to and buy products from. Compared to Europe or Asia, the only good things we have going for us here are the universities and the national parks. Yet Trump and most of his cabinet want to dismantle the national park system and remove all federal funding from these universities. I’m not sad that Canadians and Europeans (and Australians) are boycotting the USA, and at this point, I would happily boycott the USA as well if I didn’t live here. I’m sad because I really enjoy talking to international people. Plus many of these cultural ties between certain states and certain provinces (like BC and the NW USA, or Quebec and the Maritimes with New England) have been severely damaged and will be very difficult to repair. What makes traveling fun for me is having fun conversations with international people from all over the world.
All of this to make the USA safer?! Really?!
Now that Roe v. Wade has ben overturned and many states are implementing harsh laws preventing women from getting abortions, the USA will very likely its own Mahsa Amini. And when that happens and another wave of nationwide protests happen, Laken Riley will really be turning in her grave when she finds out her death was used for far-right authoritarian policies to dismantle healthcare for millions of women.
Safer from school shootings and gun violence since Republicans want to ease all gun restrictions? Safer from diseases since there is an anti-vax skeptic who is the secretary of the US health and human services and wants to remove all vaccine requirements? Out of fear that vaccines cause Autism which has been debunked countless times by countless scientists? Safer from pollution now that several environmental regulations have been eased? Safer for plane travel now that majority of the FAA has been fired? Safer traveling out of the country because American citizens (who even have Global Entry) are being put into waiting rooms for hours.
You voted for him to lower the cost of groceries and gas prices?! How is $2.80 per gallon of gas expensive, unless you casually drive a large pickup truck? Due to the tariffs and now the war in Iran, gas and gadgets are going to become A LOT more expensive. People in Oklahoma are going to be in for a very nasty shock when they are suddenly paying Massachusetts prices for utilities and food in a matter of time, unless the entire world can forgive the USA at this point.
If you voted for Trump in 2016, I would still think you have a good heart, even if our political opinions are different. If you voted for Trump in 2024 after Trump proved to the entire world that he has no respect for his political opponents, the constitution and law by putting members of the entire US cabinet in danger on 6 Jan 21, then I don’t think you have a good heart and you deserve to be ostracized.
This is why I have such a heard time sympathizing with those who lost friends and family connections because they would rather die of heart failure or cancer than have a well-qualified woman be president, and instead sympathize with those that did cut off friends and family if they voted for Orange Man. I hope everyone who voted for Orange Man will financially suffer. Because we don’t have a difference in political opinions. We have a difference in morality and ethics.
Yep, it’s a classic Leopards Ate My Face. They got exactly what they voted for.
A couple I knew in college, basically they’d been together since childhood, moved to rural Minnesota, because conservative. They were militantly anti-mask and anti-.odern medicine. They refused the COVID vaccine and the whole family got sick several times. The husband finally died, on a respirator. His wife blames Biden. Sad.
Right now they are coping or doing mental gymnastics
I feel similarly about people who voted Labour in the last UK election.
This is just great thinking
think about it. the Reps can use this endlessly to justify their apparent lack of empathy towards democrats
So under this framework, all the actions they are taking currently are fully justified, not only by themselves, but by the perceived “enemy”
Basically you have pigeonholed yourself into a pickle placed between 2 boulders called “a rock” and “a hard place”, as you now cannot complain about anything they do as, well, that’s the framework you are spouting about
So all is good with the world when you get shown no empathy
After all, in your heart of hearts, you voted for this 😉
Collaboration with psychopaths just moves the needle to their side.
See! It’s marvelous! Circular reasoning all the way down!
Then we pluck each other eyes, and teeth for good measure!
As I said, it is just great thinking 😉
I’m not sure I see refusal to collaborate with horrible people as the same as being horrible people.
Or do you think disagreement is violence?
If you voted for Trump…
Sir, this is Lemmy?
Omg I love your name
Venelope Von Sweets gave it to me last time I went to Candy Kingdom
Hoping yours is a reference to sekiro. One of my favorite fights in the game.
You could do toxic positivity and say “any Trump voter can be redeemed. Realizing your errors of supporting trump and seeing how it affected people around you is a good start”
I haven’t spoken to my mother since Jan 19. She voted for this asshole (again). My partner is at risk because of my mother. I may never speak to her again. I still sent flowers on Mother’s Day, however.
