We need more good suicidal guys with guns to stop bad suicidal guys with guns.
Checking in sir! /S
Oof
Another example of:
A gun is way more likely to be used on a member of your household than in defence of that household.
Owning Guns Puts People in Your Home at Greater Risk of Being Killed, New Study Shows
The Myth Behind Defensive Gun Ownership
People in homes with handguns more likely to be shot dead, major study finds
That makes sense because of mishandling, mismanagement, and… Wanting to die sometimes…
Most flight incidents happen on departure and arrival so of course most gun mishaps happen at home.
Guess what I’m saying is it all makes sense one way or the other.
I got downvoted real bad when I pointed this out to someone who said “making guns illegal just takes them away from people who need to defend themselves.”
The defense excuse of gun ownership is a myth. It causes way more harm than good.
That aside: the easier it is for good guys to get a gun, the easier it is for bad guys too.
And: where does that idea of a good guy stopping a bad guy come from even? If the bad guy is the better shoot, he still wins the fight. If he catches the good guy by surprise (which is likely given that bad acts are an action and not a reaction), he also has the upper hand.
So more guns solves exactly nothing, it only increases risks everywhere.
Sadly. Gun nuts don’t want to hear any of this. The U.S. gun culture is truly obscene.
Not a gun nut. But these studies don’t actually test any hypothesis about defensive gun use.
It is easily probable that it is simply the case that people obtain firearms for defense against an existing threat or are the threat themselves( i.e are susceptible to far greater violent events than the norm). In order to test that guns actually are ineffective in self-defense you need to compare it to actual incidents of violence towards the gun user.
Do you know why we don’t have such studies in the United States? The firearms lobby has ensured that it is prohibited from being researched.
Yes, because the CDC is the only source of academic research in the US. Activist talking points are unfortunately rarely accurate. The Dickey Amendment reduced research into gun violence, but under no circumstances did it eliminate; it’s also been changed since it was first passed.
The real reason why gun violence research is often poor quality is the same as why most social research is poor quality: high variability, unaccounted variables, differences in interpretation of questionnaire’s, unreliability of self-reporting, and the fact that most studies are conducted by parties interested in a specific result.
Thanks for the insightful response, those are legitimate points. I was confused by your first sentence and presume that was meant sarcastically?
Removed by mod
Because it’s just another scare tactic. We know there are some dangers having firearms around.
That’s why we want to make sure the goverment isn’t the only people allowed to have them. First comes registration, then confiscation, then the tyranny.
Andy Weaver, the Branch Dividians, the Black Panthers, Native Americans, Mexico, the Philippines, Hawaiians, Germany, Japan, Spain, England, Canada, and Italy have all resisted the US government with arms.
But OK, you’re going to keep 'em in line with you’re pew pew pew. Meanwhile that danger that you acknowledge is real.
STFU. Gun ownership should be strictly limited and controlled. Fuck y’all that don’t like it.
Brilliant counter argument, bravo.
Bro got very upset someone else has a different opinion
STFU
You are awesome.
Thanks. Loser.
Buddy, the “government” isn’t scared of you and your buddies LARPing in the woods cheap AR-15s and tacticool gear.
Hamas demonstrated that the most advanced military occupation in the world can not stop a determined people from fighting back.
… course, Israel is demonstrating that the most advanced military occupation in the world will have its unlimited bloody revenge, so-
Hamas was also born of generations of blood feuds and escalating revenge. Generational shit.
Compare that to… (checks notes) wanting people to get vaccinated before going into public during a worldwide pandemic.
Well yeah, I don’t mean to demean Hamas by comparing them to American rightoids lol
Legalize doctor assisted suicide. Let people end their lives with dignity.
Bruh I’d vote for this
Who would use it when they have pro-gun assisted suicide?
For doctor-assisted suicide, you need to be over 18 anywhere it’s available.
But for pro-gun suicide, children only need a “responsible gun owner” in the house with a poorly secured firearm, thanks to their staunch opposition of safe storage laws and need to be 3 second from a gun at all times.
