• UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    E.V.s tend to be pricier than comparable gas cars

    Only really true in the United States. On the global market, some of the cheapest cars in the world are EVs. The Chang Li micro-EV with air conditioning and solar charging can be purchased for as little as $2k. The compact BYD Seagull sells for around $10k

    Problem is… it’s illegal to import these vehicles to the United States, thanks to protectionist policies championed by our “business friendly” Congress and China-hostile State Department.

    • satanmat@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Business friendly *

      *terms and conditions apply- only available to us companies who can bribe Er lobby congress

    • Steve
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      2 months ago

      That’s because the Chinese government is heavily subsidizing EVs, explicitly to monopolize global EV and battery manufacturing. The US reaction isn’t great. Instead we should be doing the same. Our EV’s should only cost $15K because ford gets paid $30K by the government for each one they make.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        That’s because the Chinese government is heavily subsidizing EVs

        What are the subsidy rates on these vehicles? How much should the market value of a Seagull be?

        Our EV’s should only cost $15K because ford gets paid $30K by the government

        Do you honestly believe these compact Chinese EVs cost $45k/ea to make, when they’re less than half the size of an American Sedan and with far less administrative overhead?

        • dnick@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          Seems like you missed something there, op didn’t mention how much the China models actually cost. Only that they’re subsidized and that we should also subsidize

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Only that they’re subsidized

            They claimed the vehicle was subsidized without pointing to any subsidies.

            In the US, you can at least put your finger on the $7500 EV tax credit. With China, its just a bunch of handwaving mixed with incredulity that vehicles can be produced so cheaply.

            • Steve
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              2 months ago

              Subsidizing costs can come in a number of ways. Not just to customers at the point of sale. They could have subsidized labor, materials, patent licensing, and tax breaks. All artificially lowering production costs, to lower prices, to create a Chinese dominant position in the global EV market. Because we know that’s what the Chinese government wants. That’s what the “Belt and Road Initiative” is.

              • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                They could have subsidized labor, materials, patent licensing, and tax breaks.

                You can play this game in any country by pointing to the publicly available infrastructure and utilities. China having a cheap, robust education and transportation system with low cost public utilities and an efficient legal bureaucracy isn’t a subsidy, its an efficiency.

                that’s what the Chinese government wants

                That’s what every country wants. You think the Germans and the Brits don’t want Volkswagons or Aston Martins to be the dominant global automotive brand?

                That’s what the “Belt and Road Initiative” is.

                Claiming the BRI as a subsidy is exactly what I’m talking about. They’re building value-add infrastructure to reduce the natural economic friction of trade and travel. That’s a material improvement to the market, not a state-sponsored loss per unit of production.

                • Steve
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                  2 months ago

                  China having a cheap, robust education and transportation system with low cost public utilities and an efficient legal bureaucracy isn’t a subsidy, its an efficiency.

                  None of those are subsidies, or what I ment.

                  That’s what every country wants. You think the Germans and the Brits don’t want Volkswagons or Aston Martins to be the dominant global automotive brand?

                  No. They’re certainly not acting like it. Not doing anything serous to support that goal.

                  Claiming the BRI as a subsidy

                  Not what I did. It’s an economic global power play, to replace the US and USD as “The” world power. Subsidies are just part of the plan.

        • prodigalsorcerer@lemmy.ca
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          2 months ago

          What are the subsidy rates on these vehicles? How much should the market value of a Seagull be?

          I’m Europe, the BYD Dolphin starts at 23k Euros, so that’s probably pretty close to the nonsubsidized price.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Idk if you can compare a Civic with an Accord and call the $4000 difference a subsidy.

            But if we’re being generous and ignoring the Euro/USD currency spread, you’re still talking about a $7000 subsidy. Roughly what Americans give out in EV credits. Except its for a car that’s still cheaper than its American equivalent.

        • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net
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          2 months ago

          In addition to subsidies, part of the reason the Chinese EVs cost so little is due to how much less workers are paid there.

  • Wahots@pawb.social
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    2 months ago

    I like things like this. I was able to find some pretty solid used EVs. Still going to hold off as my current car is fine and I mostly use bikes or transit, but this is good to know for a someday thing :)