I lost contact with some of my closest friends in college that I knew for more than a decade because of their politics and other things happening on social media. It’s sad, but my parents and I recently moved to another city in a different state so I am forgetting that friendship already.
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The reason why that mancreature is president is not because of what he did. He is only in power because of the fucking morons like that mother who gave him that power.
She is not Donald Trump.
She is worse, just like every other individual who gave such a horrible person the power to ruin the lives of millions.
He should clearly stop sending flowers… Unless they are dead, thorny and have a snarky greetings card
The democrats logo should just be a bridge that’s on fire.
Does the fact that the democrats are shitty politicians somehow negate the fact that trump is an incompetent manchild with apparently no checks and balances ?
Or are they, in fact, two entirely unrelated things that can both be true ?
An unrelated strawman is a poor distraction from you not actually addressing what is being said.
Though i suppose if you don’t actually have anything to say on the subject a strawman is better than nothing, for a given value of “better”.
Is this where I’m supposed to convince you I’m right? You won’t even talk to your mother, what chance do I have?
I think you have me mistaken for someone else.
You don’t need to prove anything, and judging by the replies so far I wouldn’t expect any level of good faith discourse so no need to worry about my expectations.
You are right, I am less serious than you are, sorry :/
I’m European so not any part of the flawed American two party set up.
I just know when people have done things which are too severe in consequence to forgive from a human perspective
Surely youll make for a perfect judge.
Why should I aspire to something like that? Looking at how inhuman, corrupt and incompetent the current judges in America seem to be under Trump I’m not surprised you regard it as a noteworthy profession.
Now if we were speaking about a country where judges are actually trying to create a better country… But alas, we are talking about America where even the police is more evil and racist than helpful on average.
The average american is trying to follow their values and be good to each other. Your rhetoric is self fulfilling.
You are responsible for the actions of people you vote for. You don’t get to drop your vote and move on. If you regret it you apologize as if you yourself had done it.
“If you don’t agree with me I’ll never talk to you again!”
Man, we can disagree on politics all day long. But I ain’t spending my free time associating with a motherfucker who wants me and people I love dead, gone, out of sight.
I imagine none of your friends or associates actively call for your elimination from existence. How many Nazi friends you keep around?
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Psychopath MAGA Nazi Traitors should be shunned by all decent, moral people. You can all swim together in your scummy cesspool of hate.
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My brother in Christ, drop the dumbassery for 5 seconds. How many friends of yours are racists against your race? How many friends you got that actively call for some part of your life that you have no control over to be made illegal? Cmon, how many you got? Mr “disagreement is good” should have a plethora of friends and family wishing you dead.
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You are advocating for policies that will literally kill innocent people, simply to indulge your hatred. Nobody is under any obligation to agree with you, or indulge your immoral beliefs or opinions.
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Why should racist Nazis who would literally kill members of their own families for their political beliefs or their life choices, expect the luxury of love from those same family members? They chose MAGA over their own families, being shunned is the price they pay for indulging their hatred.
What a fantastical scenario you’ve invented. I guess everyone has that psycho cousin who murders a minority each holiday get together. Damn these Nazis!
Because we don’t have a difference in political opinions. We have a difference in morality and ethics.
That exactly is the problem. They claim morality, but don’t have them. They claim to be faithful Christians, but Jesus himself would probably take the whip again and drive them out for so violently abuse his teachings.
I’ve heard that autism world view is more governed by values instead of which group you’re a part of. The question “describe yourself” was studied and autistic people respond with “conscientious, stubborn, eager to please, sharing and believe firmly in the pursuit of knowledge” while neurotypicals respond rather with “white Christian man from the Midwest” etc.
Honestly, to me it’s painfully obvious what Trumps game plan was going to be and there was an example of it before where he enacted the Muslim ban, had an anti Latino sentiment, inhumane detention camps and so on.
It seems to me that the voters didn’t feel included in the economy and they felt their way of life was slowly being removed by the Democrats so they voted for fascism. Instead of voting for the bad option they voted for worse because the bad option hadn’t been working for them so far.
US politics is a shitshow.