For doctor-assisted suicide, you generally need to be terminally ill first and undergo a psychological evaluation to ensure you’re mentally capable of making an informed decision.
But for pro-gun suicide, you can kill yourself without even the most token effort to cure your mental health problems, thanks to their staunch opposition to red flag laws. Their only requirement is “not a felon” and they even ensure you can get around it with a private sale loophole.
For doctor-assisted suicide, you usually need the approval of two doctors, both of which have years of medical school to pay off and neither of which your sleazy insurance company will want to pay for.
But for pro-gun suicide, a cheap handgun can be yours for under $200, because that’s what someones life is worth to them.
For doctor-assisted suicide, you will usually have a minimum waiting period between your first and second requests, to ensure you’re not making an impulsive decision.
But for pro-gun suicide, you can do it on a whim. Even if you haven’t surrounded yourself with super cool guns already, the waiting period is typically only a few days and if you’re lucky enough to live in a pro-gun state, there might be no minimum waiting period at all.
For doctor-assisted suicide, the medication is very deliberately dispensed to ensure there is no danger to anybody else.
But for pro-gun suicide, take all the people you want with you when you go. Family members, a room full of terrified children, a bunch of minorities some Discord channel insisted were the reason your life sucks – the pro-gun community don’t even pretend to care, let alone do something about it.
Ultimately, doctors just can’t compete with the cheap, accessible, fast and poorly considered suicides offered by American gun laws. Why else do you think they’ve skyrocketed?
Because it’s definitely not because terminally ill people are deciding to end their life without the dignity of keeping their brains inside their skull – an idea that is so thoroughly stupid that I’m having a hard time believing your intention is anything more than simply making the statistics around firearms look better.
Late stage capitalism is alienating. Many people are faced with the reality that there’s little point to live when your only purpose is to be a wage slave for billionaires. There are no prospects of owning a home or being comfortable ever unless you’re born into wealth or willing to exploit others and put them into bad situations just so you can have a bit of comfort.
And if you get behind, there’s the stigma among conservatives about getting a helping hand. Bootstraps and all that, it’s sad.
No, othering people is alienating. And this is by no means a partisan issue because almost everybody does it.
Democrats: “it’s the Republicans’ fault, they’re evil”
Republicans: “it’s the Democrats’ fault, they’re evil”
Communists: “it’s rich people’s fault, they’re evil”
Capitalists: “it’s poor people’s fault, they’re lazy”
Women: “it’s men’s fault, they’re evil”
Men: “it’s women’s fault, they’re evil”The more you keep blaming other people for everything that’s wrong with the world, the more you end up isolating yourself and retreating into your own bubble. You might think things would be better if you only spend with people who think like you and who validate your complaints and feelings, but in fact, that only serves to increase your alienation because it increases the gap between you and those “others”.
message of blaming other groups as problematic.
Blames other people.
Oh trust me, I’m guilty of this as well.
It’s been about a quarter century since I’ve spent meaningful time with a billionaire, and I’d wager that few here have been that close. What does alienating ourselves from the world’s ~2,700 billionaires ,who already lock the world out and work to escape to other planets by explaining out why they’re the problem cost us, exactly?
Remember folks, don’t criticise Nazis - you’ll alienate yourself from them, and that’s bad.
-ism’s
Gesundheit
A lot of people talking about means seem to be side stepping the fact that life is getting harder and that’s probably why suicides are going up.
The means do matter, but the means aren’t driving the wave we’ve seen this decade. Most suicides are finances and loneliness related. And even if someone does survive an attempt using another mean, the “help” is usually involuntary institutionalization which will make your life even worse. Even getting a driver’s license is harder after that.
Not to discredit the means, I just think we need to take a hard look at everything surrounding said means. Society needs to fail someone 1,000 times before they pick up the final societal failure.
This post brought to you by a test drive of a proposed Texas “don’t say gun” law.
This is why I hate talking about guns online lmao. “oh you want to look at the big picture? You must be a republican gun fucker”
Shut up
Dude you were too scared to even say gun which is why your post was so awkward and why I even responded.