The people today who claim to be followers of Christ are the same people who 2000 years ago would be shouting “crucify him!”
Absolutely.
There are those who chose to hedge for clout - sit it out in smug virtue, while avoiding accountability for allowing him into office.
Phuck Bryce Hall, Adin Ross, Kai Cenat, Dave Portnoy and especially Andy Tate! They all played a major role in helping Trump get elected.
Don’t forget Rogan and the Paul Brothers. But they were known pieces of shit before trump 1.
i hope they suffer emotionally as well.
I got extremely yelled at for saying this about the last five presidents.
Seven
I mean, we can go back farther than that. Carter reappointing Paul Volcker and deregulating the airlines + oil/gas anti-gouging laws really fucked us.
I mean, I feel like Reagan was a watershed moment but if you go Carter you might get all the way back to Teddy R
Reaganism was definitely a new kind of politics, in the sense that he was the bellweather of the next generation of the GOP (and Dems tailing after).
But if we’re just looking for an excuse to yell at people for how they voted, I can’t think of maybe half a dozen Presidents undeserving of that response.
Every single day.
The 99% who always vote partisan have gaslit themselves into believing some incredibly silly things.
I feel you bro. It was always headed this way.
I’m not sure if Lemmy is the place where the right idiots will see this, but fully agreed.
You would be surprised how many tankies here are accelerationist and fully support trump destroying as much as he can.
Only on the Internet is fundamental responsibility questioned.
I agree that they brought it on themselves.
There are a few concepts that are getting muddled here, blameworthyness, and empathy. Both for you as the observer, and they as the subjects.
I don’t think it’s good to equate the two. They’re distinct.
Should a laid-off oil worker struggling to feed their family be worthy of empathy from a republican voter if they themselves had voted Democrat? Would you celebrate the republican proudly declaring they had no empathy?
Would Elon Musk be celebrating your announcement now? He has declared empathy to be weakness, and you’ve announced that you’ve managed to squash yours for a large swathe of the population.
People can be to blame for their own pain. Does that mean they deserve no empathy?
And, what have you done to yourself in doing so? What human part of yourself have you killed or let whither to get to where you are now?
It’s easy to be empathetic to people who are like yourself. It’s more difficult to be empathetic to those different.
Regardless of blameworthyness, I don’t think we should be proud of our ability to feel no empathy for others. It may be the case, but that’s a personal weakness.
People can be to blame for their own pain. Does that mean they deserve no empathy?
If they are on the side of evil, gleefully snickering as brown people are loaded onto planes, then yes.
If they don’t want to feel the ire of our burning contempt for their low-trust, anti-social behavior, then they shouldn’t be doing it. Be on the side of good. Learn to be pro-community, or perish.
This doesn’t mean I want them to starve. Though, I wouldn’t be strictly opposed to some system whereby welfare is stripped from people who voted against it. Some people just gotta learn from consequences.
You’re still muddling concepts.
Someone can be blameworthy. That’s one thing.
Then bad things can happen to them, and those things might be just. They might DESERVE those things. That’s another thing.
Can you feel empathy towards that person, that’s a third thing still.
I can’t stress enough: these three concepts are distinct.
It’s also worth pointing out how lacking empathy actually trends towards horrible actions, and that those horrible actions often produce reactions baffling to the empathy less and obvious to those with empathy.
Honestly, what you’re describing sounds a LOT like the lines out of Israel Re: Palestinians. The royal “they” support Hamas? Time for consequences, or they’ll never learn. Oh, now they hate us even more? The generational cycle of hatred continues? How could they not graciously accept our lessons?
Like… It’s the obvious outcome. Intentionally thrust people into poverty to teach them a lesson?
I understand where it comes from, the Trump stuff. I get it. There is no justice. It’s FRUSTRATING.
One can dream of justice without lusting for punishment
Don’t confuse a thirst for justice with a disdain for empathy. Killing your own empathy ISN’T justice, and the only thing you’ve done is made yourself lesser. Send not to know for whom the bell tolls
Time for consequences, or they’ll never learn.
Are you disagreeing with… human pattern recognition?
I’m sure what I’ve said sounds like a lot of things; there are a lot of people out there who lie.