Scared to say gun? I was using the language, “means,” because the rest of the comments were using that, and I literally referred to a gun as a societal failure.
It’s a top level post so it isn’t based on the “other posts”. Trying to use different words and phrases for gun made for a very weird sounding post that made it sound like you were trying to avoid using the word for no reason. 🤷
I was specifically referring to the comments where they posted the article called “means matter.”
I figured me referencing other comments at the very beginning of mine would make that obvious but I guess not
There’s this thing called a reply button. Nevermind, I see you’ve found it.
Out of context (which it is, as a top level post) your post reads like a strange attempt to not say “gun” and that’s why I added the sarcastic remark in response which appears to have rustled your jimmies so much that here we are still exchanging posts for some reason.
“Means Matter”
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/
Reducing access to more lethal means of suicide reduces deaths by suicide in a population. The data on this is unequivocal.
That’s because the majority of suicidal crises are spontaneous and of absurdly short duration, on the order of around 20 minutes. If you interrupt the process between decision and action, people survive. And 90% of people who survive a suicide attempt never go on to die by suicide at any future point in their lives.
Prioritize your health y’all, these are no doubt strange times.
There’s less and less reason to be alive. What the fuck is there to live for?
I enjoy spending time with my friends I’ve known for 40+ years. Several of us were out last evening.
I try hard to focus on my personal “bubble”. I always vote, yet, know I can’t fix the system. I recycle and drive a small 4-cylinder Honda, yet, I know I can’t fix climate change. Knowing I do even the smallest things allows me to try to keep my personal “bubble” closed to endless bullshit.
What are you talking about?! There’s so much more profit you can generate for the shareholders!!
But if you end it all now, think of all the debt you’re missing out on!!
Those people just need a Good Guy With a Gun to kill them before they killed themselfs!
This is by miles the worst firearm issue America has. Naive laws banning types of guns, magazine capacity, all that, do nothing for nearly half of all gun deaths.
Example after example shows that so much as inconveniencing a suicide is often enough to stop them. Guns are point and click. They are literally the most convenient way to surely die. This is why I didn’t own a gun until I was 39, and most were bought recently at 50 or so. I wasn’t mentally stable enough.
And if anyone wants to come in here screaming, “BAN all the things!”, just don’t. The 2A exists and the courts uphold it as an individual right, those are facts and not open to argument. And besides, I don’t hear anyone screaming about a handgun ban. Long guns, shotguns/AR-15’s/whatever, are something like 4% of gun deaths. Let’s focus on reducing the most harm.
So what now? We somehow test people to practice their rights? There are plenty for whom I’d like to yank the 1A and the franchise. But I’m sorry, people are free to speak and vote in this country.
And if we impose some sort of test, what’s the criteria, who administers it, who judges the results? What if one passes and later becomes suicidal?
I already know the answer to that one. Gun laws have always been, and always will be, racist. Don’t take my word! Please look around for yourself on this one.
And don’t start me with red flag laws, I know exactly how those would work out. Imagine vengeful exes, modern Brown Shirts, cops you pissed off, fuck me, even neighbors that are annoyed with you. While we’re at it, let’s just chunk the 4A right out the window.
Someone invariably starts talking mental health. And I’m 100% down with that, just as I am some form of universal health care. But here’s the thing with the mentally ill, they often don’t know they’re sick or are too sick to go get help, even if it’s free.
This is one of the most intractable problems in America, and I don’t have a clue what can be done about it.
Anyone? I’m listening.
Yea, we definitely need a two-pronged (or more) approach to tackle it in the US. Mental health would go a loooooong way for both the suicides and mass shootings.
Red flag laws are just fine when written correctly. That’s a ridiculous fear-mongering point. Not all of them are the same nor have the same agencies calling any shots.
You don’t have a clue because you’re being a pessemist about proven impacts. Red flag laws that target domestic violence and clinical depression have demonstrable impact on the problem. It’s intractible because people like you refuse to accept that a step in the right direction is better than nothing. Your attitude is quite pathetic, and you are part of the problem when you go on about how nothing can be done.
Started out helpful, went downhill fast.
Do you not see the potential for abuse of red flag laws? FFS, teenagers get people “swatted” and you want trigger happy cops coming into the home of an “armed and dangerous man” to remove his guns!? Best case, only your dog gets shot. We liberals acknowledge that cops act as judge, jury and executioner, and yet, for some cases, they’re all good?
20-years ago I had a gf drop a protective order on me. Because I dumped her. Didn’t fight it. Big mistake. When the cops didn’t arrest me on the spot, her and her boss fabricated a story claiming I violated the order. Got arrested for that one! Thank god mom was able to bum me $1,000 for a lawyer to get that charge tossed. No evidence, nothing, because it didn’t happen. Still spent a night in jail and had to fight it.
20-years after that, my ex-wife took a clue from that story.
“Get out of this house!”
“I own this house too, not leaving, you can’t make me.”
“I’ll get a restraining order.”
“Good luck. I’ve never hit you or even threatened violence.”
“I’ll tell them you did.”
And she did. She wanted that over my head for the child custody battle. Again, thrown out, but $8,000 and 4.5-years later I got my small children back last week. (And got married!)
Call me a pessimist. 🤷🏻♂️
Now I’m down to talk implementation, mainly that the local police have no say in it. But where are we summoning up the service to deal with such things? I’m all about listening to these ideas, but there are devils in the details.
The potential for abuse is not a reason against the whole plan. Or should we kick you off the internet because it allows terrible people to communicate?
Your entire general attitude is a problem.
I am in a similar situation with my guns. I have two antique long guns. They’re locked up, in the crawl space, and I don’t keep any ammo in my house.
I have depression and I don’t trust myself not to use my guns to kill myself. For me, the inconvenience of accessing them and obtaining ammo feels like a safe compromise.
I agree that this is an enormous problem with no easy solutions.
Good for you! Keep it that way until long after you feel more sane. Might take years, might never happen, but you know yourself. Keep on keeping on!
And if anyone wants to come in here screaming, “BAN all the things!”, just don’t.
vs
This is one of the most intractable problems in America, and I don’t have a clue what can be done about it.
The 2nd amendment needs to go on the dustbin of history. I’m not saying people can’t own guns, but the right to should disappear.
“But that’s not realistic”, you might say. Sure, it’s not going to happen any time soon but I think the US will get there eventually.
Maybe I agree, maybe I don’t. Not 100% sure myself. But adding a constitutional amendment is unthinkable ATM. We couldn’t pass an amendment making every 2nd Saturday of March “Chocolate Chip Cookie Day”.
What I’m getting at is this: There is zero use talking about dumping the 2A, and neither your opinion nor mine will matter for decades to come. That discussion is off the table. And that’s not fatalism, it’s reality.
So again; Guns and suicide. Hell we do right now today?
All I got is health care, education, raising the poor from poverty, all the things conservatives won’t let us have. Feeling so hopeless on this front, reaching out to anyone that has so much as a baby step.
99% of our gun issues are due to intractable poverty and inequality. 50 years ago we didn’t have these issues because Corporations were not so overbalanced. There were perks to many jobs because taxes were very high on profits.
Fix the extreme poverty, housing, and take-home pay and most of these social issue will disappear. The rich and powerful ( Corpos and people) want people to give up rights because their problem is about control more than money.
Giving up rights won’t change any suicides because there is no more hope in the US anymore.
50 years ago we didn’t have these issues
This is where I’m coming from. Guns were a non-issue when I was young. I understand it’s impossible for young folks to experience the past, but it wasn’t like this. At all.
It’s like this now, though. Living in the past doesn’t do anything to protect those suffering today.
The SCOTUS needs to revisit the issue. Heller was wrongly decided on the basis of shitacularly poor reasoning. There is no other solution. Unfortunately it’s not going to happen any time soon. The plus side is that as Dobbs showed us, the court has no problem overturning long established precedent when it suits them.
I’m also not convinced that red flag laws can’t work. They just have to be designed with a ton of safeguards in place. I think we should at least try them before deciding that they can’t work. I believe there are already a handful of them in place at the state level, but I could be wrong as I don’t follow the issue closely.