What I’ve described is pretty 1-to-1. If republicans are upset they lost their welfare because they were detractors from welfare, you know what we should say? “Damn, shouldn’t have voted against it then, stupid.”
Don’t confuse a thirst for justice with a disdain for empathy.
See, the problem is you keep talking about empathy in the abstract. It’s very confusing. What is it, exactly, you want people to do? Because what we’re talking about is socially punishing fascists for being fascists. That is another 1-to-1.
I’ll lay an accusation: it sounds like you’re giving a rhetorical defense for bad behavior—and thus enabling it, very naughty—by trying to lean on people’s general discomfort with being too mean.
So, let’s be specific. Trump spent a lot of campaign time talking about illegals, he’s since mobilized ICE as the American secret police, and grandpa voted for him. How should we treat grandpa?
Yes, I am disagreeing with human pattern recognition. People absolutely do not work towards their rational self interests. Ayn Rand is/was wrong. People have been voting against their own self interests for decades. Centuries. People ALREADY are reaping the results of their actions. What do you think leopardsatemyface is? How many of those stories conclude with “still a trump supporter tho”?
What is empathy? I don’t have some wild definition. Cambridge is fine “the ability to share someone else’s feelings or experiences by imagining what it would be like to be in that person’s situation.”
Set aside any moral justification for empathy if you want, it’s not even required to make the case for why you should have it.
If you want to change someone’s behaviors, ESPECIALLY ones that are from your perspective irrational, you need to understand why they’re doing them in the first place. Empathy is how you can understand that.
If you don’t have empathy (Like Ayn Rand, for example) you’ll end up with a wildly inaccurate model for someones behaviors (as in, they’re working towards their rational self interests), and as a result your strategies for making a difference is going to be ineffective.
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle”
STRICTLY from a PRAGMATIC angle, empathy is a critical tool.
- Supporting literal nazis is nearly different than supporting terrorists out of desperation because every non-violent attempt at asserting basic human rights is met with murder and collective punishment.
- Paradox of Tolerance. They have violated the social contract and gleefully supported every attempt to harm others and are trying really hard to trigger mass murder of unarmed civilians. Give an inch and they’ll create about Holocaust and/or wipe complex life from the Earth with nuclear fire. There’s no safe way to empathize with that.
Empathy and tolerance aren’t the same thing.
You should not tolerate intolerance.
All of that, ALL OF IT, is completely tangential to the concept of empathy.
I get it, you’ve got a lot of hate. You SHOULD hate Nazis. It’s an uncomfortable challenge to have the capacity for empathy for someone you hate.
And like, I don’t understand how people can’t recognize the value of empathy even for a strictly pragmatic purposes. A byproduct of people with strong empathy skills is they’re good at predicting what someone is going to do.
Honestly, what are you afraid of? Are you afraid if you mentally explore someone else’s situation from that persons perspective, feel the way they feel… That what? YOU’LL suddenly realize YOU’RE actually a Nazi too? Whoopsie Poopsie? Give yourself a little more credit than that.
Anyhow, you and Elon should go for beers sometime and just agree with eachother all night about how you shouldn’t empathize with people.
Edit: also, for the record, the right wing appeals to the paradox of tolerance to justify what they do to undocumented people. They broke the law, the social contract, so the law doesn’t apply to them (insert hillbilly laugh).
Do you want to institute change, or do you just want to give trump voters an ‘I told you so’ because it feels good?
Not extending sympathy is how we got into this shithole to begin with. You cannot convince over trump voters with facts and logic. The best you can do is wait for leopards to eat their faces, or pacify their egos until they are emotionally invested enough to vote for someone other than trump. Trump voters do not respond to reason. But they will respond by voting trump again if they feel alienated.
Yes, it’s shitty and they deserve so much worse. However, we deserve better, and we won’t get anything better until we coddle trump voters into doing the right thing.
Paradox of tolerance.
Lol,
First of all, it’s spelled ‘paragon’. And second, if we condone shit heads they’ll choose to be less bigoted because they’re clearly and historically scrupulous. That’s why we must capitulate - because of their fair, peaceful, and rational idealogrogy… Wait, BRB, I need to feed the brain worms and they are starting to look emaciated.
What an absolute twat you’d have to be to suggest something so unimaginably proposterous.
🤡