Here’s a thought: gun ownership is not a right and it was a mistake for that to have been put in the Constitution.
If for the sake of argument we determine that it is not a right, then we can make some actual change. We heavily restrict ownership, prosecute those who have them after a grace period, stop sales of ammo to citizens, heavily monitor borders and ports of entry for firearms, and demilitarize the police.
In addition, we invest in education, social programs, mental health, and improve wages, housing costs, and food costs for everyone.
Instead of all that, we’re going to do nothing and send more money into the military.
And don’t start me with red flag laws, I know exactly how those would work out. Imagine vengeful exes, modern Brown Shirts, cops you pissed off, fuck me, even neighbors that are annoyed with you. While we’re at it, let’s just chunk the 4A right out the window.
Ya know you mostly had me up until here. Red flag laws - when your neighbor becomes despondent they should just leave the firearms around? When some kook starts waving his pistol around at the 7-11, you think they’re keeping and bearing arms responsibly? I don’t. Red Flag Laws are necessary.
https://jalopnik.com/stop-leaving-unsecured-guns-in-your-cars-1850268670
This nation needs to be responsible with the 440 MILLION firearms it’s accumulated if they’re going to keep them.
I don’t think it’s intractable I think it’s unenforced and under-reported.
Gun laws have always been, and always will be, racist.
Yes. Because they’re all based on the original racist law, the Second Amendment.
https://truthout.org/articles/the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery/
Gun laws are the reason I can’t take that easy way out. Not cause it’s too difficult, I easily could, but I don’t want my legacy to be a row in a database used to push gun control laws I disagree with.
Hell man, something like 47% of gun deaths are suicide. If that isn’t getting us talking and taking action, your name on row 47,445 for 2023’s Excel sheet ain’t gonna matter.
Hang in there and fight the good fight. Fight useless gun laws that only cost political capital, fight for laws that might help us all.
We need people like you and keeping your death out a database is not helping. You’re alive, you can help, now. So let’s talk about it.
And if you ever want to talk, shit gets that bad, I’ve been there, done that. DM me and you got my email and phone.
And if anyone wants to come in here screaming, “BAN all the things!”, just don’t. The 2A exists and the courts uphold it as an individual right, those are facts and not open to argument.
Repeal and replace 2A.
Explain how a new Constitutional amendment is passed. This is high school stuff. Lay it out for us in case others don’t know.
Next, give us a plan to move forward, even if that plans spans decades.
I am honestly listening.
Not saying it’s easy or something that can be done soon. Just saying that a lot of things will change in this country once the silent gen and the boomers are gone.
Lift Your Head Up High (And Blow Your Brains Out).
You don’t hear a good bloodhound gang reference often.
Unprecedented… so far.
I mean, at this point the only thing not increasing in price bullets, so I get it.
This guy hasn’t bought ammo recently.
Maybe you can ask them to sell you an individual one or see if they give out free samples.
Eh, article is from 2021.
I can give you more current ones but they’re all from gun magazines, and I’m not sure if that’s allowed here. But I suggest you just google “ammunition prices rising” if you want to know.
Unless you prefer to keep your prejudiced opinion, I guess.
my own prejudiced opinion.
Lol, okay.
Yeah, naw, I don’t keep close track of ammo prices, but it was my understanding that the pandemic saw prices spike, but that they’ve leveled off (and started to come down, though only minimally) since the “pandemic wound down”.
Though, this isn’t something I keep my finger to the pulse of, so if you have more recent info, I’d appreciate it (feel free to DM if you’re hesitant to post as comment).
Yeah, according to what I’ve heard, this hasn’t been the case for ammo, whose prices continued to rise in 2022 and 2023, apparently due to massive production shortages (Ukraine might have something to do with it). Like I said, just do the google search I suggested, and you’ll find plenty of articles discussing this.
Either way, the claim that bullets are the only thing that hasn’t gone up in price is definitely fake news.
Inflation is getting out of hand /s
Well, it is an efficient manner.
The ultimate “my body, my choice.” Guess Republicans will now favor gun control, after all.
